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MrWood

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Oh sure, we get them from the fatties and the single mommies
my experience is quite different...

fatties typically look down and refuse eye contact, compared to HB8+ to which I always get smiles, eyes and hello's
 

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stormrider

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So in other words, it’s because dudes are chasing. But that’s more so because of having a weak mindset/frame, and I’d wager that it’s more attributable to simps rather than PUAs tbh. PUAs at least have some form of strength in that they’re not gonna bend over backwards for a woman and will accept a loss when it happens. Your typical lost boy simp would likely have a much harder time getting over her and would keep trying in an attempt to ‘win her over’. Those 2000ish era PUAs didn’t advocate for that. And whether anyone here wants to admit it or not, we all have some similarities between ‘us’ and ‘them’. The whole manosphere really. Anyone aware of the nature of women (the dynamics in regards to how you shouldn’t be a supplicating wimp, how you should always strive to be better, how you shouldn’t be affected by a woman, etc. ) all have some overlap whether it’s the PUAs and MGTOWS or dudes here and incels or guys over at Roosh V vs Rollo’s blog. I don’t really follow any of those at all tbh, I just know of them in relation to us based off of other users referencing them on here, but I’m pretty sure to some extent we all share some commonalities between these different ‘groups’.

Interestingly enough, when you ask most women why ‘people are so much more depressed’ and suicidal than ever before, and why a lot more people have anxiety than ever before, etc. many of them will say it’s because of social media. A lot of them do have the self-awareness that it’s bloating their ego up but will admit that it’s addicting and so they stay on anyway. Whenever you look outside, you don’t really see too many guys out there ‘cold approaching’, and many of these younger gals have their egos inflated to the point of no return even though these younger chicks don’t really get cold approached like women back before. At most maybe cat calls, but I haven’t seen that happen in forever lol.
Good point, I think @Amante Silvestre touched on it.

15 years ago a man had to build his roots in social circles and rise to power and attain social acuity. With it, develop a frame of reference that would allow him to qualify women.

With the invention of social media, guys Became lazy and skipped the step of social power creation. So what you have now is a bunch of manchild simps who don’t really have the social acuity to atttact women because all they know is spamming women. Spamming women in the clubs and OLD.

The right way to do it is to play the game like an politician. Developing social skills in environments with a lot of women in it. And rising in power and influence. This will autocorrect your frame and give you the “manual” as pook would say.

Inside your brain is both a king and a simp. Your brain knows how to be both. If you are not a dominant man of any social environment, it is rare for you brain to allow you to access the king frame. Unless you have really high self esteem.

What guys do is they try to skip the entire rites of passage of cultivating social circles and connections, aka access to resources and women, and just spam approach.

But their brains refuse to give them the manual and they end up as simps/puas.

I’ve preached about this for years and years. As soon as I took over a tribe that had women in it, it was as if I became self actualized. I magically started to carry the king frame and automatically qualified and dismissed every woman. It wasn’t even a conscious thing. My frame was completely embedded into my presence and every woman submitted to me right away nonverbally.

I even carried this frame into the night clubs. It was just dismiss dismiss dismiss for all the entitlement girls have going on. And when I hooked, it was hard. Like total supplication and admiration. Make out on the spot.

Seems like only a few men in this forum know what I am talking about. Probably because most guys skipped the whole “become a dominant leader of tribes” part when growing up.

It’s a rites of passage that you cannot skip if you want to access your highest frame. Unless of course, you have an incredible sense of sovereignty.
 
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user252009

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What guys do is they try to skip the entire rites of passage of cultivating social circles and connections, aka access to resources and women, and just spam approach.

But their brains refuse to give them the manual and they end up as simps/puas.
Guys are just getting sick of it, because females don't have to do jack shiet to get the guys, while guys have to kick their own ass - more and more, to even get a shot - screw that. That's why MGTOW is growing - in today's environment, fewer and fewer guys have time to get into these social-focused circles of interest (if they're not interested in those activities by default, which many of us aren't), so we'd rather spend that time on our own passions, making more money and live a more independent and happier life.
 

stormrider

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Guys are just getting sick of it, because females don't have to do jack shiet to get the guys, while guys have to kick their own ass - more and more, to even get a shot - screw that. That's why MGTOW is growing - in today's environment, fewer and fewer guys have time to get into these social-focused circles of interest (if they're not interested in those activities by default, which many of us aren't), so we'd rather spend that time on our own passions, making more money and live a more independent and happier life.
The problem with MTGTOW is that they try to separate women and life.

Women and life are one. I view them as resources.

So does the rest of the world.

The same way I seek to make money and develop professional connections so that I can rise in power and status, I seek access to women as they are a part of resources.

The same way I wouldn’t complain about how hard it is to rise to the top of the corporate or political world, I wouldn’t complain about how hard it is to gain access to women.

I don’t expect women to love me like my mother did. This is where the bitterness comes from.

If you just view women as part of the environment that goes for guys in power ( a game you are already playing anyway), then there is really no separation.

Become the most fit guy at the gym -bang, there’s women to give you attention. The best dancer at the clubs- every woman wants to take you home. The most popular man in town - there’s a bunch of women wanting to go along for the ride. The top guy in the company - every intern chick wants to bang you.

Unless you work in the tech field, there’s always going to be females in your immediate environment who reward the dominant guys. High school never ended.
 

zekko

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When I was in high school I had over 100 girls crushing on me.
That is not the average guy's experience, however. If most men "pay no attention to women", most women won't even notice. You have to be on their radar to begin with. Either because of looks, status, or as you say, dominance.

"Game" and cold approaching isn't for guys who have 100 girls crushing on them. It's for guys who aren't getting enough options and are wanting to choose some of the women they are dating. Because the ones who are coming to them aren't coming frequent enough or aren't high quality enough.
 
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stormrider

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That is not the average guy's experience, however. If most men "pay no attention to women", most women won't even notice. You have to be on their radar to begin with. Either because of looks, status, or as you say, dominance.

"Game" and cold approaching isn't for guys who have 100 girls crushing on them. It's for guys who aren't getting enough options and are wanting to choose some of the women they are dating. Because the ones who are coming to them aren't coming frequent enough or aren't high quality enough.
Game and cold approaching is actually a "marketed" option for guys who aren’t getting enough options. What I mean by that is the clever PUA marketers found a demographic that they could sell snake oil too.

Pay attention to guys who do well cold approaching and it is still the guys who have 100 options.

That’s what the meat market is actually for.

The dudes lacking options would have their self esteem killed by the lack of positive feedback loop in the unforgiving meat market.

The right option for guys who lack options is actually social circles/environments that have a lot of women in it.

There, the women are less picky, you can easily elevate your status through reputation, and you would internalize female behavior through the process of osmosis.

Simply existing around women will erase a lot of your social awkwardness.

It would also make you less needy. Neediness is perpetuated by the fact that we live in big cities and no longer exist small clusters. It can crate an isolated feeling.

Basically, all the benefits for middling guys who lack options exist in social environments that has a lot of women. The barrier of entry is a lot lower.

But what do these guys do instead? They go to the clubs, accumulate hundreds of rejections, become disillusioned and jaded, and end up joining the priesthood, aka MTGTOW.

Don’t worry middling status guys – nature didn’t forget about you. Nature created a perfect design.

Within a tribe, you can climb the social ladder through credibility, leadership, and reputation. It does most of the work for you. And the older you get and the more credibility and merit you accumulate, the more social circles will open up for you. Soon you would be connected to tons of circles and invited to tons of social events where all you would have to do is warm approaches.

I figured it all out so that you guys don’t have to.

The meat market is for guys who have meat. It is very unforgiving. And the amount of time a guy takes to have just enough success where he can internalize what women are all about, he could have easily accomplished it in 1/100th the time in social circles.

That’s how quickly a guy can internalize women in a social environment full of women. It takes like a month.

But meat market game will take years and years, maybe even decades. By the time he hits pay dirt, he will be worn out and jaded.
 

zekko

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The right option for guys who lack options is actually social circles/environments that have a lot of women in it.
I agree there's a lot of "snake oil" to the PUA stuff. There are guys who swear by it though. A lot of it is weird, but a guy with limited options might do well playing the numbers game, or by putting himself out there more. I've always thought how well a guy does varies greatly by the individual - depends on his SMV and what his particular sticking points are.

Social circles are very good, for the reasons you describe. If guys are wanting to have some sort of super fantasy harem though, I don't know if they are going to get it through social circle. Not that I really care. I'm not going to feel sorry for a guy because he thinks he's entitled to 10 HB9s and he can only find a few HB7s to be hot for him.

Also, to have a very large social circle (or a lot of different social circles), you're going to have to spend nearly all your free time socializing. That might work well for some people, but not for others. I was willing to socialize heavily when I was in my 20s, but as I got older I realized I didn't care to put that much time into it.
 

mrgoodstuff

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Good point, I think @Amante Silvestre touched on it.

15 years ago a man had to build his roots in social circles and rise to power and attain social acuity. With it, develop a frame of reference that would allow him to qualify women.

With the invention of social media, guys Became lazy and skipped the step of social power creation. So what you have now is a bunch of manchild simps who don’t really have the social acuity to atttact women because all they know is spamming women. Spamming women in the clubs and OLD.

The right way to do it is to play the game like an politician. Developing social skills in environments with a lot of women in it. And rising in power and influence. This will autocorrect your frame and give you the “manual” as pook would say.

Inside your brain is both a king and a simp. Your brain knows how to be both. If you are not a dominant man of any social environment, it is rare for you brain to allow you to access the king frame. Unless you have really high self esteem.

What guys do is they try to skip the entire rites of passage of cultivating social circles and connections, aka access to resources and women, and just spam approach.

But their brains refuse to give them the manual and they end up as simps/puas.

I’ve preached about this for years and years. As soon as I took over a tribe that had women in it, it was as if I became self actualized. I magically started to carry the king frame and automatically qualified and dismissed every woman. It wasn’t even a conscious thing. My frame was completely embedded into my presence and every woman submitted to me right away nonverbally.

I even carried this frame into the night clubs. It was just dismiss dismiss dismiss for all the entitlement girls have going on. And when I hooked, it was hard. Like total supplication and admiration. Make out on the spot.

Seems like only a few men in this forum know what I am talking about. Probably because most guys skipped the whole “become a dominant leader of tribes” part when growing up.

It’s a rites of passage that you cannot skip if you want to access your highest frame. Unless of course, you have an incredible sense of sovereignty.
Can you be "king frame" and commit or allow "simp" actions? Cause the women will "simp test" you.
 

stormrider

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I agree there's a lot of "snake oil" to the PUA stuff. There are guys who swear by it though. A lot of it is weird, but a guy with limited options might do well playing the numbers game, or by putting himself out there more. I've always thought how well a guy does varies greatly by the individual - depends on his SMV and what his particular sticking points are.

Social circles are very good, for the reasons you describe. If guys are wanting to have some sort of super fantasy harem though, I don't know if they are going to get it through social circle. Not that I really care. I'm not going to feel sorry for a guy because he thinks he's entitled to 10 HB9s and he can only find a few HB7s to be hot for him.

Also, to have a very large social circle (or a lot of different social circles), you're going to have to spend nearly all your free time socializing. That might work well for some people, but not for others. I was willing to socialize heavily when I was in my 20s, but as I got older I realized I didn't care to put that much time into it.
The guys who swear by PUA stuff all end up hating women or becoming MTGTOW. There is a price to pay for mastering PUA game. You will realize the chicks that PUA game attracts are borderline retarded and super trashy. Basically, borderline sociopaths who hop from one guy to the next without a care in the world.

Why do you think you keep hearing about all this CHAD, hypergamy, BPD, and c0ck carousel stuff? These guys are literally describing clubs chicks. They chose the wrong type of women for themselves.

And then they turn around and paint a picture as if all women are like that.

The numbers game is nothing more than approaching enough women that you find a girl on your wavelength. If you guys existed in the same social environment, it would have happened anyway.

I could easily achieve the same thing by developing hobbies and interests with women in it. In fact, that might even be easier.

No matter what you do, you can’t escape wavelength. You can call it the numbers game. You can call it whatever you want. One way is mass approaching and relying on luck. The other way is consciously directing your social life so that the “luck” is more likely to happen.

You are right to a certain extent that it DOES depend on the individual. His personality type, look, style, demographic, values, interests, etc. There are women out there that are attracted to his exact type. Aka wavelength.

If he keeps going to the clubs and playing the low probability game striking out, he will begin to think there is something seriously wrong with him when in reality, none of those women perceived him as their “type.” There was nothing he could have done. No “game” in the world would have changed the outcome.

In my experience, my “super harem” CAMED from social circles and social environments, lol. Once you become known as the “go to guy”, it multiplies exponentially.

If anything, it would be harder for a middling status guy to get a harem outside social circles because he would have zero social proof. He would have to start from scratch after every approach.

To me, being socially connected completely depends on your lifestyle. You will simply attract people that have similar lifestyles and interests – aka wavelenth. It always come back to that.

Socializing is not actually a lifestyle. I’ve met some women and social circles camping, hiking, gym, volunteering, and doing amateur photography. It’s all within my ecosystem. I am not reaching out and stretching myself thin.


Of course I am not saying I don’t go to the meat market. Because I do. But the difference between the women I meet is like night and day.

And I also have guy friends who are like what you described. They might not look like much upon first impression. But give them a few months in social circles and they are cleaning up.

Nature didn’t just design men to be nomads who had to depend on looks alone. That would have eliminated 90% of the population.

In the natural world, everyone hooks up in small community clusters, like back in the ancient times.
 
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stormrider

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Can you be "king frame" and commit or allow "simp" actions? Cause the women will "simp test" you.
Women in my social circles are deathly afraid, and I mean deathly afraid to offend my ego. They know how to massage the male ego. Especially if hes the dominant male. They've been studying males their whole entire lives.

I think simp testing is more likely to happen when you approach women who have no idea who you are. Like for example, the dating world. It's a cluster fvck of strangers vetting each other.
 
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zekko

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Socializing is not actually a lifestyle. I’ve met some women and social circles camping, hiking, gym, volunteering, and doing amateur photography. It’s all within my ecosystem. I am not reaching out and stretching myself thin.
It's not a stretch to you because the hobbies and activities you are naturally interested in have women in them, and get you out of the house. A guy who's interested in chess, model railroads, and video games probably isn't going to be in the same position.

Also, to run a social group takes a certain amount of ability. To learn how to dominate any group of men (or mixed group) you encounter is probably harder than trying to learn pickup.
 

Rictor1

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It's not a stretch to you because the hobbies and activities you are naturally interested in have women in them, and get you out of the house. A guy who's interested in chess, model railroads, and video games probably isn't going to be in the same position.

Also, to run a social group takes a certain amount of ability. To learn how to dominate any group of men (or mixed group) you encounter is probably harder than trying to learn pickup.
I think I remember you saying something similar before. But I also think you are not giving yourself enough credit. I think you are fully capable of achieving what Stormrider is trying to explain to you. I did this without knowing it was a thing. I'm going to do my best to explain why you're capable of achieving it, but I am not the best with words so I hope it makes sense.

Ok so think back to when we were kids, either before we hit puberty or maybe after (but not that long after). While I can't relate to being into model railroads, I was really into Magic the Gathering, some video games, and Legos. Essentially, nerd stuff. But at the same time, I was always the most dominant one in class (not for the right reasons, but bear with me). I would say that I didn't start looking good until I got older. And ironically, I keep looking better year after year as I'm aging. But even back then as a kid when I was very self-conscious, I'd have girls (not ALL, but MANY) that were into me just because 1) they were around me very often and certain facets of my personality were allowed to shine through, 2) I was a dominant force in my social environment and 3) I also hit puberty a little earlier so while many girls were ahead of the boys in terms of development, many saw me as being the best option due to maturing fast enough for them.

I don't think dominating a social group always requires learning how to. I never learned how to. I just do it. I think it's about cultivating aspects of your personality that are dominant. You are a man, so I know you have these attributes, it's impossible not to.

While we aren't kids anymore, I refuse to believe that there aren't activities you're interested in that involve having women in them as a side effect. The idea is to already be doing things that you enjoy and being around women at the same time. But not so much trying to fit something in just to look for women. I've read a lot of your posts and I really believe that has to be things you like that women also like.
 

RickTheToad

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I saw someone link a wiki page that was exclusively for incels and blackpill info on here. The entire website was just one big ****ing meme, it was honestly hilarious. I checked it out just because it kept me laughing irl. They did have some scientific literature in there with some real dark stuff though, which is always a good slap in the face for another wakeup call.
They are losers. Losers hanging out with more losers = usually harmless losers... Usually.
 
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stormrider

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It's not a stretch to you because the hobbies and activities you are naturally interested in have women in them, and get you out of the house. A guy who's interested in chess, model railroads, and video games probably isn't going to be in the same position.

Also, to run a social group takes a certain amount of ability. To learn how to dominate any group of men (or mixed group) you encounter is probably harder than trying to learn pickup.
There was a time in my life where my number 1 hobby was spirituality. I spent a couple of years going to satsangs and meditation retreats. Somehow I still manage to meet hippie women, lol. Some of them were sexy.

The most dominant person is the one who takes responsibility for the group. He is able to put the betterment of the group before himself and people over time respond to him as if he was the leader.

It’s not that hard. Dominance is not what most think it is. It’s not about dominating. But leading and inspiring.

Like if I was in your group, I would just encourage you, I wouldnt try to dominate you, lol.

To be a leader all you gotta do is lead your own life. If you become competent, you can help others reach their potential.
 

skinnyguy

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I agree with @stormrider that social media has made it easier for average women to get laid. Tons of thirsty guys on social media.

what young guys need to understand is that their window is between 18 to 25. After that, the women worth getting are taken.

I know guys on here are anti marriage. and with good reason. Most girls (in our caliber) are kinda ****ty. But the most successful men out there are all married or partnered. They lock it down early. It’s not that hard for them because of their SMV. If you’re high SMV, and you find a quality woman early, marriage makes sense. A lot of them wouldn’t have made it this far if it weren’t for their wives.
 

zekko

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I think I remember you saying something similar before. But I also think you are not giving yourself enough credit.
I'm not talking about myself lol. I'm just saying that what approach works best for you has a lot to do with your own individual attributes. But I am certainly more of a proponent of self improvement than PUA techniques.

The most dominant person is the one who takes responsibility for the group. He is able to put the betterment of the group before himself and people over time respond to him as if he was the leader.
In many cases, the leader of the group has to at least be somewhat knowledgeable about the activity, and preferably very knowledgeable. If I decide to take up mountain climbing, I sure hope the leader of the group knows more about it than I do. I'm not going to try to assume leadership of that group, and probably get somebody killed, just so I can say I'm dominating the group.

Anyway, if you're just trying to be encouraging and inspiring, why would the women in the group be so deathly afraid of you?
 

biggoal

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I agree with @stormrider that social media has made it easier for average women to get laid. Tons of thirsty guys on social media.

what young guys need to understand is that their window is between 18 to 25. After that, the women worth getting are taken.

I know guys on here are anti marriage. and with good reason. Most girls (in our caliber) are kinda ****ty. But the most successful men out there are all married or partnered. They lock it down early. It’s not that hard for them because of their SMV. If you’re high SMV, and you find a quality woman early, marriage makes sense. A lot of them wouldn’t have made it this far if it weren’t for their wives.
Then why do these men end up getting divorced. Trump got divorced. Most of them are old too who got married early. Most successful people who get married early get divorced. Look at sports players and celebs. Many marry young and divorced within two years. Maybe 50 years ago, yea, but most marriages don't work now.
 

stormrider

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I'm not talking about myself lol. I'm just saying that what approach works best for you has a lot to do with your own individual attributes. But I am certainly more of a proponent of self improvement than PUA techniques.


In many cases, the leader of the group has to at least be somewhat knowledgeable about the activity, and preferably very knowledgeable. If I decide to take up mountain climbing, I sure hope the leader of the group knows more about it than I do. I'm not going to try to assume leadership of that group, and probably get somebody killed, just so I can say I'm dominating the group.

Anyway, if you're just trying to be encouraging and inspiring, why would the women in the group be so deathly afraid of you?
Women are always stuck in their heads, They are inherently insecure and afraid of losing your validation. This is their own problem and has nothing to do with me. I could be a saint and women will still have insecurity problems. All you need to do is surround yourself with women to find this out.

What you are talking about is specialized competency.

What I am referring to is an internal locus of control.

If you believe that your actions control your reality, you will have a great influence on people and especially women. They respond more to internal dominance/internal locus of control than guys who think there is something out there controlling their reality.

This is how subtle "dominance" is within the context of attraction.

You can even affect women's opinion in a reverse fashion. In other words, you can mold women and shape them into your frame. They will develop a bias for you. They will make remarks like "He's my bias."

There was even an experiment done in a college campus where they had two groups of men. One group praticed internal locus of control and the other group practice external locus of control.

They were both tasked to recite a persuasive argument. 99% of women were swayed by the internally dominant men.

You always see me preach about 100% responsibility, you are the creator of your own reality, etc etc.

This is the type of frame it takes to have women living in your reality. They want to live in it. They feel more strength and power being around a guy who is internally dominant and free from external validation.

A guy who blames the outside world has no power. The guy who takes 100% responsibility has all the power.

And I'm not talking about dominating in rock climbing or bungee jumping. Those are silly examples that miss the mark.

The point is internal dominance is what women respond to. Not the "rah rah Im the alpha male. I know everything" type of dominance. This is actually overcompensating behavior and a form of insecurity

I am glad you guys are asking me these tough questions. Most of the time, I gloss over the concept of dominance and people are still stuck at "I don't have any hobbies that has access to women."

Maybe one day I will write a post about having a dominant mindset.
 
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