This is How Bad It's Getting Out There...

biggoal

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I'm talking to an HB7.5 Asian on match right now back and forth. She's 40, has a grad degree and is in the medical field, has two kids and currently separated. Right now talking about favorite vacation spots. I'm worried I'm going to trip on my d*ck and say too much and get ditched or nothing after a first date again. Notice I get replies and women chat me up but then I text text and text and no second date or ghosted.

Any advice with Asians? VERY few within 100 miles of here. More rare than a golden unicorn.
 

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The most dominant person is the one who takes responsibility for the group. He is able to put the betterment of the group before himself and people over time respond to him as if he was the leader.
But these people are not the ones getting laid or getting dates. They're doing all of the dirty work to make it as easy and convenient as possible for the beautiful people to attend their parties. If they were one of the cool kids they wouldn't have to put in any extra work to get people to hang out with them. Those who are average to below average in looks and status can still hang with the cool kids as long as they do the dirty work for them.

If you find yourself in this supposedly "dominant" role more often than not, it's because you are lower status and are pinned with all of the grunt work to ensure you remain in the cool groups good graces.

The payoff for all of this hard work is the rub they get from hanging out with the "cool crowd" and potentially lucking into a lay, or at least meeting a second tier person within the social circle. Very often, they get absolutely nothing or settle for the lowest hanging fruit.

The right option for guys who lack options is actually social circles/environments that have a lot of women in it.

There, the women are less picky, you can easily elevate your status through reputation, and you would internalize female behavior through the process of osmosis.

Simply existing around women will erase a lot of your social awkwardness.

Don’t worry middling status guys – nature didn’t forget about you. Nature created a perfect design.

I figured it all out so that you guys don’t have to.
(found the quote, above)
Also, not sure who made this point, but someone claimed that average and below average guys can get good results through social circles. Again, I am not seeing this happen. Social circles reflect the same dynamics of online dating and nightlife cold approaching. Lower and average status guys tend to get nothing from social circles if they are interested in dating the more attractive women.

Usually, they don't get any dates at all, or they only get action from the lowest status women in the group, and only then after the low status women have given up on the possibility of dating the good looking men or man within the group. There is no "cheat code" for anyone in the dating game.
 
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zekko

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Maybe one day I will write a post about having a dominant mindset.
I have no doubt you have a great mindset, and that you have much to say on the topic that is of value. But when you say you had over 100 girls crushing on you in high school, that tells me a few things:

1) That is an incredible amount of very positive feedback at a very young and developmental age. And yes, I consider high school developmental age, especially for a male, who takes longer to mature. You basically had it drilled into your head that women found you attractive at a key point in your development. You would have had to work like a dog to undo all this positivity and end up with weak inner game, and even then I'm not sure you would have been successful.

2) To attract that many girls at a young age without even trying means you must have had some very attractive attributes, whether it be looks or status. Or maybe you were just very gregarious. You might attribute this to your mindset or creating your own reality, but I can't help but think that there were other attributes you had at play that were a bigger factor in creating all that attraction.
 
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2) To attract that many girls at a young age without even trying means you must have had some very attractive attributes, whether it be looks or status. Or maybe you were just very gregarious.
Or, 3) he's delusional re: The "You Get What You F'ing Deserve!" Joker.
 

stormrider

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I have no doubt you have a great mindset, and that you have much to say on the topic that is of value. But when you say you had over 100 girls crushing on you in high school, that tells me a few things:

1) That is an incredible amount of very positive feedback at a very young and developmental age. And yes, I consider high school developmental age, especially for a male, who takes longer to mature. You basically had it drilled into your head that women found you attractive at a key point in your development. You would have had to work like a dog to undo all this positivity and end up with weak inner game, and even then I'm not sure you would have been successful.

2) To attract that many girls at a young age without even trying means you must have had some very attractive attributes, whether it be looks or status. Or maybe you were just very gregarious. You might attribute this to your mindset or creating your own reality, but I can't help but think that there were other attributes you had at play that were a bigger factor in creating all that attraction.
Some guys have more advantages but dominance is universal across the board.

Another shade of dominance is the less you care about external validation, the more unreactive and dominant you are. We’ve all had these universal experiences where we didn’t give a fvck and women seemed to react more positively to us.

Dominance is inversely related to caring about social approval. What I mean is if you completely don’t give a fvck about people’s approval, you come across as very dominant to women. This is why those bad boy outcasts do so well with women. Some of these bad boys even appear “ugly” where we scratch our heads and wonder how they clean up so well.

Another expression of dominance is vulnerability and freedom of expression. We’ve all experienced total self confidence and not being afraid to be vulnerable. Contrary to popular belief, a dominant guy does not protect himself. He openly flaunts his vulnerability. In fact, vulnerability might be one of the most attractive qualities to women.

How many times have we heard of the archetypical bad boy who is impervious to social acceptance BUT.........who also has a vulnerable side?

This is just women trying to describe dominance.

There is also dominance as a master of a craft. Women find it sexy when a guy performs a certain task like an expert. Some might call this “confidence.” Confidence for the most part is just mastering a certain act because you did it over and over again.

Then there is dominance as a state. Some guys have resilient state. No matter what happens, their internal state isn’t affected. These guys are laser focused in their purpose and are very stoic. Because they spend all their time fulfilling their goals, their expression is completely transparent (meaning they are not carrying around a false persona) and nothing external can affect them. These are like the CEOs of the world who can give speeches to 100,000 people. They have bulletproof frame that is impervious to social pressure.


I have given you all these forms of dominance that you have undoubtedly seen attract women your whole entire life, or perhaps you’ve even possessed some of these qualities yourself and seen women respond positively to it. These are qualities that have nothing to do with looks or height or anything you can’t control.

If you give all these badass dominant qualities to a guy who is at least at a 6/10 and put him into a social circle full of women, I guarantee you he will clean up.

And this is just the surface. I haven’t even gone deep into the rabbit hole of dominance.

There are reasons why men are capable of possessing these qualities and why women are attracted to it. It has something to do with how women are inherently weak by nature and therefore hyper reactive. They almost need a 6th sense to survive. This is why it feels like many women can see right through you. Women are like rabbits. They need to be aware of everything in order to survive.

Men are the physically stronger sex. We are supposed to be unreactive. And I don’t mean pretend to be unreactive like these puas. Inside your brain there is something called “awareness radius.” When women do not appear on your radar, they will be curious and try to get your attention.

When nothing appears on your radar, then you have a very dominant frame. It means that you don’t perceive anything as a threat. Just like how a bear looks completely at ease in a forest. It can sleep, eat, and sh1t anywhere. This type of oblivious behavior is very attractive to women. It signifies you have no threats. It signifies power.

When women dont appear on your awareness radius, it looks like you already have abundance. This is why guys who do well with women often pay them “no mind.”

The most dominant men usually walk around as if they are oblivious. The weak men are completely stuck in their heads. It’s because the weak men are hyper reactive. A thousand things appear on their awareness radius. “Do I look cool today? Do my clothes match? Am I tall enough? Is my hair okay? Omg theirs Stacy, my dream crush.”

Meanwhile unreactive Steve walks by and Stacy is the hyper reactive one stuck in her head thinking “Omg there’s Steve. He’s so hunky. He’s so mysterious.”

Steve: *completely oblivious to evrything* I wonder what I’m going to have for lunch.

At the end of the day, it’s all about the law of the land. It’s all about power and strength. Those who attribute it to only looks have a very limited view. Powerful men come in all shapes and sizes.

Maybe I got lucky. Or maybe I’m just a genius. Whatever the case may be, you have all seen these qualities in attractive men in your lifetime. You might have even possessed some of these qualities. And everytime you did, you felt the masculine power.

P.S. Here is a bonus expression of dominance. The one you’ve seen in the night clubs all the time. Being outside your head. The opposite is neuroticness. One guy is social, friendly, has a cool vibe, is personable, and the other guy is self conscious, insecure, and afraid to express himself. He is completely needy and neurotic.

You can’t do anything about the cards you were dealt. But any guy can possess masculine dominance and transcend his limits. It is built into your DNA.
 
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Troll lol.

Some guys have more advantages but dominance is universal across the board.

Another shade of dominance is the less you care about external validation, the more unreactive and dominant you are. We’ve all had these universal experiences where we didn’t give a fvck and women seemed to react more positively to us.

Dominance is inversely related to caring about social approval. What I mean is if you completely don’t give a fvck about people’s approval, you come across as very dominant to women. This is why those bad boy outcasts do so well with women. Some of these bad boys even appear “ugly” where we scratch our heads and wonder how they clean up so well.

Another expression of dominance is vulnerability and freedom of expression. We’ve all experienced total self confidence and not being afraid to be vulnerable. Contrary to popular belief, a dominant guy does not protect himself. He openly flaunts his vulnerability. In fact, vulnerability might be one of the most attractive qualities to women.

How many times have we heard of the archetypical bad boy who is impervious to social acceptance BUT.........who also has a vulnerable side?

This is just women trying to describe dominance.

There is also dominance as a master of a craft. Women find it sexy when a guy performs a certain task like an expert. Some might call this “confidence.” Confidence for the most part is just mastering a certain act because you did it over and over again.

Then there is dominance as a state. Some guys have resilient state. No matter what happens, their internal state isn’t affected. These guys are laser focused in their purpose and are very stoic. Because they spend all their time fulfilling their goals, their expression is completely transparent (meaning they are not carrying around a false persona) and nothing external can affect them. These are like the CEOs of the world who can give speeches to 100,000 people. They have bulletproof frame that is impervious to social pressure.


I have given you all these forms of dominance that you have undoubtedly seen attract women your whole entire life, or perhaps you’ve even possessed some of these qualities yourself and seen women respond positively to it. These are qualities that have nothing to do with looks or height or anything you can’t control.

If you give all these badass dominant qualities to a guy who is at least at a 6/10 and put him into a social circle full of women, I guarantee you he will clean up.

And this is just the surface. I haven’t even gone deep into the rabbit hole of dominance.

There are reasons why men are capable of possessing these qualities and why women are attracted to it. It has something to do with how women are inherently weak by nature and therefore hyper reactive. They almost need a 6th sense to survive. This is why it feels like many women can see right through you. Women are like rabbits. They need to be aware of everything in order to survive.

Men are the physically stronger sex. We are supposed to be unreactive. And I don’t mean pretend to be unreactive like these puas. Inside your brain there is something called “awareness radius.” When women do not appear on your radar, they will be curious and try to get your attention.

When nothing appears on your radar, then you have a very dominant frame. It means that you don’t perceive anything as a threat. Just like how a bear looks completely at ease in a forest. It can sleep, eat, and sh1t anywhere. This type of oblivious behavior is very attractive to women. It signifies you have no threats. It signifies power.

When women dont appear on your awareness radius, it looks like you already have abundance. This is why guys who do well with women often pay them “no mind.”

The most dominant men usually walk around as if they are oblivious. The weak men are completely stuck in their heads. It’s because the weak men are hyper reactive. A thousand things appear on their awareness radius. “Do I look cool today? Do my clothes match? Am I tall enough? Is my hair okay? Omg theirs Stacy, my dream crush.”

Meanwhile unreactive Steve walks by and Stacy is the hyper reactive one stuck in her head thinking “Omg there’s Steve. He’s so hunky. He’s so mysterious.”

Steve: *completely oblivious to evrything* I wonder what I’m going to have for lunch.

At the end of the day, it’s all about the law of the land. It’s all about power and strength. Those who attribute it to only looks have a very limited view. Powerful men come in all shapes and sizes.

Maybe I got lucky. Or maybe I’m just a genius. Whatever the case may be, you have all seen these qualities in attractive men in your lifetime. You might have even possessed some of these qualities. And everytime you did, you felt the masculine power.

P.S. Here is a bonus expression of dominance. The one you’ve seen in the night clubs all the time. Being outside your head. The opposite is neuroticness. One guy is social, friendly, has a cool vibe, is personable, and the other guy is self conscious, insecure, and afraid to express himself. He is completely needy and neurotic.

You can’t do anything about the cards you were dealt. But any guy can possess masculine dominance and transcend his limits. It is built into your DNA.
 

RickTheToad

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I'm talking to an HB7.5 Asian on match right now back and forth. She's 40, has a grad degree and is in the medical field, has two kids and currently separated. Right now talking about favorite vacation spots. I'm worried I'm going to trip on my d*ck and say too much and get ditched or nothing after a first date again. Notice I get replies and women chat me up but then I text text and text and no second date or ghosted.

Any advice with Asians? VERY few within 100 miles of here. More rare than a golden unicorn.
Move to Asian town. Google is your friend.

 

biggoal

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biggoal

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Most sexually active people do not want to be around the Geritol Gang.
Well look at that map I posted sometime of floriduh. Pasco county all the way down to collier county minus Hillsborough county(county Tampa in which is really young) has pretty high average age especially Sarasota county down to Naples. Sarasota, charlotte and collier county has some of the oldest median ages in the state. Sarasota county and Charlotte tied for first. Southeast fl and Orlando a lot younger. Not fair.
 

zekko

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If you give all these badass dominant qualities to a guy who is at least at a 6/10 and put him into a social circle full of women, I guarantee you he will clean up.
He should be able to get some women, I don't know about clean up. I would think everyone on this forum would say that outcome independence is attractive. That alone isn't going to draw a bunch of women to him, it takes some other attractive traits to go along with it, some of which you talked about. Doesn't take a perfect storm, but at least some clouds gathered together to give some precipitation.

Being oblivious can be a double edged sword. I know for a fact I have missed out on several opportunities because I was oblivious. Women's signals often tend to be on the subtle side. I recall women telling me "I had a crush on you back then, but you never got the hint" lol.

Then of course there's the chicken and the egg. You talk of outcome dependence being attractive, but is it the cause of abundance or it is the result? I don't think I've ever met any guy who told me he had over 100 girls crushing on him in high school. Maybe if he was a high school quarterback, but that aside that is a crazy number IMO. It's going to be a lot easier to not care about girls if you're getting that kind of reaction. Which I guess is kind of the point, because PUAs copy naturals.
 

stormrider

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He should be able to get some women, I don't know about clean up. I would think everyone on this forum would say that outcome independence is attractive. That alone isn't going to draw a bunch of women to him, it takes some other attractive traits to go along with it, some of which you talked about. Doesn't take a perfect storm, but at least some clouds gathered together to give some precipitation.

Being oblivious can be a double edged sword. I know for a fact I have missed out on several opportunities because I was oblivious. Women's signals often tend to be on the subtle side. I recall women telling me "I had a crush on you back then, but you never got the hint" lol.

Then of course there's the chicken and the egg. You talk of outcome dependence being attractive, but is it the cause of abundance or it is the result? I don't think I've ever met any guy who told me he had over 100 girls crushing on him in high school. Maybe if he was a high school quarterback, but that aside that is a crazy number IMO. It's going to be a lot easier to not care about girls if you're getting that kind of reaction. Which I guess is kind of the point, because PUAs copy naturals.
It’s actually more common than you think. I know guys who attract 80% of women they come in contact with.

When you spend your time in sosuave it’s easy to fall into the habit of thinking everything is harder now.

But there are guys out there who literally swim in infinite validation.

Everytime I go out I always run into a few of them. They are usually tall and buff, handsome in the face, and have 5-6 women hovering around them.

One time I was standing outside a club and I literally saw a group of probably 10 girls swarming around some buff blonde guy. The way they ran towards him, I thought he was a celebrity or something but he was just another normal Chad.

Don’t forget this forum is like 90% incels so the perspectives are kind of biased.

In real life I see handsome guys getting chased by obsessed women every weekend.

And this is out in the meat market where it is supposedly hard.

Attraction compounds exponentially. That’s why sometimes it feels like you can’t get none, and sometimes It feels like every girl is attracted to you.

So having 100 options is actually pretty normal for an attractive guy in a social environment like high school or college.

Also that’s the experimental age where girls don’t really vet, they just go for whatever is cute and popular.

It’s when they are in their mid 20s that they suddenly have “standards”.
 
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zekko

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When you spend your time in sosuave it’s easy to fall into the habit of thinking everything is harder now.

But there are guys out there who literally swim in infinite validation.
I've never thought things were as hard as guys claim here.
Yes, there are guys who swim in validation. I'm saying they're not swimming in validation just because they learned to stop chasing. Well, maybe some guys - it depends on their SMV, how social they are, and what their sticking points are.

Attraction compounds exponentially.
Yeah, that's why some guys can change one little thing and get drastic results, and other guys can work for five years and barely get anything. The more boxes you check, the better off you are.
 

stormrider

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I've never thought things were as hard as guys claim here.
Yes, there are guys who swim in validation. I'm saying they're not swimming in validation just because they learned to stop chasing. Well, maybe some guys - it depends on their SMV, how social they are, and what their sticking points are.


Yeah, that's why some guys can change one little thing and get drastic results, and other guys can work for five years and barely get anything. The more boxes you check, the better off you are.
I can’t speak for other guys, but for me, the difference between swimming in validation as supposed to not being able to get anything is having a balanced social life.

I would say neediness and it’s polar opposite abundance are two of those things that compounds exponentially.

When I don’t have a social life and my only outlet is the clubs, I can’t get anything.

But when I have a balanced social life, my vibe changes and suddenly I’m swimming in validation everywhere i go.

You asked earlier what came first, the chicken or the egg. For me, social circles with women in it came first. That’s why it’s preached all across this forum from guys who have similar abundance. They know they are not zen masters who can summon a super state out of thin air. I am humble enough to admit a huge part of my inner abundance comes from consciously constructing my social life.
 
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It’s actually more common than you think. I know guys who attract 80% of women they come in contact with.

But there are guys out there who literally swim in infinite validation.

Everytime I go out I always run into a few of them. They are usually tall and buff, handsome in the face, and have 5-6 women hovering around them.

One time I was standing outside a club and I literally saw a group of probably 10 girls swarming around some buff blonde guy. The way they ran towards him, I thought he was a celebrity or something but he was just another normal Chad.

So having 100 options is actually pretty normal for an attractive guy in a social environment like high school or college.

Also that’s the experimental age where girls don’t really vet, they just go for whatever is cute and popular.

It’s when they are in their mid 20s that they suddenly have “standards”.
Your stats are way off. They're corrected below. The error you make is that you assume 80% of women are attracted overall based upon an inordinate level of attention which actually amounts to a rather small percentage of women.

Take your "10 girls swarming" example. Sure, that's great. It's an example of "high interest." But do you suppose that there were only 12 or 13 girls in that club or bar? No, even in a medium sized venue, maybe 50 to 100 to 200 might pass through during prime time hours over the course of 1-3 hours.

10 girls showing interest out of 100 is 10% who show interest (IOI's, attraction, or whatever term you want to use), not 80%.

Let's post some stats. I'm pretty familiar with and have good success in the nightspots with the most attractive women. These are medium sized venues which get absolutely packed on weekend nights, with a solid selection of talent.

On a slow night, I might be approached by a couple of girls and maybe double digits will show clear interest. On a better night, upwards of a dozen or more will approach and maybe a couple dozen show clear interest. These numbers are astronomical compared to most guys, at the very least top 5%, probably more like top 1%. Probably a majority of guys will never be approached romantically by a woman in their lifetime, much less by multiple women in a single night.

Think about how many women pass through a prime spot on a weekend night even if it's a smaller venue. Easily 100. That means that only 25% at most show clear interest (strong not ambiguous IOI's or approach). This is for a guy who is top 1 to top 5% in generating attraction.

For guys lower in the hierarchy, but still in the top 20%, most will not get anything more than an occasional glance or smile in the overwhelming majority of situations.

I'm trying to think of a single friend or wingman who was ever approached by even a single attractive woman in her 20's. I can't even think of one, and this is over the course of over 12 years in the game. I'm not saying it's never happened, I'm simply saying I can't recall such a situation off the top of my head.
 
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RickTheToad

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Well look at that map I posted sometime of floriduh. Pasco county all the way down to collier county minus Hillsborough county(county Tampa in which is really young) has pretty high average age especially Sarasota county down to Naples. Sarasota, charlotte and collier county has some of the oldest median ages in the state. Sarasota county and Charlotte tied for first. Southeast fl and Orlando a lot younger. Not fair.
Life's not fair. Make changes or deal with it.

What about spending 90% od their time round bull dyke lesbians? That surely should be good for sex drive and erections.
Good way to go limp, no?
 

MrWood

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how bad is it? I can't say... maybe its dependent on the person and/or location

I just arrived in Stockholm and have 3 matches in Tinder within 12hr from HB7+ (ages 23,34,41), I swiped about 50.
(and 4 new potential matches that I have not matched, yet)

Also spammed out to 4 ladies using WeChat nearby feature, got 3 responses.
 
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biggoal

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how bad is it? I can't say... maybe its dependent on the person and/or location

I just arrived in Stockholm and have 3 matches in Tinder within 12hr from HB7+ (ages 23,34,41), I swiped about 50.
(and 4 new potential matches that I have not matched, yet)
So maybe guys should quit working out, shave their heads and get some grey hairs lol.

A women who's 23 and has a guy hitting on them in their 50s will usually be repulsed unless he looked like super chad and really young and even then those 23 year olds are not into gold digging yet so you dont see them with old men often.
 
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