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This is How Bad It's Getting Out There...

LARaiders85

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That’s their own doing because they decided to destroy their ability to pair bind back in their 20’s by hopping on miles of c0ck. They didn’t “survive” anything, they created their miserable life in their 30’s and beyond. Even some women approaching the wall in their 30’s stumble across a golden opportunity when an actual decent guy comes along but they don’t recognize it. I don’t mind a flat out kiss ass simp, but a decent fella that maybe isn’t quite a Chad but has a good job and has his sh!t together. These women don’t recognize this is their final opportunity to attract that and they let it slip through their fingers.
They never had the ability to pair bond to begin with. That's why you start to see really severe issues beyond what a guy would have from playing the game too long.
 

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MoreThanSmooth

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I partly agree that the upper end of "aesthetic" guys get a disproportionate amount of attention but there are two big caveats to that:

1. Personality and sincere charm is king to most high quality women.
2. Any guy with good physical health (i.e. no chronic disability or illness) is capable of making himself attractive by putting in gym work.

A lot of the guys that I see getting bitter or frustrated in the dating scene seem to be content with being entirely average, or content with being boring. This isn't want women want in their life (quite rightfully really - would you date a woman with zero personal ambition?)

Anyway with regard to point 1., I find just being ballsy and confident makes a bigger impact on women than being ripped or Brad Pitt in the looks department. There are a lot of hot guys who are creepy, or boring, or unintelligent. If you walk up to a woman and make intelligent conversation, maybe make her laugh a bit, you are already above 90% of the men she interacts with on a daily basis even if you're overweight or not a great looker.

Girls also tend to see the best in you once they start to like you. I have quite defined arms, but also a belly atm. I was chatting confidently to a woman in a bar last month and once we had rapport going, she complimented me on being "muscular". I laughed and said that I needed to lose some weight, but she just focused entirely on my arms and started complimenting me again.

Secondly, your friend who is "average" should work on himself and aspire to be more than that, really. Not that everyone has to be an Olympian or anything, but if it's taking 3 years to get even one girl interested in you, it probably pays to hit the gym.

Finally, your social exposure makes a big difference. If I'm really busy with work and not getting out at all, I can go years without a girlfriend. If I'm going to parties every week, I'm going to be dating a lot more.
 

RickTheToad

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I partly agree that the upper end of "aesthetic" guys get a disproportionate amount of attention but there are two big caveats to that:

1. Personality and sincere charm is king to most high quality women.
2. Any guy with good physical health (i.e. no chronic disability or illness) is capable of making himself attractive by putting in gym work.

A lot of the guys that I see getting bitter or frustrated in the dating scene seem to be content with being entirely average, or content with being boring. This isn't want women want in their life (quite rightfully really - would you date a woman with zero personal ambition?)

Anyway with regard to point 1., I find just being ballsy and confident makes a bigger impact on women than being ripped or Brad Pitt in the looks department. There are a lot of hot guys who are creepy, or boring, or unintelligent. If you walk up to a woman and make intelligent conversation, maybe make her laugh a bit, you are already above 90% of the men she interacts with on a daily basis even if you're overweight or not a great looker.

Girls also tend to see the best in you once they start to like you. I have quite defined arms, but also a belly atm. I was chatting confidently to a woman in a bar last month and once we had rapport going, she complimented me on being "muscular". I laughed and said that I needed to lose some weight, but she just focused entirely on my arms and started complimenting me again.

Secondly, your friend who is "average" should work on himself and aspire to be more than that, really. Not that everyone has to be an Olympian or anything, but if it's taking 3 years to get even one girl interested in you, it probably pays to hit the gym.

Finally, your social exposure makes a big difference. If I'm really busy with work and not getting out at all, I can go years without a girlfriend. If I'm going to parties every week, I'm going to be dating a lot more.
I guess the question to ask, is what's considered average??
 

LARaiders85

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Never? Or they became that way? I see these types much more common now than when I was a child. Or maybe they always had it within them and the current social paradigms we have today just brought it out.... but fr there to be this many? I’m not sure if it really is something solely inherent.
Every ho started out as a virgin. These women don't bond and get bored easily.
 

ImTheDoubleGreatest!

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Analysis paralysis sometimes seems to be the theme of things.

Certain aspects have changed the logistics over the years: social media, cell phones/texting, OLD...but I don’t think things have changed so dramatically as it is sometimes made out to be.

20-30 years ago if you didn’t have a large social circle with women in it, or didn’t have the balls to do stone cold approaches, you were pretty much screwed. And even if you had such recourse, you still had to compete heavily within your own social circles.

If anything, the technology should give guys a much broader resource base to work with, even if women have become more selective because of it.

If someone stuck a computer in front of me in 1992 and told me there’s a list of thousands of women I can look at and try to hook up with, I would have considered it a gold mine; a weapon of mass destruction...an invaluable resource that never dries up.

Women are 100 times more accessible these days by comparison. That’s a fact. And even if many become entitled without good cause, you’re still able to access so many more women now that it’s not hard to just keep passing until you hit something better. You don’t have to entertain sh*t.

30 years ago if you “Nexted” a girl, you might very likely have to break into whole new social circles just to get another shot at another one; competing with a whole new set of men.

It should be easier, even if b*tches are crazy. And that’s the scary part: women are so much more accessible yet men are complaining 10 fold about the difficulties of hooking up or relationships.

Yeah it’s getting bad out there, but I wouldnt put the blame entirely on women or technology like a lot of guys so readily do. More and more men seem incapable of competing even with the huge upswing in accessibility to women compared to 2 or 3 decades ago. Imagine how much worse they would have been back then with a limited social pool....
I whole-heartedly disagree because these very same platforms that make it ‘easier’ to meet women also increased the competition much more than ever before. Things do stack up linearly anymore. In addition, these same platforms made EVERYONE much less friendly in general. Decades ago, you used to be able to go to a park and play with a kid that wasn’t yours and it was perfectly normal. Today? Everyone within a 30-mile radius gets an Amber Alert and you’re ****ed for life. Nowadays we face REAL repercussions if we actually approach a woman in public, approach anxiety be damned. Yeah, focus on other things and quit complaining, I get it. But to just dismiss it is just negligent because you’re not rally considering what type of impact this could/is having.
 
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zekko

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JayAce

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Wall girls aren’t even settling anymore. They’ll friend up enough simps to “help them out” but they aren’t even dating them much less marrying them. Some simps are wising up too, finally. Basically what’s happening is mid-30’s wall girls are so alpha widowed that they won’t lower their expectations.
This has been my observation as well. It’s a bleak dating world out there (for the most part) at this moment in time.
 

LARaiders85

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Analysis paralysis sometimes seems to be the theme of things.

Certain aspects have changed the logistics over the years: social media, cell phones/texting, OLD...but I don’t think things have changed so dramatically as it is sometimes made out to be.

20-30 years ago if you didn’t have a large social circle with women in it, or didn’t have the balls to do stone cold approaches, you were pretty much screwed. And even if you had such recourse, you still had to compete heavily within your own social circles.

If anything, the technology should give guys a much broader resource base to work with, even if women have become more selective because of it.

If someone stuck a computer in front of me in 1992 and told me there’s a list of thousands of women I can look at and try to hook up with, I would have considered it a gold mine; a weapon of mass destruction...an invaluable resource that never dries up.

Women are 100 times more accessible these days by comparison. That’s a fact. And even if many become entitled without good cause, you’re still able to access so many more women now that it’s not hard to just keep passing until you hit something better. You don’t have to entertain sh*t.

30 years ago if you “Nexted” a girl, you might very likely have to break into whole new social circles just to get another shot at another one; competing with a whole new set of men.

It should be easier, even if b*tches are crazy. And that’s the scary part: women are so much more accessible yet men are complaining 10 fold about the difficulties of hooking up or relationships.

Yeah it’s getting bad out there, but I wouldnt put the blame entirely on women or technology like a lot of guys so readily do. More and more men seem incapable of competing even with the huge upswing in accessibility to women compared to 2 or 3 decades ago. Imagine how much worse they would have been back then with a limited social pool....
The guys at the very top in looks are doing better and don't have to cold approach or have huge social circles. The guys in the middle still have to cold approach and have huge social circles because online dating is a waste of time for them, they don't match with anyone. The women in the social circles and clubs meanwhile are pickier and more entitled, in person meat markets don't exist like they used to. You are a good looking guy in the city where men have very high value so this change is alien to you.
 

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Amante Silvestre

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Decades ago, you used to be able to go to a park and play with a kid that wasn’t yours and it was perfectly normal.
I’m 46. I was chasing tail as a horny teen 3 decades ago. I don’t need to be told what it was like, particularly by someone who was either a very young child or not even born yet.

I know what it was like.

I have succeeded and failed thousands of different ways for over 30 years, and I have adapted to all of the changes that everyone complains are barriers or disadvantages just fine.

I don’t believe women have changed much at all. I think most guys are just shell shocked from the exposure that technology helps reveal; aspects of women that were always there...things that are just easier to see now. But that doesn’t mean it didn’t exist or have to be dealt with years ago.

It’s like hearing about wars and conflicts all over the world and thinking things are getting really bad, but those acts have been carried out for centuries. You just hear more about them in bigger numbers now because of round the clock news coverage and 300 channels on cable, etc. compared to 30, 40 or 50 years ago when you only had 7 channels on tv and the local news was only on at 6 pm.
 
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Amante Silvestre

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You are a good looking guy in the city where men have very high value so this change is alien to you.
Right now, yes, I do have that advantage. And I do make the effort to keep that in mind when I discuss these topics. trying not to be that guy who has it easy and wonder what everyone else’s problem is.

But that doesn’t mean this has always been the case for me.

I’ve moved around the country extensively and have gone through a lot of changes personally. I’ve been 40 pounds lighter, living and working in remote farm country, and I wasn’t wearing Calvin Klein with a sharp haircut. Ive managed to get by in small towns wearing dirty work boots.

I’ve had my difficulties and struggles too, and I was on the receiving end of many of the trashy personas women can have when you’re on the wrong side of attraction. I do know what that’s like.

I just improve and adapt.

I don’t do bars and nightclubs to find women anymore, for example. It’s an old and tired out method. I believe a lot of guys complain about being the empty face in the club crowd kind of treatment because that’s exactly the situation they put themselves in. You HAVE to be significantly better looking just to stick out

When I do go I’m always bringing the women with me. I focus far more on greasing the staff to get those VIP kickbacks than I do focusing on women. That has a far better impact overall, not just with women, but for the fun and quality of my life. Win win.

On the flip side, I’ve lived in dinky little towns out in the Ozarks. Went out drinking with and sometimes fought hillbilly-like men...who often had little farmers daughter sisters...

Different strategies. Different approaches. Flexibility.

You can’t stay the same as the world keeps changing.
 

AttackFormation

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This has been my observation as well. It’s a bleak dating world out there (for the most part) at this moment in time.
It's better that they do remain single. Or should those women settle with men they don't want and be miserable? Would you want to be one of those men? That to me sounds bleak.

The best thing for everyone's happiness is likely to be that those women stay single, and I mean that sincerely. People who are not suited to be in relationships, and especially those who are not suited to be parents, shouldn't be expected or pressured into being so. I say we should celebrate this development as good for everyone involved.
 

stormrider

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People blame social media. I blame PUA's/pickup movement. There was a time where females would try to seduce me 24/7. Now it's once a blue moon. At most I get eye contact and open windows but I still have to put in some effort.

Even 6's are putting themselves in my vicinity and thinking eye contact is enough for me to do something.

There was a time where women had to work much harder to get guys they were attracted to.

Now the average chick thinks guys like me will go out of our way to chase/validate them.

It's like a mexican standoff. I'm too lazy to do anything. And she is too entitled because she got validated by 1000 simps.

It shouldn't be this easy for women. It is their job to seduce. All the desperate PUAs collectively lowered the value of all guys' validation in general. They pretty much saturated the market and created unrealistic expectations.

Even my reality is started to seem weird sometimes. I'm not going to be an attractive guy AND be a seducer/chase on top of that. I ain't giving these spoiled h0es their cake and letting them eat it too like you PUA's with no boundaries/standards.

This is why I avoid meat markets and stay in social environments. At least there, women still act submissive and natural and go for the king of the tribe. I'm not gonna be the king and chase. There is no such thing in the natural world.

Guys becoming unnatural seducers is what's contributing to this unnatural reality.
 

mrgoodstuff

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People blame social media. I blame PUA's/pickup movement. There was a time where females would try to seduce me 24/7. Now it's once a blue moon. At most I get eye contact and open windows but I still have to put in some effort.

Even 6's are putting themselves in my vicinity and thinking eye contact is enough for me to do something.

There was a time where women had to work much harder to get guys they were attracted to.

Now the average chick thinks guys like me will go out of our way to chase/validate them.

It's like a mexican standoff. I'm too lazy to do anything. And she is too entitled because she got validated by 1000 simps.

It shouldn't be this easy for women. It is their job to seduce. All the desperate PUAs collectively lowered the value of all guys' validation in general. They pretty much saturated the market and created unrealistic expectations.

Even my reality is started to seem weird sometimes. I'm not going to be an attractive guy AND be a seducer/chase on top of that. I ain't giving these spoiled h0es their cake and letting them eat it too like you PUA's with no boundaries/standards.

This is why I avoid meat markets and stay in social environments. At least there, women still act submissive and natural and go for the king of the tribe. I;m not gonna be the king and chase. There is no such thing in the natural world.
Falling into their frame would degrade you.
 
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stormrider

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Falling into their frame would degrade you.
The frame is guys attribute masculinity to their ability to chase, as if it is some great life conquest. But in reality it's pathetic. Real men climb mountains and conquer social environments. Compare that to the ability to "cold approach," and it's laughable to see where these guys' values are at. A first grader can cold approach.

Dominate your social environment, cultivate value and influence, and have all women chasing you, and now we are talking.

The real masculine guy is the guy who is so dominant that reality skews towards his favor and all women supplicate to him.

They don't understand this power.

They'd rather be Johnny Bravo than Leonardo DiCaprio.

There is a Leo in every social environment that cleans up with zero effort. Infinite validation. That's how it's supposed to be.
 

Amante Silvestre

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This is why I avoid meat markets and stay in social environments. At least there, women still act submissive and natural and go for the king of the tribe. I'm not gonna be the king and chase. There is no such thing in the natural world.

Guys becoming unnatural seducers is what's contributing to this unnatural reality.
Totally agree.

Decades ago having a massive social circle was really the only way to have your choice of women. But that took work. That required you to be sociable. It required getting involved in many things and becoming notably skilled at them. Men who did this rarely ever had problems attracting women with relative ease.

Today with all of the social media, OLD, etc, men have access to a very similar swath of women that is equal to the massive social circle a man would need and build for himself decades ago. But now guys are getting this same kind of access without the skills and effort put into creating it. It’s just a few keystrokes away. No social acuity really required.

Technology, IMO, has made many men socially lazier in a way, while at the same time women become even more selective, not just because of that same tech, but because of the armada of men lacking social acuity and persona that are now coming out of the woodwork for them to select from

When men don’t have the necessities to attract in this formula, they’re left with a frustrating stale mate in spite of the sea of women right in front of them.

Enter the PUA craze, the transparent seduction, etc.

Meanwhile, the men who continue to pull with minimal effort typically continue to do what other successful men have done for decades, or even centuries: They root themselves into social circles bountiful with women and establish a name and reputation for themselves; a quality that does a lot of the work for them.

It’s a lost skill, it seems.
 

biggoal

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View attachment 3447

Analysis paralysis sometimes seems to be the theme of things.

Certain aspects have changed the logistics over the years: social media, cell phones/texting, OLD...but I don’t think things have changed so dramatically as it is sometimes made out to be.

20-30 years ago if you didn’t have a large social circle with women in it, or didn’t have the balls to do stone cold approaches, you were pretty much screwed. And even if you had such recourse, you still had to compete heavily within your own social circles.

If anything, the technology should give guys a much broader resource base to work with, even if women have become more selective because of it.

If someone stuck a computer in front of me in 1992 and told me there’s a list of thousands of women I can look at and try to hook up with, I would have considered it a gold mine; a weapon of mass destruction...an invaluable resource that never dries up.

Women are 100 times more accessible these days by comparison. That’s a fact. And even if many become entitled without good cause, you’re still able to access so many more women now that it’s not hard to just keep passing until you hit something better. You don’t have to entertain sh*t.

30 years ago if you “Nexted” a girl, you might very likely have to break into whole new social circles just to get another shot at another one; competing with a whole new set of men.

It should be easier, even if b*tches are crazy. And that’s the scary part: women are so much more accessible yet men are complaining 10 fold about the difficulties of hooking up or relationships.

Yeah it’s getting bad out there, but I wouldnt put the blame entirely on women or technology like a lot of guys so readily do. More and more men seem incapable of competing even with the huge upswing in accessibility to women compared to 2 or 3 decades ago. Imagine how much worse they would have been back then with a limited social pool....
Then explain why the last year the quality and quantity on all the old apps has gone way down. Its talked about on many threads on here how the quality has gone down. Not many hb7 plus are on old anymore.

I think old has peaked hence it has gone downhill and not many hot women on it. From what they tell me at least around here is they get bombarded by hundreds of messages. Probably easier for them just too meet people irl.
 
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The average woman has far more leverage today than ever before. Assuming certain conditions: she is in her 20's, has at least a passably attractive face, and puts herself in situations where it's socially acceptable for men to approach her.

Tuesdays are a casual date night out locally. You can approach women, too, although there's less desperation and urgency compared to weekend nights. Here's a typical approach: a 20 something fellow, a bit heavy set, a bit desperate (sound familiar? a copy of the 3 year guy), but again, normal-ish. He approaches a 20 something girl. She is even more heavy set than the fellow, an average-ish face, at best. She is 4/10, or maybe a generous 5/10. He chats her up very briefly on his way out, and then puts his hands together in prayerful pose, and begs for her Instagram.

She puts on a bit of a show, dragging out her reply, making him wait. She finally agrees. Dude didn't have the gumption to approach her much more attractive girlfriend, who is smirking the entire time as average guy 2 debases himself in public. He finally gets her instagram, then crawls off into the night like a beaten dog.
 
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stormrider

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Totally agree.

Decades ago having a massive social circle was really the only way to have your choice of women. But that took work. That required you to be sociable. It required getting involved in many things and becoming notably skilled at them. Men who did this rarely ever had problems attracting women with relative ease.

Today with all of the social media, OLD, etc, men have access to a very similar swath of women that is equal to the massive social circle a man would need and build for himself decades ago. But now guys are getting this same kind of access without the skills and effort put into creating it. It’s just a few keystrokes away. No social acuity really required.

Technology, IMO, has made many men socially lazier in a way, while at the same time women become even more selective, not just because of that same tech, but because of the armada of men lacking social acuity and persona that are now coming out of the woodwork for them to select from

When men don’t have the necessities to attract in this formula, they’re left with a frustrating stale mate in spite of the sea of women right in front of them.

Enter the PUA craze, the transparent seduction, etc.

Meanwhile, the men who continue to pull with minimal effort typically continue to do what other successful men have done for decades, or even centuries: They root themselves into social circles bountiful with women and establish a name and reputation for themselves; a quality that does a lot of the work for them.

It’s a lost skill, it seems.
Not to mention when you build your social ecosystem the natural way, based on your interests and hobbies, you are more likely to run into women of similar interests, values, vibe, and wavelength. There is built in commonalities and chemistry.

In the dating world, it's a bunch of random strangers with nothing in common trying to vet each other.

One thing I've learned is that attraction is not the end all be all. I can go out and find tons of women I would be attracted to but can't really connect with. But I usually end up with women on my wavelength who exist in my ecosystem. And the connection is usually seamless and effortless. Almost like serendipity.
 
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