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Should we de-fund/abolish the police?

Should we de-fund the police?


  • Total voters
    39

Who Dares Win

Master Don Juan
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If you want better teachers, you don't advocate cutting their pay. You want to give incentive for more, better quality people to apply. I've heard protesters demand that we take away police pensions. This does nothing to improve police work, but is just petty revenge.

Similarly, what does taking Paw Patrol off the air accomplish? Makes sure that children growing up have no positive police role models on TV in case they decide to become police officers? Equality is good, justice is good, but some of the fringe stuff these radicals are asking for is not going to help matters at all.
Also those who want to cut police officers salaries simply dont get that below a certain point it increases the chances for corruption either making good men needy or attracting only scum toward those jobs.

But again we are talking about people that think socialism is about workers running the factory and the owner pushing the drills.
People that got degrees in sociology but didnt even bother to see how life, economy and human rights were in soviet Russia.
 

samspade

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Any police force in Europe is not trained nor equipped to deal with delicate situations as there.
It's obvious the police in America are not trained for American situations, or it wouldn't be such a fukking mess. Plenty of ethnic diversity in Europe where I live without all the gang activity and other ghetto b.s. Maybe the police here aren't trained for urban military warfare, but they don't need to be. Low violent crime rate, less emphasis on vice "crimes" like drugs, hookers, etc. American cities are teetering on third world sh!thole status. Decriminalize drugs and hookers and watch violent black markets magically disappear.

It's for this I believe the U.S. is over-legislated. Floyd allegedly passed a counterfeit bill. I passed a counterfeit bill in another country once and didn't get my neck kneeled on. Eric Garner was selling "untaxed" cigarettes. God forbid the gov't not get its piece of the action. The stupid thing is this will all probably result in more laws, not fewer, and cops will be more overburdened and the redneck racists will find more reasons to flex nuts.
 

zekko

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Maybe the police here aren't trained for urban military warfare, but they don't need to be. Low violent crime rate, less emphasis on vice "crimes" like drugs, hookers, etc.
The US has a lot of violent people. It's all the wannabe alphas walking around.
 

Who Dares Win

Master Don Juan
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It's obvious the police in America are not trained for American situations, or it wouldn't be such a fukking mess. Plenty of ethnic diversity in Europe where I live without all the gang activity and other ghetto b.s. Maybe the police here aren't trained for urban military warfare, but they don't need to be. Low violent crime rate, less emphasis on vice "crimes" like drugs, hookers, etc. American cities are teetering on third world sh!thole status. Decriminalize drugs and hookers and watch violent black markets magically disappear.

It's for this I believe the U.S. is over-legislated. Floyd allegedly passed a counterfeit bill. I passed a counterfeit bill in another country once and didn't get my neck kneeled on. Eric Garner was selling "untaxed" cigarettes. God forbid the gov't not get its piece of the action. The stupid thing is this will all probably result in more laws, not fewer, and cops will be more overburdened and the redneck racists will find more reasons to flex nuts.
Legalizing light drugs and hookers? count me in, nothing against it at all as much as I have nothing against cutting laws to the minimum and make them clear to everyone.

Agree also on european people not trained for those situations cause we dont have them yet, thats what I said when I compared it to the american one...they simply have a different working enviroment, till now at least.
I dont believe in Europe (not even uk and france) we have a degree of violence and violent people comparable to the american one.

If it wasnt for the terrorist attacks in the last decade we wouldnt even have proper rampages probably.
 

Spaz

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No european country deals with "diversity" and gangs as much as the american police, maybe the british and french ones while marginally the german ones.

Any police force in Europe is not trained nor equipped to deal with delicate situations as there.

You only need to check the average patrol in southern europe to realized a bulky guy in a bad mood could knock them out with minimal effort, they have guns but cant use them nor know how to use them.

In few years a reality check will happen in europe too.
I was thinking more in line with the northern hemisphere where I spent most of my time Europe.

I regularly get stopped by police, especially when I'm using short sleeves t-shirts, due to the tattoos I have and being a foreigner, my encounters with them has always been pleasant and they were really professional.

The worst would be Singapore, as they tried on numerous occasions to bar me entry until I informed them of my race.
 

EyeBRollin

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Let me point this out, the most corrupt police departments are the least accountable, and vice versa. If the head of every policing agency/department were directly elected by the people in the communities they police, it would certainly improve accountability. None is perfect, but municipal police departments are certainly the most corrupt; while sheriff's departments are the most accountable. Make the chief of police a directly elected position, or the Sheriff's Departments of the counties in which those municipalities lie could simply expand to take over those cities's patrolling duties. The sheriff's departments already have jurisdiction, anyway.

Problem solved.
You're welcome.
those are really good ideas. Unfortunately, Americans don’t like sharing public services on a county basis and much prefer self segregating by municipality. Do you think a suburban white couple wants to share their police resources with a more “violent” black neighborhood?
 

Spaz

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those are really good ideas. Unfortunately, Americans don’t like sharing public services on a county basis and much prefer self segregating by municipality. Do you think a suburban white couple wants to share their police resources with a more “violent” black neighborhood?
The blacks as a community too need to change and adjust their ways, its not a one way street that expects other races to pick up their slack.

It takes both hands to clap.
 

Spaz

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Let me point this out, the most corrupt police departments are the least accountable, and vice versa. If the head of every policing agency/department were directly elected by the people in the communities they police, it would certainly improve accountability. None is perfect, but municipal police departments are certainly the most corrupt; while sheriff's departments are the most accountable. Make the chief of police a directly elected position, or the Sheriff's Departments of the counties in which those municipalities lie could simply expand to take over those cities's patrolling duties. The sheriff's departments already have jurisdiction, anyway.

Problem solved.
You're welcome.
This might work but I'm skeptical as to the effectiveness, police presence might be disjointed or reduced in places that doesn't support the chief.

Perhaps a federally mandated training, hiring, etc program for City policemen and a system of federal KPI's that's monitored by a central government agency - reporting to Congress.
 

EyeBRollin

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The blacks as a community too need to change and adjust their ways, its not a one way street that expects other races to pick up their slack.

It takes both hands to clap.
Black people hold no responsibility for the racial situation in the United States. It’s a topic you know nothing about, so let’s move on and leave it at that.
 

zekko

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Black people hold no responsibility for the racial situation in the United States. It’s a topic you know nothing about, so let’s move on and leave it at that.
Unfortunately, I think there is a bit of a feedback loop going on. Black people certainly didn't start it, but racism breeds resentment, suspiciousness, hatred for the police, glorification of the thug culture - which encourages stereotypes and racial profiling, which creates more anger, hatred and resentment - which encourages more stereotyping and racial profiling, etc. etc.
 

Xenom0rph

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Gents, let's keep things civil. This is an important discussion. There are strong emotions on all sides but reason must prevail.

I actually understand and sympathize with anger in the Black community because (real talk) historically Black folks have always been exploited whether it be the Arab slave traders that sold African slaves to Europeans, or the Chinese pillaging Africa's resources and imposing Debt Colonialism, or appropriation of Black music, culture and athletics to enrich the entertainment industry etc.... I get it......

But to say that Blacks are somehow absolved of all responsibility is asinine....how does anyone rationalize that Blacks engaging in rioting and looting businesses that were unrelated to George Floyd is somehow excusable and that accountability does not apply?
 
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Xenom0rph

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The third paragraph got you out of orbit, but cultural appropriation? Really? If it weren't for stupid White teens buying their albums, most rappers would still be on their knees hustling in a dark alley, in some de-industrialized shiithole. As far as history goes, my sympathy for the ancestors of rioting, looting mobs doesn't translate to their absolution. Fuuck those entitled punks.
My man, that was the message I was trying to say: anger doesn't absolve anyone of accountability for their actions. It is inexcusable to burn down businesses (that were already suffering due to COVID19) unrelated to George Floyd.

But having lived in Cali my whole life, and being around a lot of Black folks, I've come to learn that the word "accountability" elicits angry emotions amongst Black folks the same way the n-word elicits anger emotions.

Therefore, IMHO, civility is of the utmost importance when discussing the issue of accountability with the Black community otherwise it would just descend into emotional bickering and all constructive dialog breaks down.
 
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zekko

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I've come to learn that the word "accountability" elicits angry emotions amongst Black folks the same way the n-word elicits anger emotions.
Yeah, suggesting that minorities are responsible for the prejudice against them does not seem like the way toward a healthy dialogue. People in general do not like to be told they are responsible for the world's ills, including white people. Although some people eat it up, like these people:

I know I sleep better knowing that these celebrities are keeping watch.
 

samspade

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Yeah, suggesting that minorities are responsible for the prejudice against them does not seem like the way toward a healthy dialogue. People in general do not like to be told they are responsible for the world's ills, including white people. Although some people eat it up, like these people:

I know I sleep better knowing that these celebrities are keeping watch.
That reminds me of that "Dear Woman" video a bunch of herbs made a few years back.

I don't think self-flagellation is productive or helpful. Neither is virtue signaling. If you want to help, give your money your time, bitches. (This applies to any cause.)
 

Xenom0rph

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zekko

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I don't think self-flagellation is productive or helpful. Neither is virtue signaling.
Perfect description, self-flagellation and virtue signalling. Not to mention narcissism and pomposity.

Yeah, I reposted that white knight cult video about a year ago to remind men to stop SIMPing.... here's a link if anyone is interested in how NOT to behave....
Yarrrgh, I couldn't watch much of that. I don't think there's an nanogram of testosterone in the whole video.
 

Spaz

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Black people hold no responsibility for the racial situation in the United States. It’s a topic you know nothing about, so let’s move on and leave it at that.
Yes they do and you damn well know it deep down.

Even if u r white but dressed as a begger, walk like a begger, talk like a begger, smell like a begger, unkempt like a begger, you think he gets respect? He will be discriminated on.

It's not just in US but everywhere else too.

1st education, 2nd mannerisms, 3rd appearance and 4th body language - there's only 4 steps to get a positive perception AND this would change the PATH of people who are black.
 

EyeBRollin

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Unfortunately, I think there is a bit of a feedback loop going on. Black people certainly didn't start it, but racism breeds resentment, suspiciousness, hatred for the police, glorification of the thug culture - which encourages stereotypes and racial profiling, which creates more anger, hatred and resentment - which encourages more stereotyping and racial profiling, etc. etc.
This is a mostly true statement that ultimately proves my comment. You are suggesting here that black people’s resentment towards America’s institutions justifies white people’s racist attitudes toward black people (I.e. “We’d respect black people if they stopped being mad about being treated poorly”) . That is a morally bankrupt position.
 
U

user43770

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This is a mostly true statement that ultimately proves my comment. You are suggesting here that black people’s resentment towards America’s institutions justifies white people’s racist attitudes toward black people (I.e. “We’d respect black people if they stopped being mad about being treated poorly”) . That is a morally bankrupt position.
You are morally bankrupt, by claiming that I have less morals than you, while refusing to have an honest debate.

Ok, not you, but BLM.
 
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