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Should we de-fund/abolish the police?

Should we de-fund the police?


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Epicenter

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That's interesting, I don't think I've ever heard anyone else say they are a determinist on this forum. It seems to blow against the DJ idea that you can "will" yourself into being a top 3% male (or whatever percentage it is this week. I've been seeing 1% mentioned more lately). I wouldn't go so far as to say there is no free will, but I do think it is true to a certain extent - most people are prisoners of their behaviors. I know there are studies that show people's personalities are formed at a certain age, for example. I suppose some people can change, but if it's against their nature it's extremely, extremely difficult.
I guess in real life I act like I have a free will.

Back in my mind I think physics have to follow laws. So I can not have any real freedom.

I think that the hot girl I see is basically a electrical inpulse that goes into my brain. On the other hand I am horny.

So practically I do more believe in free will. "Theoretically and philosophically" I don't do much believe in it.

Intellectuals often discuss if the "philosophical" believe in determinism has actually an effect on real life. Some argue that one beliefs in determinism because they want to give up on life and are lazy.

I think that the "push it mentality" correlates often with the believe in free will. That might be the reason that this practical philosophy is the predominant one here.

But when you look closer to it often there is a higher philosophical level to it. Many people with this mentality often can reveal that the reason they "push hard to get girls" is because they have no choice because they are so "addicted, in love" with girls.

Same with people who are successful. They often talk about "pushing it" but when asked they don't know what really makes them "push".

On a deeper level who can even answer the question: what is the "I"? What is identity?

In Germany we had a popular book from an philosopher. The titel was:

"Who am I? If yes, how many?

Btw I am a fan of Captain Kirk too and I agree with your signature.
 

Spaz

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Philosophy as a question:
On a higher level "philosophy" means to deal with the mystery of life. Do we really exist the way we think we exist? Is life deterministic? Even if life is deterministic is it better to act like it's not most of the time? If free will exists, how is it even possible? Are the laws of science real or just historical patterns? What is the value of life? and so on.
Philosophy is just how we think.

There's no higher, lower or middle.

Sometimes it deals with facts, sometimes it deals in delusions and yet othertimes it deals in a set of belief systems.

What's of importance is the result.

If the result you get svcks then how you think needs rearrangement.
 

Epicenter

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Philosophy is just how we think.

There's no higher, lower or middle.

Sometimes it deals with facts, sometimes it deals in delusions and yet othertimes it deals in a set of belief systems.

What's of importance is the result.

If the result you get svcks then how you think needs rearrangement.
In general I agree but things tend to get complicated.

Even if you know the results suck what you don't know exactly is why it sucks. What methods you should use as an alternative. If you should just randomly do something else or get more data about it. Where to get the data? Which are the relevant one? How long shold you invest in a special data point? Basically how do I deal with the unknown. Just changing your way of thinking might not be enough.

Additonally you don't know if the results just suck now. Maybe in the future it would reveal itself as a good result. So you have no idea if it really sucks (with the future counted in)

Also when one changes his way of thinking it might have bad side effects like taking an alcoholic his alcohol away and he commits suicide.

Bottom line is if you want to solve a complicated problem you have to thinnk complicated. So things are not easy on a higher level.

It's like Rocket science. There is a reason why it takes so much time get to the moon again. It's because it's complicated. You have to put a lot of energy into it. You have to change the way to think all the time basically.

Solving the problem might suck more then getting the result.
 

Spaz

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In general I agree but things tend to get complicated.

Even if you know the results suck what you don't know exactly is why it sucks. What methods you should use as an alternative. If you should just randomly do something else or get more data about it. Where to get the data? Which are the relevant one? How long shold you invest in a special data point? Basically how do I deal with the unknown. Just changing your way of thinking might not be enough.

Additonally you don't know if the results just suck now. Maybe in the future it would reveal itself as a good result. So you have no idea if it really sucks (with the future counted in)

Also when one changes his way of thinking it might have bad side effects like taking an alcoholic his alcohol away and he commits suicide.

Bottom line is if you want to solve a complicated problem you have to thinnk complicated. So things are not easy on a higher level.

It's like Rocket science. There is a reason why it takes so much time get to the moon again. It's because it's complicated. You have to put a lot of energy into it. You have to change the way to think all the time basically.

Solving the problem might suck more then getting the result.
How you think = knowledge

Lack of knowledge affects how you do things and this in turn is reflective of the results you see.

But results is a combination of how you think plus how you do things.

However how you think is also influenced by your inherent personality plus how you were raised.
 

Epicenter

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How you think = knowledge


However how you think is also influenced by your inherent personality plus how you were raised.
I agree. I would add it is also influenced by the capacity you have to compute the information. For example you will probably not be able to beat a chess computer.

Your brain probably is not good enough to compete with a computer. This result you probably will not have but your results will be better relatively speaking the better methods of thinking you use.
 

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Spaz

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I agree. I would add it is also influenced by the capacity you have to compute the information. For example you will probably not be able to beat a chess computer.

Your brain probably is not good enough to compete with a computer. This result you probably will not have but your results will be better relatively speaking the better methods of thinking you use.
Yes in a manner of speaking.
 

zekko

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I think that the hot girl I see is basically a electrical inpulse that goes into my brain. On the other hand I am horny.
Hard to argue with.

I've been watching some science vlogs lately. I like the ones about the nature of reality. Some theorize that we are living in a simulation (probably BS). There's another theory that we're living in a hologram. Not in the sense that it is being projected, but in the sense that our universe is really two dimensional but it holds the illusion of being three dimensional, like one of those 3D puzzle pictures that used to be popular. This has something to do with matter being imprinted on the flat surface of a black hole's event horizon.

Not sure what that has to do with anything, I just thought it was interesting.
 

Epicenter

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Hard to argue with.

I've been watching some science vlogs lately. I like the ones about the nature of reality. Some theorize that we are living in a simulation (probably BS). There's another theory that we're living in a hologram. Not in the sense that it is being projected, but in the sense that our universe is really two dimensional but it holds the illusion of being three dimensional, like one of those 3D puzzle pictures that used to be popular. This has something to do with matter being imprinted on the flat surface of a black hole's event horizon.

Not sure what that has to do with anything, I just thought it was interesting.
Yes intelligent people say it's even probable. If we would live in a extremely advanced civilization I think we would happily go there. That's kind of the case with computer games already.

Sometimes people take live to serious. People are addicted to equality. I think we are very similar on the quantum level probably. It might not console to many people but maybe some.

Bottom line reality is not real. If reality is all you have you are a prisoner of you mind. To get back to the topic. Reality is not the only thing that counts. You can be happy with little things. Fighting for justice has it's place but it is sometimes healthy to be outcome independent, process oriented not always goal oriented.You got to trick your mind sometimes.
 

eli77

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you have to look at what new jersey did as an example they did the right thing
 

Xenom0rph

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Minneapolis' city council just voted to defund the police dept, however it is unlikely to be approved via general ballot in the November election - it's just a virtue signalling move from the city council....

I'll probably make a separate thread about it later but right now I'm heading to the gym to get some leg day action.....
 

Spaz

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Yes intelligent people say it's even probable. If we would live in a extremely advanced civilization I think we would happily go there. That's kind of the case with computer games already.

Sometimes people take live to serious. People are addicted to equality. I think we are very similar on the quantum level probably. It might not console to many people but maybe some.

Bottom line reality is not real. If reality is all you have you are a prisoner of you mind. To get back to the topic. Reality is not the only thing that counts. You can be happy with little things. Fighting for justice has it's place but it is sometimes healthy to be outcome independent, process oriented not always goal oriented.You got to trick your mind sometimes.
Process oriented?

That's what fvcks up everyone here, they're too focused on the process but ignores the results and keeps on talking about process, for example all those nerds here that can't get laid but talks endlessly about how to approach women.

You should be goal oriented - > come up with ideas/mindset shift - > fine tune the process.
 

Epicenter

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Process oriented?

That's what fvcks up everyone here, they're too focused on the process but ignores the results and keeps on talking about process, for example all those nerds here that can't get laid but talks endlessly about how to approach women.

You should be goal oriented - > come up with ideas/mindset shift - > fine tune the process.
Ok let's say your goal is to be happy.

Or to give more detail:
You want to go through life with a smile. Having a song on the lips. Having easy and fun life.

How would you do that?
 

Spaz

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Ok let's say your goal is to be happy.

Or to give more detail:
You want to go through life with a smile. Having a song on the lips. Having easy and fun life.

How would you do that?
Result (happy) = Mindset shift/how you think - > process/how you do things.

How you think will always influence how you do things.

In the end, the results one gets in life is a reflection of how one thinks.
 

Epicenter

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Result (happy) = Mindset shift/how you think - > process/how you do things.

How you think will always influence how you do things.

In the end, the results one gets in life is a reflection of how one thinks.
I ment like:

Teacher: what is 2x2 ?
pupil: it's how you think that gives you the answer
Teacher: wtf
 

Spaz

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I ment like:

Teacher: what is 2x2 ?
pupil: it's how you think that gives you the answer
Teacher: wtf
So you want an answer on how to be happy, expecting a process, a step by step ritual, without taking into account of ur inherent personality, ur upbringing and how you currently think ?

My bad, I forgot to mention all those things above will influence how you actually act in real life, and that decides whether u r happy or not.
 

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samspade

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I guess in real life I act like I have a free will.

Back in my mind I think physics have to follow laws. So I can not have any real freedom.
There are astrophysical theories on the events that unfold over time that blow my mind. That the universe will end and time will go in reverse with all events unfolding but in reverse back to the beginning like a pendulum. Or of multitudinous universes with events happening differently in infinite possible ways. For instance you scratch your nose in this universe, but ignore it in the other, so not just big events. More recent ideas posit us being in a simulation. So maybe we're all helpless.
 

Epicenter

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So you want an answer on how to be happy, expecting a process, a step by step ritual, without taking into account of ur inherent personality, ur upbringing and how you currently think ?

My bad, I forgot to mention all those things above will influence how you actually act in real life, and that decides whether u r happy or not.
That is what you said. I never said that they should not taken into account.

Well these things are quite vague.
 

Epicenter

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There are astrophysical theories on the events that unfold over time that blow my mind. That the universe will end and time will go in reverse with all events unfolding but in reverse back to the beginning like a pendulum. Or of multitudinous universes with events happening differently in infinite possible ways. For instance you scratch your nose in this universe, but ignore it in the other, so not just big events. More recent ideas posit us being in a simulation. So maybe we're all helpless.
Yes bottom line is that infinite universe creates infinite actions and situations. Like you exist in infinite times. Doing infinite amount of things.

That is why one should take "reality" not too serious. Though as a determnist this is a paradox.
 

Spaz

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There are astrophysical theories on the events that unfold over time that blow my mind. That the universe will end and time will go in reverse with all events unfolding but in reverse back to the beginning like a pendulum. Or of multitudinous universes with events happening differently in infinite possible ways. For instance you scratch your nose in this universe, but ignore it in the other, so not just big events. More recent ideas posit us being in a simulation. So maybe we're all helpless.
You mean as in u r fated to be so and so?

If so, please don't even go there, this is what women normally say and men who are defeated regularly does to themselves.

Do you really believe that a man who consistently wins are hapless in dire a situation or they will fight tooth and nail to not only survive it but thrive?
 
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