I may be getting a little black-pilled now...

[BPH]

@BPH I wanted to run something by you, let me know what you think.

I've been staying with my brother (who is early 40s, single and dating casually by choice), and I ran the Exhibit A scenario by him last night during dinner.

For context, he's tall, good looking, a physique to die for (a recovering alcoholic who now considers the gym his 'drug' of choice).

Anyway...

He said he's encountered Ex A quite often in some form or fashion and how he deals with it and would have dealt with your situation is....

When your girl's friend started in with her shaming calling you stingy etc, he would have whispered in your girl's ear "sure I'd love to buy you a drink, let's get the hell outta here just the two of us."

He said very rarely will women go against their friends when they begin acting bytchy which is why it's up to the man to quietly take charge and lead by suggesting you and the girl leave the bar together just the two of you.

Most of the time, it's worked like a charm and even had the night end with sex but IF she resists and insists on staying with her friend, he would say "OK I'll leave you ladies to it then, have a good evening."

He would then go sit at the bar, chat with the bartender and others at the bar and not give what just happened a second thought.

He said he might even have bought the two ladies a drink, have the waitress deliver but give them no more attention after that.

Note literally nothing rattles my brother. Nothing! He's always cool, calm collected, stoic to a fault (imo) but he'd give a friend the shirt off his back if necessarily and the ladies adore him!

Curious what your thoughts are re how he would have handled it?

If it works for him, more power to him.

I've always found groups of 2 are the hardest to deal with because it is extremely rare that a girl will feel comfortable leaving her friend alone at a bar while she spends time with you - her interest would have to be very high, and that friend would probably need to know other people at the bar to attach herself to.

In my specific case, the girl I was interested in had already said that "where she goes, I go" regarding her friend, so trying to separate them seemed like a moot point. Additionally, I already didn't like how this girl immediately jumped into "wanna buy us a drink" - I'm not opposed to paying a woman's way if I'm taking her on this journey of a night with me, but I hate the concept of paying for a woman's time and attention, as if hers is more valuable than mine. And finally, I mentioned this in the OP, but she looked considerably worse than when I'd seen her all nice and done up the night before.

Combine all this, and I didn't feel like dealing with the bad behavior was worth it, personally.

 

[Clockwerk50]

Alright, I got more replies than I was expecting, and I decided to do some reflection. Before I do that, I want to go over some points, rather than quote so many people individually:

• Regarding the Tea app...I've done my research, and the experience of several people in the same position as myself has had no response from any of Tea's support emails. I assume they are inundated with similar requests for takedowns. It is only when Apple legal was involved that a response from Tea was necessary. Because the app is no longer searchable to be included in that form for Apple, I cannot submit that takedown through that channel. I've asked the person who was able to get their request answered via this method what email Apple replied with, so I can contact them directly, and I am waiting for a response. I'll figure it out, either through Apple or Google Play.
• Regarding texting the girl from Exhibit C...my thought was that at the very least, I've denied what I've been accused of. She is likely to show several other girls what's been posted about me - she probably has already. I figure that at least now, she has the other side of that equation, regardless of whether she plans to share that, say she doesn't believe it, whatever. Of course, it doesn't matter; I'm not trying to win her over, just give my side.
• Regarding the conversation with the girl from Exhibit C in the bar last night...I didn't go to her; she came to me - twice. The second time around was while I was just sitting, sipping, in "observational mode", so I let her say what she wanted to say. One of the suggestions was to loudly say "I have nothing to say to you" and continue ignoring and moving away from her. Maybe that would've gone better, maybe not.
• Regarding the girl with the fake phone number...as others have stated - which I also advise - calling it in front of her to verify. I did, but at this point, her other friend was pulling her along, so I didn't get her to stick around long enough to check that. Not a major point, just something else annoying to add to the night.
• Regarding the heavy drinking...there's probably some validity to that. At this bar, I'm close with most of the bartenders, so they hook me up when they serve me. This usually means my drinks are all doubles, and I'm not paying for most of them. I'm a big guy with a high tolerance, but this is probably affecting my judgment, yeah. I'm not blacking out, forgetting parts of the night, puking, or pissing myself, but it is true that I probably wouldn't have a similar issue at another bar. I can certainly moderate. I'd just say sometimes I'm overconfident.
• Regarding the "vibe" of the bar...one thing I DID note in "observation mode" is that nobody is really hooking up with anybody. Girls are letting guys talk to them and buy them drinks. Guys are standing around with friends, just drinking and looking around. There is very little interplay. I saw only one couple making out in a dark corner, and I saw almost no guys leave with a girl. The bar isn't a "chill and relaxed" vibe - it's busy, packed closely together, with loud rap and hip hop music playing. Though, as mentioned before, even by the bartenders, this is the first year where there's regularly been no line to get in. It's also been the first year I've seen them cut sections early. Whether that's because these kids are going to an afterparty or just lack social skills and are headed home early, I'm not sure.
• Regarding going into "observation mode"...yeah, that didn't go well for me. After 40 or so minutes just sitting at the bar, pretending to give a sh** about whatever game was on, and just scanning around, looking at who was there started to feel like a waste of time. I didn't have anybody "poke the bear", so with about an hour before close, I decided to walk around a bit, which led to the night I described.
• Regarding "those who can't do, teach", and that I should "already know"...I'm just having a bad time recently. I still know what I'm doing: @nicksaiz65 just hooked up with his former FWB again after I helped him see what she was really doing when she got mad at him and "no longer wanted to see him" after he hit on another coworker - he was going to cut her off and just next her. I helped my buddy by texting on his behalf, and he almost got laid, if not for the fact that his girl fell asleep because he took too long. And I predicted what was going to happen with @Divorced w 3 and his ex in the no contact thread with a pretty high degree of accuracy. I'm not without mistakes, and don't think being really good at something means that I'd be perfect, but I'm just having a bad time. I've still been successful; that last LR was only 3 weeks ago. I'm just dealing with a lot more BS that's starting to put me in a poor mental state, and making me sloppy.

What I've been reflecting on is the WHAT, WHERE, WHEN, and to a lesser extent, WHY of this problem...

WHAT: I'm dealing with an uncharacteristically high level of BS to have a positive result with these college girls at the nearby bars where I've been historically quite successful.

WHERE: I'm dealing with this BS almost exclusively at this singular college bar. And I'm dealing with this singular college bar because I have the best relationship with the staff, where I skip lines, get served quickly, and get served "extra".

WHEN: This has only been happening over the course of the last 2 months, since school started back up and the bar became busy again. Before that, I wasn't having issues in Philadelphia or Ocean City.

WHY: Due to my age. I'd made posts about this as early as when I was 28, I think, and now that I'm in another decade, it seems worse. Regardless of how I look or act, a lot of girls in this bar think it is weird or creepy that I am not pursuing women my own age, as evidenced by some comments on that Tea app. That app is an additional WHY. That big, ugly post about me has been live for almost a full year. My red flag count is high, and whoever posted me tagged me for Delaware, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and Maryland. I'm highly visible, and while this is the first time this app has impacted me DIRECTLY, I have no clue who else might've made their decision about me based off that comment.

SOLUTION: This cycle of dealing with bad behavior has put me in a poor headspace, even despite my recent success, and I'm getting sloppy. I feel like I'm trying to force a square peg through a round hole. I only default to this bar because it is the closest to me, often has a decent turnout of good-looking women, and I have great relationships with the staff, which benefits me. The women being younger and the age gap being larger is a byproduct of not having great alternatives to meet attractive women - not by virtue of them just being younger. The simple tradeoff is going to be traveling further, at greater expense and inconvenience, so that I won't be wasting my time and resources on this bad behavior. Others have already suggested this, but I wanted to try making an appearance and showing that I haven't been run off by this girl's comments - as stated before, it would be like an admission of guilt. But if I'm going to fight an uphill battle anytime a girl asks me my age or who I'm there with, it's not worth repeating the cycle I'm in now.

Not to beat a dead horse since it is more than 10 pages and I am sure you moved on, but two points:

1. When people are new in a social circle, like at work or school, their differences make them interesting and can make others feel their lives are boring, which helps in attraction. But once they become regular members, that novelty fades. If they don’t share much in common such as age, education, or background, they can get pushed out because they are no longer exciting and may even be seen as a threat.
   
   
2. Timing matters when revealing personal details, like living with parents. These should only be disclosed when the other person is clearly falling for them. Too early, and it can make them seem pathetic or like they’re fishing for sympathy, even if you've slept with them.

 

[BeExcellent]

I'd simply echo what others have emphasized: Welcome to the Jungle. This is how it has always been throughout human history. You need to better understand the landscape as well as where you currently fit into it.

Women, as the physically weaker sex (and as the gender that gets laid up with pregnancy and childbirth and very young helpless children) must rely on influence over others and cunning in order to survive. Women are not designed to physically compete with men. So the evolutionary scripting is different. That is why security is so important for women. It is a subconscious drive & need.

The reason the living at mom & dad's thing at your age is so detrimental is that it does smack of immaturity and 'failure to launch'. You are dealing with aspirational women (graduating and moving toward next chapter career goals, moving to NYC to perform professionally for a NBA organization, etc.) These women are taking the steps to provide financial security for themselves, and through that lens in comparison, they don't want to get bogged down with a guy who, even though handsome, does NOT have his act together and is not living independent of parents. They don't want a man child.

Your experience would be very different if you were a lawyer or doctor or business person with the beginnings of success and/or aspirations that are observable. These women would ignore the age gap if that were true and none of these issues would be occurring.

That is simply life.

My 20 year old daughter lives independently, works full time as a server and is also a full time student. I do pay her tuition at community college, which she is doing to save $ and get her first 2 years done inexpensively before transferring all hours toward her 4 year degree at a major state school. She makes about 4K per month, pays her own rent, bills, car expenses, entertainment, school supplies and all other expenses. She has over 15K in savings, mostly saved from her high school jobs.

She would see someone in your shoes with a 4 year degree but not on your own with your act together the same as the local college girls do. Are they silly? Absolutely. On the one hand there are ways to handle the disrespect, but there are reasons you are running into this, and those are legitimate objections to a woman with her act together and/or from a family who expects a man to take care of their daughter, or at the very least to be able to take care of himself. Those are not your optics right now. Facts.

You've got to understand that as affecting your current reality and you've got to expect more from yourself. I understand you are building a business to assist other men toward success with women. But your living situation IS holding you back and does cause women not to take you seriously. Facts.

If you were to move elsewhere (away from under mom & dad's roof) this dynamic would immediately resolve itself, but you would likely assign it to the location change. But that wouldn't account for the living independently aspect, which is huge.

Nevermind that to some degree or other you've got to follow the rules at your parents house. I mean are they Ok with you banging different girls every weekend & doing whatever you please? Nope.

So you are making decisions that, in your mind, are financially advantageous, but are detrimental to your mating environment. Understand that, own that. Either you frame it better (very tough) or you change your priorities. You cannot have it both ways. I'd live independent and figure out how to support yourself. Having a roommate would be better imo than living at your parents. Yes there are costs involved. Life is expensive.

Women who have their act together do not relate to men who don't. That is your biggest hurdle and it is a legitimate objection, but one you continue to reject as fact and justify/rationalize.

All the game in the world will not overcome that & much of your current frustration is directly correlated to that. It will improve your credibility immensely to have your own digs.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I understand you are building a business to assist other men toward success with women. But your living situation IS holding you back and does cause women not to take you seriously

Women and everyone else. While I'm sure we all appreciate @BPH's desire to be of service to other men, he's currently afflicted with the same flaws that've exposed 98% of The Manosphere as The Red Pill equivalent of TD Jakes

A quick glance over most of these fella's private lives reveals that they possess almost ZERO of the traits our species has deemed "alpha" throughout our history

 

[Sega Genesis]

Very well said @BeExcellent , similar to what I've been saying but more eloquent.

I also noticed you "liked" my post about my brother but also "liked" @BPH response which I take to mean you can appreciate both sides?
Which is cool.

That said @BPH I'm not understanding the meaning of this comment (below).

Have you never had a woman ask you to buy her a drink? I always thought it was pretty standard, of course context matters.

And also what's in bold. Is this truly what you believe when you buy a woman a drink? That you're paying for her time and attention as if to suggest her time is more valuable? Again I realize context matters.

I simply view it as a gallant and gentlemanly thing to do regardless of whether she is joining you on your nightly journey.

It's how I and my brothers were raised.

Anyway, can you clarify?

Additionally, I already didn't like how this girl immediately jumped into "wanna buy us a drink" - I'm not opposed to paying a woman's way if I'm taking her on this journey of a night with me, but I hate the concept of paying for a woman's time and attention, as if hers is more valuable than mine.

 

[BeExcellent]

Final thought....this past week I went on a short cruise with one of my sisters. She's an early bird & I'm a night owl, so a couple of nights we went for a drink & some live music but she ditched me early. So I enjoyed the music & observed the social dynamics.

After the band finshed playing the musicians came up to the bar for a nightcap. The bass player is 30 years old, been playing cruise contracts for 5 years, met his LTR aboard ship. Very handsome black guy, gf is a very pretty white girl. He was extremely game aware, very smart dude, got into cruises to be able to make a great living doing something he loves & enjoyed the social component as well. The guitarist has been doing cruise contracts for 11 years, still single, age early 40s and enjoys what he does.

Think outside the box about how to expand your social reach & your professional prospects. Many industries look for socially attenuated positive people and perhaps you can do something different that allows you more opportunities than you can see right now from where you sit.

And yes @Sega Genesis I do appreciate both sides (both your brother's perspective as well as BPH's....but your brother is more mature and evolved and has far greater outcome independence...something OP needs to evolve toward)...

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Final thought....this past week I went on a short cruise with one of my sisters. She's an early bird & I'm a night owl, so a couple of nights we went for a drink & some live music but she ditched me early. So I enjoyed the music & observed the social dynamics.

After the band finshed playing the musicians came up to the bar for a nightcap. The bass player is 30 years old, been playing cruise contracts for 5 years, met his LTR aboard ship. Very handsome black guy, gf is a very pretty white girl. He was extremely game aware, very smart dude, got into cruises to be able to make a great living doing something he loves & enjoyed the social component as well. The guitarist has been doing cruise contracts for 11 years, still single, age early 40s and enjoys what he does.

Think outside the box about how to expand your social reach & your professional prospects. Many industries look for socially attenuated positive people and perhaps you can do something different that allows you more opportunities than you can see right now from where you sit.

And yes @Sega Genesis I do appreciate both sides (both your brother's perspective as well as BPH's....but your brother is more mature and evolved and has far greater outcome independence...something OP needs to evolve toward)...

Imo @BPH could do well working at one of the Valley area resorts. Florida as well, but AZ would likely be a better bet financially and game-wise.

He'd be wise to be less personally revealing with his coaching biz though.

 

[nicksaiz65]

I remember reading your old fr's if I recall correctly, you had to drive 40-60 minutes and you were going to Nashville right?

I gotta commend you bro, you got people who have been on the this forum for over 15 years and arer sitll paying for only fans models. Your progress is amazing you should do a full thread breaking it down from the logistics of being with your friend to your lifestyle now

Yep, was driving around an hour there and back.

Thank you! I can write up about the journey and how a small town just doesn’t compare for game.

 

[nicksaiz65]

I'd simply echo what others have emphasized: Welcome to the Jungle. This is how it has always been throughout human history. You need to better understand the landscape as well as where you currently fit into it.

Women, as the physically weaker sex (and as the gender that gets laid up with pregnancy and childbirth and very young helpless children) must rely on influence over others and cunning in order to survive. Women are not designed to physically compete with men. So the evolutionary scripting is different. That is why security is so important for women. It is a subconscious drive & need.

The reason the living at mom & dad's thing at your age is so detrimental is that it does smack of immaturity and 'failure to launch'. You are dealing with aspirational women (graduating and moving toward next chapter career goals, moving to NYC to perform professionally for a NBA organization, etc.) These women are taking the steps to provide financial security for themselves, and through that lens in comparison, they don't want to get bogged down with a guy who, even though handsome, does NOT have his act together and is not living independent of parents. They don't want a man child.

Your experience would be very different if you were a lawyer or doctor or business person with the beginnings of success and/or aspirations that are observable. These women would ignore the age gap if that were true and none of these issues would be occurring.

That is simply life.

My 20 year old daughter lives independently, works full time as a server and is also a full time student. I do pay her tuition at community college, which she is doing to save $ and get her first 2 years done inexpensively before transferring all hours toward her 4 year degree at a major state school. She makes about 4K per month, pays her own rent, bills, car expenses, entertainment, school supplies and all other expenses. She has over 15K in savings, mostly saved from her high school jobs.

She would see someone in your shoes with a 4 year degree but not on your own with your act together the same as the local college girls do. Are they silly? Absolutely. On the one hand there are ways to handle the disrespect, but there are reasons you are running into this, and those are legitimate objections to a woman with her act together and/or from a family who expects a man to take care of their daughter, or at the very least to be able to take care of himself. Those are not your optics right now. Facts.

You've got to understand that as affecting your current reality and you've got to expect more from yourself. I understand you are building a business to assist other men toward success with women. But your living situation IS holding you back and does cause women not to take you seriously. Facts.

If you were to move elsewhere (away from under mom & dad's roof) this dynamic would immediately resolve itself, but you would likely assign it to the location change. But that wouldn't account for the living independently aspect, which is huge.

Nevermind that to some degree or other you've got to follow the rules at your parents house. I mean are they Ok with you banging different girls every weekend & doing whatever you please? Nope.

So you are making decisions that, in your mind, are financially advantageous, but are detrimental to your mating environment. Understand that, own that. Either you frame it better (very tough) or you change your priorities. You cannot have it both ways. I'd live independent and figure out how to support yourself. Having a roommate would be better imo than living at your parents. Yes there are costs involved. Life is expensive.

Women who have their act together do not relate to men who don't. That is your biggest hurdle and it is a legitimate objection, but one you continue to reject as fact and justify/rationalize.

All the game in the world will not overcome that & much of your current frustration is directly correlated to that. It will improve your credibility immensely to have your own digs.

@BPH Is it possible to work full time & do the business on evenings and weekends?

I remember you saying you paid off your student loans. That’s incredible(I’m still paying on mine.)

Rent is high these days but I think if you worked a 40 hour week, plus the income from the business, it would be possible to get an apartment with a roommate, that should be enough to clear the 3x rent rule

 

[BeExcellent]

Imo @BPH could do well working at one of the Valley area resorts. Florida as well, but AZ would likely be a better bet financially and game-wise.

He'd be wise to be less personally revealing with his coaching biz though.

Agreed @BillyPilgrim . He needs to get his hiney down here. Weather better; chicks prettier.

 

[BPH]

Not to beat a dead horse since it is more than 10 pages and I am sure you moved on, but two points:

1. When people are new in a social circle, like at work or school, their differences make them interesting and can make others feel their lives are boring, which helps in attraction. But once they become regular members, that novelty fades. If they don’t share much in common such as age, education, or background, they can get pushed out because they are no longer exciting and may even be seen as a threat.
   
   
2. Timing matters when revealing personal details, like living with parents. These should only be disclosed when the other person is clearly falling for them. Too early, and it can make them seem pathetic or like they’re fishing for sympathy, even if you've slept with them.

I can partially agree with your first point; I have very little in common with these girls, and they haven't really "lived life" yet. As for the second point, I'm not leading with that information unless I'm asked, and I'm almost never asked...they'll ask me if I go to school there, then when I say I've graduated, they'll ask me how old I am. That's the point where I'll either get a girl who's cool with that and doesn't mind...or she'll start asking why I'm at a college bar.

I'd simply echo what others have emphasized: Welcome to the Jungle. This is how it has always been throughout human history. You need to better understand the landscape as well as where you currently fit into it.

Women, as the physically weaker sex (and as the gender that gets laid up with pregnancy and childbirth and very young helpless children) must rely on influence over others and cunning in order to survive. Women are not designed to physically compete with men. So the evolutionary scripting is different. That is why security is so important for women. It is a subconscious drive & need.

The reason the living at mom & dad's thing at your age is so detrimental is that it does smack of immaturity and 'failure to launch'. You are dealing with aspirational women (graduating and moving toward next chapter career goals, moving to NYC to perform professionally for a NBA organization, etc.) These women are taking the steps to provide financial security for themselves, and through that lens in comparison, they don't want to get bogged down with a guy who, even though handsome, does NOT have his act together and is not living independent of parents. They don't want a man child.

Your experience would be very different if you were a lawyer or doctor or business person with the beginnings of success and/or aspirations that are observable. These women would ignore the age gap if that were true and none of these issues would be occurring.

That is simply life.

My 20 year old daughter lives independently, works full time as a server and is also a full time student. I do pay her tuition at community college, which she is doing to save $ and get her first 2 years done inexpensively before transferring all hours toward her 4 year degree at a major state school. She makes about 4K per month, pays her own rent, bills, car expenses, entertainment, school supplies and all other expenses. She has over 15K in savings, mostly saved from her high school jobs.

She would see someone in your shoes with a 4 year degree but not on your own with your act together the same as the local college girls do. Are they silly? Absolutely. On the one hand there are ways to handle the disrespect, but there are reasons you are running into this, and those are legitimate objections to a woman with her act together and/or from a family who expects a man to take care of their daughter, or at the very least to be able to take care of himself. Those are not your optics right now. Facts.

You've got to understand that as affecting your current reality and you've got to expect more from yourself. I understand you are building a business to assist other men toward success with women. But your living situation IS holding you back and does cause women not to take you seriously. Facts.

If you were to move elsewhere (away from under mom & dad's roof) this dynamic would immediately resolve itself, but you would likely assign it to the location change. But that wouldn't account for the living independently aspect, which is huge.

Nevermind that to some degree or other you've got to follow the rules at your parents house. I mean are they Ok with you banging different girls every weekend & doing whatever you please? Nope.

So you are making decisions that, in your mind, are financially advantageous, but are detrimental to your mating environment. Understand that, own that. Either you frame it better (very tough) or you change your priorities. You cannot have it both ways. I'd live independent and figure out how to support yourself. Having a roommate would be better imo than living at your parents. Yes there are costs involved. Life is expensive.

Women who have their act together do not relate to men who don't. That is your biggest hurdle and it is a legitimate objection, but one you continue to reject as fact and justify/rationalize.

All the game in the world will not overcome that & much of your current frustration is directly correlated to that. It will improve your credibility immensely to have your own digs.

I agree and understand that my living situation is a red flag to most women. The reason I justify/rationalize it is because I don't usually get to that point - I'm having these experiences (at least at this bar, this year) when I'm asked my age, followed by "what are you doing at a college bar?" followed by "what are you doing by yourself?"

I know this is something I need to address, but we're not getting far enough for that information to be known.

Women and everyone else. While I'm sure we all appreciate @BPH's desire to be of service to other men, he's currently afflicted with the same flaws that've exposed 98% of The Manosphere as The Red Pill equivalent of TD Jakes

A quick glance over most of these fella's private lives reveals that they possess almost ZERO of the traits our species has deemed "alpha" throughout our history

I have no idea who T.D. Jakes is, so I don't understand this comparison at all.

Very well said @BeExcellent , similar to what I've been saying but more eloquent.

I also noticed you "liked" my post about my brother but also "liked" @BPH response which I take to mean you can appreciate both sides?
Which is cool.

That said @BPH I'm not understanding the meaning of this comment (below).

Have you never had a woman ask you to buy her a drink? I always thought it was pretty standard, of course context matters.

And also what's in bold. Is this truly what you believe when you buy a woman a drink? That you're paying for her time and attention as if to suggest her time is more valuable? Again I realize context matters.

I simply view it as a gallant and gentlemanly thing to do regardless of whether she is joining you on your nightly journey.

It's how I and my brothers were raised.

Anyway, can you clarify?

I've been asked before by women to buy them a drink, but I don't remember who any of them were because I don't believe I've ever indulged them.

Generally, if a woman asks me to buy her a drink, it's early in the conversation, before I've decided whether I like her, and if she's asking, my thought is that I'm not enough on my own, and need to add an embellishment for her to continue spending time with.

For clarification, I am fine with buying a woman I'm interested in a drink...but that happens when I'm already enjoying the night with her, and I invite her along to have a drink WITH me (such as a shot), rather than it being a requirement to talk to her.

NONE of the women I can think of off the top of my head who were really interested and made it easy for me asked me to buy them a drink. In fact, there are several who bought ME a drink (my long-term ex I met out in Atlantic City, the girl recently from Ocean City, if you want specific examples).

I will usually view the women who ask me that as being low interest, and move on accordingly.

 

[BPH]

Had to break this into 2 replies due to character limit. Not sure how much of that is based on the quotes...

Final thought....this past week I went on a short cruise with one of my sisters. She's an early bird & I'm a night owl, so a couple of nights we went for a drink & some live music but she ditched me early. So I enjoyed the music & observed the social dynamics.

After the band finshed playing the musicians came up to the bar for a nightcap. The bass player is 30 years old, been playing cruise contracts for 5 years, met his LTR aboard ship. Very handsome black guy, gf is a very pretty white girl. He was extremely game aware, very smart dude, got into cruises to be able to make a great living doing something he loves & enjoyed the social component as well. The guitarist has been doing cruise contracts for 11 years, still single, age early 40s and enjoys what he does.

Think outside the box about how to expand your social reach & your professional prospects. Many industries look for socially attenuated positive people and perhaps you can do something different that allows you more opportunities than you can see right now from where you sit.

And yes @Sega Genesis I do appreciate both sides (both your brother's perspective as well as BPH's....but your brother is more mature and evolved and has far greater outcome independence...something OP needs to evolve toward)...

That's what I'm working on. Last week, working from home, I was able to record, edit, and upload content every day, and managed to pick up another client. I had another guy who booked a call, no-showed, but apologized via email, so he may reschedule in the future.
With the part-time hours and ability to work remotely, I feel like I have the time and energy to work on this.

Imo @BPH could do well working at one of the Valley area resorts. Florida as well, but AZ would likely be a better bet financially and game-wise.

He'd be wise to be less personally revealing with his coaching biz though.

I don't think it matters...my co-worker called me today and asked if I had a TikTok. I have one for the business, but not for me personally. It's under a different name, follows nobody, and has zero followers...yet somehow I'm popping up in her feed.

@BPH Is it possible to work full time & do the business on evenings and weekends?

I remember you saying you paid off your student loans. That’s incredible(I’m still paying on mine.)

Rent is high these days but I think if you worked a 40 hour week, plus the income from the business, it would be possible to get an apartment with a roommate, that should be enough to clear the 3x rent rule

Technically, yes, but practically, probably not. The reason I considered quitting and downgraded to part-time is that I didn't have the time or energy to put into this. I'd commute, work my full day, have my boss regularly chew me out over a problem I didn't create, go to the gym for about an hour and a half, then pass out for about an hour after I'd eaten and showered. I found it very hard to be productive after that...even earlier in the day now that it's nighttime at about 4 or 5PM.

Waa waa waa, excuses, right? You could say that, but the current trajectory wasn't working for me. That income is capped, and can take me nowhere. The current structure allows me to still have some income while also having time and energy to work on something I'm much better at, enjoy doing more, and can substantially improve my pay.

Agreed @BillyPilgrim . He needs to get his hiney down here. Weather better; chicks prettier.

This is something I actually really want to do, maybe even with my brother. I'd been in the DMs with you about this, but now that I'm fully remote and have few expenses, it becomes a much more realistic option.

I could probably move out and get a place in Philly today if I really had to. It's the cheapest of my close-ish options, it just comes with an awful lot of surrounding violent crime.

 

[Plinco]

So I'm going to chime in with my two cents again here.

My personal experience, I left my parents house to live on my own at the age of 20, back in 2004. Back then rent was $400/month, and I was able to work part time, afford to live on my own with roommates and go to college. There were periods where I was self-employed too. Today, living costs are a lot more expensive, and I'd say @BPH you're very lucky to have parents that would allow you to live with them as long as you have. My parents would not have allowed me to do that. I'm sure they are looking forward to being empty nesters.

Personally I'd work towards being completely independent, like being the captain of your own ship. I know you want to be an entrepreneur, and if this situation is bothering you, this could be a fantastic opportunity for you to start hustling and growing beyond your dreams. I spoke with you a few days ago about your vision. I thought your vision was too narrow, as in it lacked a deep passion to motivate you to be the best in the world. There's users on here who have insinuated that I was delusional (@BackInTheGame78 , @justaroundthecorner , and probably a few others), call it whatever you want, I believe one of the secrets to success is having the attitude to think big and kick a$$, and fvck the naysayers; it's worked for me on more than one occasion. I had a vision to guide me, and to prove other people wrong is the icing on the cake (unfortunately, the most of the people who opposed you won't acknowledge it, so get ready for that).

I think your situation is an opportunity in disguise. My advice is to start with a big vision, like dig deep down and find what and why you are passionate to become who you want to be (not 'what' but 'who'); then plan rationally and take action. If I were a dating coach, I would tell people that my job is to fix the demographic situation in the west, like being a matchmaker on a big scale. Tell them that you are working to save the west from demographic collapse.

Also, failure is just delayed success. If you're doing what you really believe in doing, then you'll perceive those failures along the way as just temporary set backs.

 

[BeExcellent]

I concur wth @Plinco on the big vision part and on his professional encouragement. Read my thread over in Wealth & Success titled Success Starts Between Your Ears. Many people were negative to me when I went into business.

I silenced them by being a success despite their opinions, which I dismissed. Read the thread.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I have no idea who T.D. Jakes is, so I don't understand this comparison at all.

As has been said elsewhere, The Manosphere has essentially become church for men, and a variation of what's long made Black Anerican reverends easy to satirize https://www.nytimes.com/1964/07/12/...the-negro-minister-he-is-traditionally-a.html
"...the stereotype of pompous behavior. fried chicken and expensive automobiles with which they were once identified") is no less true of 98% of all Red Pill Ayatollahs, dating coaches, etc etc...

Most of these fellas code as "Schmuck", almost instaneously, the minute one sets eyes upon them. It's my hope that you, @BPH and other emerging voices will defy the stereotypes associated with fellas who either emerged from, or were at one time affiliated with Red Pill Thought

 

[Divorced w 3]

The hardest thing for me / what I get from this is just a simple belief in myself. I’ve been doing CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) via the Liven app and it’s only been a couple days but I’ve been able to turn my mood around including not popping an anxiety pill for almost three days now. Belief in myself and my own worth and forgiving myself has created some peace and calmness. My two cents. Obviously you don’t find most things until you hit rock bottom but I wish I found this years ago. What can you do.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I concur wth @Plinco on the big vision part and on his professional encouragement. Read my thread over in Wealth & Success titled Success Starts Between Your Ears. Many people were negative to me when I went into business.

I silenced them by being a success despite their opinions, which I dismissed. Read the thread.

I do too. My point is at this stage of his life, his goals should be far far more important than trying to pick up college chicks at a bar.

 

[Plinco]

I do too. My point is at this stage of his life, his goals should be far far more important than trying to pick up college chicks at a bar.

It's got nothing to do with whatever "stage of his life" concept, which is a bs concept, and it's a matter of him being more rational. Ayn Rand said it well when she said that sex is not the cause, but an effect and an expression of a man’s sense of his own value. When a course of action is pursued, it begs the question of 'why.' Any change that @BPH makes must come from within himself and must be a better version of himself.

To the contrary, believing in this 'stage of life concept' is an expression of a lack of maturity.
^^ @justaroundthecorner this is for you too.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

It's got nothing to do with whatever "stage of his life" concept, which is a bs concept, and it's a matter of him being more rational. Ayn Rand said it well when she said that sex is not the cause, but an effect and an expression of a man’s sense of his own value. When a course of action is pursued, it begs the question of 'why.' Any change that @BPH makes must come from within himself and must be a better version of himself.

To the contrary, believing in this 'stage of life concept' is an expression of a lack of maturity.
^^ @justaroundthecorner this is for you too.

No, it's simply called most men mature past the stage of the life you seem stuck in Peter Pan

 

[Plinco]

No, it's simply called most men mature past the stage of the life you seem stuck in Peter Pan

It takes maturity to focus yourself in spite of social pressures. You know this first hand, I saw your post in @BeExcellent 's thread "Success Starts Between Your Ears"

Like everything else of virtue, maturity is defined by an objective adherence to reality, not from what other people think.