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Anyone pull off LTR without marriage??

LiveFreeX

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Um if you actually paid attention to any of the other threads I post on, you'd be able to answer your own questions.
And you are the same dude who wanted to hide in Siberia?
I still do, rent is about $150/month for a nice 3 bedroom apartment.. I lived there once before, 3 years previous.
Nah. It's much "easier" than working on yourself for yourself and being socially competant and free.

Leaving the place you grew up, your own culture, family, friends, employment FOR A WOMAN.

Learning a new language. FOR A WOMAN.

Getting a new job, learning new laws, finding a place to live, trying to communicate and on and on....FOR A WOMAN.

NOT having ANY social skills or working on yourself but expecting the East to bow down to your "western" needs. FOR YOUR NEED TO HAVE A WOMAN.

Expecting to have an entire culture just "accept you for you" You don't have to learn their ways, their families, their societies just be the same fvck up from the West and they'll mold everything to your needs. LMAO
If you are going to spend all this time learning game then whats the difference? Yes I left FOR A WOMAN... I wanted the highest quality and you won't find that in the West. The thing is 411, now you sound like a western woman. Why would any man try to dissuade another man from getting quality girls? No we should pour hours and hours into game for exactly the same result or less?
You are so lazy. Why not think of this as a great adventure instead of some horrible ordeal?
Are you even in the East? Are you even married to some Asian chick?
Have you even seen my other threads?
Winston Wu that you?
No he and I most certainly do not see eye to eye, but that guy pulls more tail than any of you, but its no better quality than any woman, born and raised in America. He only dates prostitutes.
 

The411

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LiveFreeX said:
Um if you actually paid attention to any of the other threads I post on, you'd be able to answer your own questions.


I still do, rent is about $150/month for a nice 3 bedroom apartment.. I lived there once before, 3 years previous.

You are so lazy. Why not think of this as a great adventure instead of some great ordeal?

Have you even seen my other threads?
Going on vacation to other countries is a great adventure. Specifically going to them to find a wife, live there is a totally different thing. It's pathetic.





LiveFreeX said:
No he and I most certainly do not see eye to eye, but that guy pulls more tail than any of you, but its no better quality than any woman, born and raised in America. He only dates prostitutes.
Paying for tail isn't "pulling tail" it's paying for it. For some dude to consider paying for tail equalling to him being able to "pull" more tail and get laid more is warped in his mind at best.

As if no other dude on the planet can't pay for prostitutes. Some get laid even more and don't have to fork out money specifically to get laid by women.

You cannot take a fact of life as spending money to go out and do things, building a life together as that chick equalling a "prostitute" as in specifically paying for sex. Otherwise anyone who works for their own money is a prostitute or anyone who deals with money period is a prostitute. Men, women or children and their allowance etc. Even your 'perfect' wife could be considered a 'prostitute' unless you never spent a dime on her and live off her. Than YOU are the prostitute.

But a dude like that who specifically pays money to have sex isn't pulling anything more but using his money to get sex from women whom take money from any man who could "pull" just as much.

For you to put in much more money into plane tickets, hotel stays, gas, getting a car, a new job, learning a new language, finding a place to live, learning a new custom and dealing with a completely different society as well as a chick who is a chick REGARDLESS of where she's from is pathetic at best. You are doing all that for a chick. Re-arranging your entire LIFE for a chick and there's STILL no guarantee it will all work out in the end.

The risks are much less greater here if you use common sense and are able to socialize. You take men who don't use common sense and are social outcasts, don't dress well, don't groom and work out etc. and toss them into a completely different world specifically for a chick "bride"? They are going to fvck themselves far greater than they could ever imagine.

Try that nonsense on dudes who are clueless and desperate. The rest of us aren't buying it. Especially those of us who've travelled to other countries and met chicks regardless with no sole intent of needing to go to search for the 'perfect' bride. Get real.
 

The411

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LiveFreeX said:
411 I can't speak to you anymore, you are a total fcking retard.

Of course. Because this 'retard' has completely derailed, and destroyed your delusional weak nonsense. How does it feel to be slapped around by a retard? :kick:

Who knows. Perhaps you'll set up a "DJ Boot Camp" field trip of your own with 'real men' in some rice paddy while pretending you aren't picking up women whom you percieve as having nothing going for them in their simple lives and you being their Western white knight "saviors". :crackup:
 

Tenacity

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Live Free, I been trying to talk to you but you have to clear space in your inbox.
 

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LiveFreeX

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I concede. All PUAs should stay in America and only date North American women and learn game and never move away. You are right, I am wrong.

I no longer consider myself a PUA, Danger take the lead and tell everyone how to be. I'll take my BETA ass back to China in about 2 days and live happily ever after in marital bliss completely devoid of any/all game/**** tests/negs/peacocking/jerks/pnd/alpha/beta/zeta/red pill/blue pill.. now go ahead and continue bashing marriage and children. I've got to go a make a few kids with my wife, in my committed, govt approved LTR, that is completely boring as I only get to have sex with one woman AND I love her... a lot.

Less America in the world is what we need anyway. You have completely convinced me. What a sick, perverted society you are, you deserve each other.
 

The411

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LiveFreeX said:
I concede. All PUAs should stay in America and only date North American women and learn game and never move away. You are right, I am wrong.

I no longer consider myself a PUA, Danger take the lead and tell everyone how to be. I'll take my BETA ass back to China in about 2 days and live happily ever after in marital bliss completely devoid of any/all game/**** tests/negs/peacocking/jerks/pnd/alpha/beta/zeta/red pill/blue pill.. now go ahead and continue bashing marriage and children. I've got to go a make a few kids with my wife, in my committed, govt approved LTR, that is completely boring as I only get to have sex with one woman AND I love her... a lot.

Less America in the world is what we need anyway. You have completely convinced me. What a sick, perverted society you are, you deserve each other.
For someone so happy and content in foreign paradise with your loving wife and making kids you sure do worry obssessively about the West and what other men are doing or not doing in it.

You might want to focus more on your wife, marriage and kids than worrying about hating the West. It seems like the West and men in the west live and are married in the relationship with you and your wife.


For anyone else whom desires to be a Live'free' whom can't himself seem to break free of the West while living in paradise with his wife.

Quit your job.

Sell your possessions.

Leave your families and friends.

Don't bother improving yourselves for you.

Be the same dude you are here in China while magically transforming to a 'better' man abroad.

Learn Chinese.

Learn their currency.

Buy a one way plane ticket.

Set up residence in China or abroad.

Adapt to their culture, laws, customs and LIKE it.

Go out and find yourself a wife.

Follow their families rules as you are not a Westerner anymore (even though the rest of China isn't as deluded as you are.)

And complete this and more while visiting message boards convincing other men to join you in paradise while denouncing the west at every turn because you are perfectly content in the East.
 

LiveFreeX

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My happiness is directly linked to me getting the fvck out of the insanity of the West, yours is participating in it.
 

The411

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LiveFreeX said:
My happiness is directly linked to me getting the fvck out of the insanity of the West, yours is participating in it.

Yet you still cannot restrain yourself from commenting on the 'insanity' of the West while living in paradise. So much for removing yourself from it.
 

Reyaj

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Have to bump this thread. Absolutely a great debate here with a lot of good information. I spent the last 2 hours trying to read through and didn't finish yet. I am exhausted though but I definitely want to keep this discussion going.

For now let me ask what I believe is a very important question and where I'd like to start from.... I believe starting here will allow us to start at the root and grow the discussion into whether or not the institution of marriage is prudent.

Let's put the concept of marriage aside for a moment and pretend it doesn't exist.

Are we as men meant to be with "1" woman for the rest of our lives? - Would love to hear everyone's views!
 

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Have to bump this thread. Absolutely a great debate here with a lot of good information. I spent the last 2 hours trying to read through and didn't finish yet. I am exhausted though but I definitely want to keep this discussion going.

For now let me ask what I believe is a very important question and where I'd like to start from.... I believe starting here will allow us to start at the root and grow the discussion into whether or not the institution of marriage is prudent.

Let's put the concept of marriage aside for a moment and pretend it doesn't exist.

Are we as men meant to be with "1" woman for the rest of our lives? - Would love to hear everyone's views!
You can be in a "committed" relationship without marrying someone. However some states recognize "common law" so if you co-habitate for a long enough period the wife can take you to court on some things if you split up.

They key of being in a "committed" relationship is establishing balance, and meeting each others needs. This should all be discussed.
 

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You can be in a "committed" relationship without marrying someone. However some states recognize "common law" so if you co-habitate for a long enough period the wife can take you to court on some things if you split up.

They key of being in a "committed" relationship is establishing balance, and meeting each others needs. This should all be discussed.
You can also get ALL your needs met out of this committed relationship, save time, and benefit both of your lives due to the "arrangement" and sharing of responsibilities.

I've been in good relationships where we are hot for each other, and the sex gets better every single time, for years, because we are always striving to improve... Much better than one night stand, rotisserie type sex.
 

mrgoodstuff

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Yes

We are meant to be with one woman for the purpose of raising stable children. This has been the norm in civilization since the beginning. The fact that this is a STRUGGLE is also the norm and a sign of human nature. It comes with the territory. It is NOT a sign that being with one woman is abnormal, because it does not follow that something is abnormal because it is hard.
Man also in the natural sense develops an affinity for the one he lays down with the most often. He would want to kill or seriously hurt competing males to protect his woman.
 

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Okay, I don't understand. Is marriage and/or cohabitation the only type of relationship structure that we can have to fulfill and live out our "loving" relationship? I don't think that's the case.

Not everybody wants to move in together (I need space), get a dog (I hate dogs), or buy a house/condo (me personally I have opted out of buying a house/condo). I don't see how we MUST live together and buy real estate to fulfill a loving relationship? So when I meet her and she's already bought her house, she's supposed to put it on the market, take a loss, just to move in with me?




The risks we are looking to mitigate are financial risks, not the risk of her "breaking our little hearts" through dumping us.

Understand something here, the problem isn't that a relationship went bad or we fell out of love, the problem is having worked for 25 years and now you are 55 and your "Soul Mate," your "The One," and your "Person That God Sent To You Specifically," is taking you through Divorce Court in a financially devastating process. The costs for Attorneys, Accountants, Alimony, Asset Splits, etc. are devastating. Your mental health goes out of whack which hurts your performance at work, her allegations might also cause you to LOSE your position at work. I mean the situation is so devastating that at the age of 55 you might have to START OVER from scratch. You would have worked all your life and now have it all TAKEN away from you. You would be on the burge of suicide. Why do you think Robin Williams committed suicide? Ex-wives.

That's the risk we are trying to avoid.

It's a fallacy at best based on societal and religious programming, that you cannot have a "fulfilling" relationship with a woman outside of a marriage contract. It's as if once you sign a marriage contract the woman is supposed to MORPH into this ultimate female goddess? And the only way you can experience her awesome powers is to rub the "marriage lamp"? There are no benefits that a woman provides for a man inside of marriage, that he doesn't receive OUTSIDE of the marriage contract.
Tenacity
 

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SW15

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So, this is ultimately my goal if I eventually find a girl that I really click with. Gaming is fun and I don't mind all these different girls, but if it happens that I really, and I mean really click with one, I will obviously want to stick with only that lady. However, I will never get trapped within marriage again, EVER.

So just wondering if any of you have had any luck with relationships like this, where the lady knows that you have no intentions on getting married and is perfectly happy with this? Just curious is all.
To answer the original question, I know a guy who is about to reach his 7 year anniversary of being in the same relationship with a woman. They have not married. They moved into an apartment together about 4 years ago. They have looked into buying a house as a couple this year. I have no idea if they’ll get married or not. I think he wants marriage and children more than she does. They would have moved in together into the apartment sooner if it were up to him. She postponed that milestone a bit.

I haven’t known any women who’ve stuck around with any men who had no intentions of ever getting married. It doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. One of my friends waited 5 years before even moving in with his girlfriend. He then put a ring on it within 6 months of them living together in an apartment. They got married and are still married. They have no children. It’s maybe 50-50 if they’ll be together in 10 years.

I bet there are a lot of girls these days who are more interested in the wedding than the actual marriage. They want the ceremony, the dress, the party, the being center of attention. Look at the popularity of programs about trying on wedding dresses and about putting together weddings and receptions. I'd wager a good many women are more interested in having their day than participatiing in a give and take marriage.
I agree with this 100%. The woman in the couple I just mentioned in the second block of text above likely fits this description. They had a huge wedding (slightly over 100 guests, I wasn’t there) and all she could talk about for 12-18 months was the wedding.


But what study are you getting these social, emotional and financial facts from, and do they represent the marketplace today in 2014/2015?

From what I've studied, today, married couples have lower sexual satisfaction compared to singles,

The data points that I have seen tend to demonstrate that married people have more frequent sex than unmarried people. This is because there is a large percentage of single men that have no sex for months on end. A married guy getting sex twice a month looks good in comparison. Neither scenario is all that good for the collective of men.
 

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To answer the original question, I know a guy who is about to reach his 7 year anniversary of being in the same relationship with a woman. They have not married. They moved into an apartment together about 4 years ago. They have looked into buying a house as a couple this year. I have no idea if they’ll get married or not. I think he wants marriage and children more than she does. They would have moved in together into the apartment sooner if it were up to him. She postponed that milestone a bit.

I haven’t known any women who’ve stuck around with any men who had no intentions of ever getting married. It doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. One of my friends waited 5 years before even moving in with his girlfriend. He then put a ring on it within 6 months of them living together in an apartment. They got married and are still married. They have no children. It’s maybe 50-50 if they’ll be together in 10 years.



I agree with this 100%. The woman in the couple I just mentioned in the second block of text above likely fits this description. They had a huge wedding (slightly over 100 guests, I wasn’t there) and all she could talk about for 12-18 months was the wedding.





The data points that I have seen tend to demonstrate that married people have more frequent sex than unmarried people. This is because there is a large percentage of single men that have no sex for months on end. A married guy getting sex twice a month looks good in comparison. Neither scenario is all that good for the collective of men.
20 yrs ago the avg was 1-2 a week for married men. Back then I thought all those men were starving.
 

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Simple. stick to your guns. If she keeps on badgering you for marriage or something more than you are willing to give, show her the door (as an option to her). Real life example, my brought up again the marriage topic, and I said, this was told to you from the beginning. You should think of this and know this is not going to happen. If this is no longer working for you, I understand. You are free to leave at any time. My stance has not changed and will not change any time soon. There is no benefit for me to get married. She didn't like the convo, but we ha sex after that, so there you go.
 

Lookatu

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I was one of those guys that had an 8 year relationship. There was hardly ever talks of marriage. Of course this was when I was in my 20's and we were both trying to get our careers off the ground first. Our sex lives were great too and I could get it anytime I wanted. It never got stale or boring. I think it takes a certain girl to think in this way and I'm sure it's not the norm.
 

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I was one of those guys that had an 8 year relationship. There was hardly ever talks of marriage. Of course this was when I was in my 20's and we were both trying to get our careers off the ground first. Our sex lives were great too and I could get it anytime I wanted. It never got stale or boring. I think it takes a certain girl to think in this way and I'm sure it's not the norm.
I ask you, what benefits are there for dudes in a marriage? Convince me.
 
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