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Anyone pull off LTR without marriage??

latinnova

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So, this is ultimately my goal if I eventually find a girl that I really click with. Gaming is fun and I don't mind all these different girls, but if it happens that I really, and I mean really click with one, I will obviously want to stick with only that lady. However, I will never get trapped within marriage again, EVER.

So just wondering if any of you have had any luck with relationships like this, where the lady knows that you have no intentions on getting married and is perfectly happy with this? Just curious is all.
 

Scaramouche

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Dear Latin,
How can anyone advise without knowing how Old you are?
 

latinnova

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Whoops, let add that I am 36. Yes I would live with the woman, that is if we most certainly clicked. Wedding, not too sure. There is far too much money thrown away on a wedding. Now if one day I did have that kind money to where its just a drop in the bucket, perhaps, but as of now then no, no wedding.

However, I am just wondering if any of you mature gentleman have had anything like this in your lives, for it's the only option in my books if I ever find a compatible companion.
 

Tenacity

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What State are you in? When you and a woman engage in cohabitation there are a lot of legal issues that revolve around that. Most of the time it's not as bad as marriage, but some states have Common Law marriages that are based on cohabitation.

Why do you need to move her in? Why can't you have your place, she has hers, and you guys take turns visiting each other's place?
 

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MOTU

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Latin, I am attempting that right now. I have a gf that I have been dating for about 5 months, exclusive for about two months. I like her a lot and she is a quality woman IMHO, but she has two young kids and mine are grown, so things between us won't progress beyond where they are now, at least not for a long, long time. So I am attempting to keep the status quo.

We have a good routine where she spends one night each weekend and if I am not traveling we may see each other one or two other times during the week. She works close to my house so I usually get an after work booty call when I am in town. I don't see her kids unless there is some event, like her birthday party I threw yesterday. I have no role in their lives.

I suspect that at some point she will want more, but we have agreed that we both like what we have and that we won't worry about the future. But long will that last? It would be both in her and her kids best interest for me to become more involved with her family stuff. But I am just not ready to do that.

I'll let you know how it turns out.
 

latinnova

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Tenacity said:
What State are you in? When you and a woman engage in cohabitation there are a lot of legal issues that revolve around that. Most of the time it's not as bad as marriage, but some states have Common Law marriages that are based on cohabitation.

Why do you need to move her in? Why can't you have your place, she has hers, and you guys take turns visiting each other's place?
I don't need too have anyone move in, but I was just saying that if I actually found a girl that clicks all and every single one of my buttons then I would most likely be ok with getting a place with her. In my state there are no laws that give a girlfriend any kind of rights to any of my possessions no matter how long we live together.

Keep in mind this is all hypothetical, I have not found a girl like this and most likely will not, but just in case I do then I just wanted to see if any of you were able to make an arrangement like this work out. Thanks for the info guys, keep it coming.
 

Tenacity

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Danger,

While I agree not ALL women are out to "get you," it's really not the main important thing of note here. The issue is that the market and society is so bad, that even a good apple could become spoiled and rotten in due time. That's where the risk comes in.

Me personally, I would never buy a house with a girl (not sure if buying a house with the way this country is going in general is a good idea, but that's another topic). What if she stops paying her portion? What if she loses her job and you have to pick up the slack? What if she breaks up with you and moves out and leaves you with the entire note?
 

jimmy18

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Lance Armstrong is currently pulling off an LTR without marriage despite being the most disgraced cyclist in history. You can too
 

In2theGame

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Tenacity said:
Danger,

While I agree not ALL women are out to "get you," it's really not the main important thing of note here. The issue is that the market and society is so bad, that even a good apple could become spoiled and rotten in due time. That's where the risk comes in.
Took the words right out of my mind 100%.
 

guru1000

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Ya, in a situation like that Danger, next time: Hold in escrow with a trustworthy attorney two executed, unrecorded quit-claim deeds with a separate written agreement with language as follows:

Should either party default in mortgage payments greater than 90 days, such party relinquishes their 50% interest in the property, and the respective quit-claim deed will be recorded in the local county awarding the grieved party 100% ownership of the property.

It wouldn't be fair otherwise, as if she defaults, you're now paying the whole mortgage with only 50% interest. You can effect this now, as long as she is willing to sign.
 

Scaramouche

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Dear Latin,
"Anyone pull off LTR without marriage?"...at 36 this is very possible,I have had one now for eight years,my Friend has had one going for thirty six years...Don't move in with them and you will except in extraordinary circumstances avoid repercussions from the Family Law Act...This form of Romance can stay fresh forever,in addition if you have friends with benefits on the side,you stay bright eyed and bushy tailed...nothing so ruins a Childless relationship than moving in with them...Familiarity breeds contempt!
 

LiveFreeX

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I threw away precisely $1.50 on my wedding, seeing as I never bought rings but I did end up tipping at dinner (Pizza Hut) [my mom paid] I would say the total was somewhere around $10 USD.

Who says you have to spend money to get married? I make the rules in my marriage. 4 years now, no problems.
 

Zarky

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Tenacity said:
What State are you in? When you and a woman engage in cohabitation there are a lot of legal issues that revolve around that. Most of the time it's not as bad as marriage, but some states have Common Law marriages that are based on cohabitation.
I'm against marriage, but this is absolute bunk.

Please educate yourself: http://www.unmarried.org/common-law-marriage-fact-sheet/

Even in the few states that recognize common-law marriage in any form, for it to take place you have to tell the community you're married, use the same last name, file joint tax returns, etc. Simply living together for X years doesn't make a man and woman husband and wife anywhere in the US.

I'm amazed this myth is still in circulation.
 

pumpkin-head

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Marriage has been the foundation and stronghold of values for centuries. We are on Earth for this very reason to procreate with marriage raising a family. Men who don't want to get married are either afraid of marriage or can't find a suitor to get married.
 

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Tenacity

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Zarky

I'm against marriage, but this is absolute bunk.

Please educate yourself: http://www.unmarried.org/common-law-...ge-fact-sheet/

Even in the few states that recognize common-law marriage in any form, for it to take place you have to tell the community you're married, use the same last name, file joint tax returns, etc. Simply living together for X years doesn't make a man and woman husband and wife anywhere in the US.

I'm amazed this myth is still in circulation.
Actually, it's up for interpretation by the Judge in the states that allow the Common Law marriages which are Alabama, Colorado, DC, Iowa, Kansas, Montana, New Hampshire, OK, Rhode Island, SC, TX and UT.

A better source for you to review is Nolo, but I would speak with an Attorney if you live in these states BEFORE moving a chick in.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/living-together-book/chapter2-4.html

Give or take, for the discussion of Common Law Marriage to come up, you have to have lived together for a certain period of time which isn't defined, and you have to "put out to society" that you are married in some capacity. That DOES NOT have to include filing joint tax returns, hell, you could just get on Facebook and list your status as "married," walk around with rings on, etc. It's really UP for interpretation at that point by the Judge.

And if the woman is out to SCREW YOU, she might get an attorney that argues for a Common Law Marriage for the time period you guys were together over the previous 5 years.

All I'm saying, if you move a chick in get a Legal Agreement, speak with an Attorney and make sure all of your ducks are in order. Also like guru said in relation to any shared assets, make sure that the partnership interest, requirements, procedures are lined out so in case she decides to STICK it to you, you are covered.

I'm not saying all women are evil, all I'm saying is that usually the woman that screws you isn't the woman at the beginning that's barking and growling at you "showing her teeth". That's the woman that even a blind man would stay away from and not move forward with. It's the women that are wagging their tail and "licking you" at the beginning, that end up BITING you in the a.ss towards the end.
 

Tenacity

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pumpkin-head

Marriage has been the foundation and stronghold of values for centuries. We are on Earth for this very reason to procreate with marriage raising a family. Men who don't want to get married are either afraid of marriage or can't find a suitor to get married.
I totally disagree. Let's call a spade a spade here, the only reason marriage was popular back in the day was due to three main reasons:

- The patriarchal society that we lived in
- There not being massive inflation
- Little to no advanced technology

People married back then because they HAD TO based on how society was structured. The patriarchal society meant that women couldn't legally do hardly anything other than assist the man with personal duties within the household. In some ways, the woman was apart of his "property". Seeing as though there wasn't massive inflation at that time, ONE PERSON could be the breadwinner for their family. So the man could work while the woman remained at home.

Speaking of being at home, there wasn't all of the advanced technology back then that we have today. Women had to cook from scratch, do REAL cleaning on their hands and knees as there wasn't much of any advanced home appliances/cleaning technology. So women had REAL duties to do in the house that needed to be done and actually took time, energy and effort to get done. The men would come home looking for a meal, and it wasn't as easy to just cook something up in 30 minutes like it is today, it most likely took hours to prepare a meal back then.

So the house was actually something that needed to be managed, THUS, the women managed the house while the man bought in the bacon.

On top of this, women were extremely loyal to men despite whatever flaws the men had, because her DIRECT survival depended on his labor and protection. So there were no "attitudes," "nagging," "shyt tests," and all this bullshyt we have today.

Today, however, all of this has changed.

- We live in a center-left society that embraces a matriarchal framework

- There's been massive inflation

- There's been serious advancements in technology

Society today has kept the best of patriarchy while trying to mix it with a promotion of a matriarchal framework. It still promotes men to work hard, die for their country, die for their women, die for their children, cater to their woman, provide for/protect their woman....all the WHILE not being able to LEAD their woman.

The women can make just as much or more money than a man can, there's been massive inflation so to support a family of four you NEED two adults working unless one adult is bringing in $100,000 solo which unless you are in the top 5% of income earners, you can forget about it.

Then there's been serious advancements in technology where "staying home" isn't required because it takes 30 minutes to cook a meal and 30-60 minutes to clean the ENTIRE house with all of the tools, machines, etc. that we have today.

There's no reason, other than religious programming, for a person to get married today. Neither partner truly NEEDS the other, as they did back in the day. This is why marriages end over stupid things, like "financial arguments," "he or she cheated on me," "I want more out of life," "We don't bond anymore," etc., etc. While all of these are legit issues within a relationship, NOBODY was getting divorced back in the day over these childish issues because there was more to LOSE. Your survival depended on the other person....today, marriage is nothing but a LTR with a more painful and expensive breakup period.

At the end of the day, marriage today is nothing but Entertainment and not genetic survival like it used to be. That's why nobody takes the shyt serious.
 

Colossus

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The argument against marriage for men is pretty straightforward. The most common reason given for men not to get married is that the financial outcome of divorce proceedings is seen to be unfair and often disastrous.

Usually, along with this, issues and concerns about custody of children are brought up as well, along with other concerns about losing the freedom to make life choices and so on. Generally, these issues vary so much on a case-by-case basis that they’re difficult to reasonably discuss.

I am no marriage champion by any means, and I'll be the first to admit our current culture introduces more risks than ever before for men who choose to get married. Most, if not all, of these risks present consequences only in the event of divorce, and they are complicated exponentially by children.

I think marriage itself gets an unnecessarily bad rap around here, and there really aren't a lot of facts to back it up, just anecdotes of men who had horrific experiences with marriage and divorce. Those stories should not be ignored, but the plural of anecdotes is not data, and I think we should stop looking at marriage as something that is intrinsically bad.


Social and emotional benefits:

-Married couples report greater sexual satisfaction.

-Married women report higher levels of physical and psychological health.

-Married people are more likely to volunteer.

-Being married increases the likelihood of affluence.

-Married people tend to experience less depression and fewer problems with alcohol.

-Getting married increases the probability of moving out of a poor neighborhood.

-Married men make more money.

-Married women are less likely to experience poverty.

-Marriage is associated with a lower mortality risk.

These are all demonstrated, validated benefits. See below.

(refs)

Financial benefits:

-Almost always, you’re both going to be bringing in an income.

-You both benefit from economies of scale, meaning your expenses won’t rise as much as your income will.

-You have greater earnings stability.

-You have greater earnings potential, too.

-You have the “stable home” factor.

Granted, the above can ostensibly be achieved by cohabiting, but there are numerous other federal, state, and healthcare/end-of-life related benefits you cannot get by simply cohabiting.



"But what about the risk and pain of divorce?"

You cannot eliminate all risk from a marriage, just like you cant eliminate all risk from a business deal, or lease, or buying a dog. You are dealing with another living being. What you can do is mitigate as much risk as possible:

-Select properly, even if it takes years, and don’t get married until you’re absolutely sure.
Shouldn't need to be said, but it does.

-if you have assets you want to protect, get a prenupital agreement.
Self-explanatory, but many state also will allow you to add a waiver of alimony to your prenup. This waives one or both parties from ever claiming alimony, unless at the time of divorce it would cause one person to be impoverished.

-look at your behavior and your partner’s behavior honestly
Are either of you engaging in activities or behaviors that could reasonably lead to divorce? Cheating, heavy drinking, harder drugs, risky professions, etc. Is there anything about her you find borderline tolerable now that could worsen with time?

-Kids:
This is really a separate discussion, and brings into light a whole new set of risks and considerations. IMO it is a distinct issue from marriage itself, and should be approached as such. I think the majority of the bad divorce stories we read here involve children.
 

zekko

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Colossus said:
The argument against marriage for men is pretty straightforward. The most common reason given for men not to get married is that the financial outcome of divorce proceedings is seen to be unfair and often disastrous.
I enjoyed marriage quite a bit until things went south. But you're right, the problem for men isn't so much marriage, it's divorce.

One of the main problems with marriage is that you could be the best husband and father on the planet, but if your wife decides she wants a divorce, then you reallly don't have any say in it. So if you marry a woman, you are really handing your future over to her, and she can do what she wants with it, without any input from you. And you can screen as carefully as you like, but a simple fact of life is that people change. And women initiate and file for divorce in the vast majority of cases.

I think divorce becomes a fantasy for many women. They think of the cash windfall they will get and what they can spend it on.

When I was in college, I was stunned by the number of women I met whose husbands were helping put them through school, and that they planned to divorce them as soon as they graduated and started earning good money for themselves.

Anyway, to answer the OP's question, I've been living with my girlfriend for 11years now. She, like most women, would love to be married. But she knows I'm divorced and that I won't go through that again. She doesn't like it but she understands it. If you are a man of value it will be worth it for her.
 
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