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Anyone pull off LTR without marriage??

tripod23

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had a 12 yr ltr without marriage......didn't even live together but saw her all the time......she wanted commitment......and I was commited but I didn't want to get married as I knew what the outcome could possibly do to me......so i always resisted......she wanted to buy a place together.....but again I resisted.....mainly because I felt is was a sure way of her gaining control..........maybe wrong to think this way but I know loads of guys whos exes have their balls in the palm of their hands......and are paying dearly for being trusting.......I guy I spoke to recently told me he went home after work one day only to be told by his good lady she wanted him out of the house..........and he invested over £30k into the place.......this was after being with her for 9 yrs..........he still hasn't got his money back......now she is shacked up with another sucker............most women nowadays want to get married so they don't feel left out from their girlfriends who are married.........its human nature I suppose........I wouldn't imagine I could pull off a 12 yr LTR again without some sort of ring on her finger............trust is the biggest thing.....and good communication ......
 

LiveFreeX

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Its too bad you guys aren't more marriage minded, I have in my possession (friendzone) an Asian, virgin girl, who is horny as hell for the right guy. I can see how you've all been burnt by American women but to assume they represent all women, its quite a shame.

My friend is an Architect, never married, never had a boyfriend and fairly well off. She's also in good shape, unfortunately she is 34 which is 9 years past the Chinese expiration date and has no hope of ever meeting a guy. In Guangzhou, the ratio is 9 to 1, women to men. 0 debt and will have a dowry of a few apartments and all the wealth in her parents bank account. Any guy who marries will automatically gain the right to stay in China (on a marriage visa), quite the valuable thing considering they are the next super power.

Unfortunately for the forum, in China, women are much more marriage minded and are looking at you as a potential mate from day 1. As opposed to the US, where you have to run a dog and pony show [game] just to keep her around for a second date.

PM for her contact if interested. She is looking for either Caucasian or Latino.
 

Scaramouche

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Dear All,
Yes marriage is a desirable shelter,a nest in which to raise Children...No other value...Last week on three consecutive Days I banged three different Women,one was only thirty nine...I have Svex six Days a Week...as I get Older it gets easier...I look at my friends and old colleagues who are married,I feel so sorry for them...most at my aqe have forgotten what Svex is about...When I go dancing with a lovely Woman I see some of them eye me enviously,they yearn to break out but can't!
 

zekko

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pumpkin-head said:
Most women want to get married and have kids, I don't see anything wrong with that when you choose the right woman.
Some families stay together, but there's no way going into it that you can know for sure that you have the right woman. When I got married, I was CERTAIN that I had the right girl. I had screened well, I had waited until my 30s to get married, there was no divorce in her family, we shared the same values (or so it seemed). I liked my odds of succeeding. Five years later she flipped out or something, and started acting bizarre.

Look at Augustus' case. Can you look 30 years into the future and know what that woman will be like, what she will want out of life then? It's impossible. Any way you look at it, marriage is a roll of the dice.
 

LiveFreeX

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In the meantime men, enjoy the freedom the women unwillingly gave you, until further laws place a stronger boot upon your neck to support women and their demands for fully optimized hypergamy.
This should read 'In the meantime men waste their time by staying with American women and playing with financial ruin by dating the wh0res of the apocalypse.' What is the male equivalent of a wh0re of the apocalypse? The morally bankrupt, backstabbing male. The decline corrupts and ruins your soul the more you stay with it. Becoming cynical, cautious and hateful of children and women, this is what the enemy of man wants and you are playing right into their hand. Eventually you will become a stone devoid of love and incapable of having or giving it.

Enjoying the decline means participating in it.

Do you not notice how the characters of men are fading away? Participating in this madness, however small, can only lead to more madness. Eventually all you will be left with is glutinous hateful and morally bankrupt blobs who believe their narcissism is right and true. There you have America.

.
 

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VikingKing

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Danger said:
One thing the women who "freed" themselves from the bondage of domestic duties never considered......that they would in turn free men from their duties as well.

Women wanted to be able to have all of the benefits of both sexes, but still have the expectation men would perform the same functions for them.

Many women are now finding out, they were wrong. When one side rejects their portion of the social contract, men too have the power to reject their portion, despite the plethora of "man up and marry" shaming attempts we see daily and even among people on this board.

If women want the benefits of marriage, then they need to push for the restoration of benefits to the men. The first step in this direction is to fix the family courts, but I doubt that will happen for as long as it creates money for the "family court complex".

In the meantime men, enjoy the freedom the women unwillingly gave you, until further laws place a stronger boot upon your neck to support women and their demands for fully optimized hypergamy.
Which is way "independent" "successful" women are the most miserable group of people in society. Especially when they waste all that time until their youth is gone, and realize they are not desired very much or by the type of men they want to attract. In turn they turn to misandry and the hate cult that is feminism.
 

Tenacity

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LiveFreeX,

Your continued recommendation to marry a foreign chick, again, is a bad solution. The issue with marriage to be honest, isn't really truly THE WOMAN...the issue is that the marriage and divorce laws are outdated.

I think it's human nature for some people to change, go bat shyt, or acquire mental disorders as they go through life because life is not some Disney Fairy Tale. Sometimes, fvcked up things happen to good people, and it will cause you to flip out.

A foreign chick can change in 5 years just as an American chick can. What I'm arguing is that the laws need to reflect the updated society where women are liberated to acquire their own income, assets and career ambitions. The laws reflect pre-women's liberation which makes absolutely NO SENSE. Again, there out to be outrage in the streets.

The new laws need to be as follows:

- You want to get married, go sign up downtown and get married. Included with the Marriage Agreement is an Asset Management breakdown where all assets are separated into pools. His pool, Her pool and Joint pool. There's no confusion, there's no lawyer needed, nothing needed called a pre-nup with its "pseudo" insurance, nothing.

- 5 years from now, you both or one of you believe that you want out of the marriage for ANY reason. If you can't work it out, you go back downtown, sign another piece of paper, and you both leave. The assets in his pool he takes, in her pool she takes, and in the joint account it's split 50/50. That's it, no long drawn out trials, nothing.

For children, this is how it should be whether you marry or not:

- 50/50 joint custody if the mother and father don't live together. That means the child is with the Father 50% of the time and with the Mother 50% of the time. That's 3 days with him, 3 days with her, and on Sunday one gets them for half of the day and the other for the other half.

- 50/50 joint expenses of the child are paid for between both parents. The expenses are limited ONLY to the needs of the child and basic entertainment. If you WANT to provide more you can, but it's not mandated. That should be about $15,000 a year per child in a low cost of living area, in a higher cost of living area like NYC that might be about $30,000. One parent pays 50% and the other pays 50%.

- If one of the parents are NOT paying their 50% share, then we go to Court. The Judge orders them to pay their 50% share or if they don't make enough to pay it, then provide them with assistance to help pay for it or reduce down the expenses of the child.

Why can't the system just be like this? That's all I want. That's fair and balanced. A child is not entitled to 25% - 35% of the gross income of a parent because that parent is the one with the master's, the work experience, the network, etc. It's hogwash and creates a HIGH sense of entitlement within the child rather than a strong character.

Keep in mind, MOST parents would give more to their child anyway in the form of either more entertainment or investment accounts (trust funds, college savings, etc) so this crap does NOT have to be regulated by the Government. All that ends up happening is that instead of the Father sending those excessive payments to the child's COLLEGE FUND....it's going to this Chick and she's spending it either on wigs, purses and casinos....or on some sorry, piece of shyt thug who lays on her couch paying Xbox1 all day. The child grows up with NO damn trust fund and NO damn college fund. It's hogwash!
 

Colossus

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Funny how one of the biggest names in Game writing has been married 18 years.....yeah I know, n=1, but food for thought.

From his blog:

16) How is married life going for you so far?

18 years on July 20th. I’ve only ever written a couple of direct posts about my marriage, but that’s mostly due to my not wanting men to view it as some model to aspire to. I understand my circumstance aren’t what most guy’s are, personally, family or career-wise, but I don’t for a minute believe I married the elusive unicorn of a woman.

I love Mrs. Tomassi more than anything in this world, we’re a very good match, and red pill awareness has only accented that good match. And for the record, yes, Mrs. Tomassi occasionally reads what I write here and has read my book.
 

Tenacity

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Lol, you guys are making these emotional responses. Please with logic and reason debunk some of the points I'm making on how screwed the system is, as well as the lack of forecasting capabilities that a man has today to predict if a woman will "change" after the marriage contract is executed?
 

Kailex

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The problem with the Rollo's in this world (Not that HE is a problem), is the fact that marriages like his are becoming more of the exception than the norm. And don't we state here that the exception is what proves that the rule exists in the first place?

I've dated women who point blank told me that once they married, they'd cut their hair short.

That they'd stop caring about their weight.

That they'd stop having as much sex.

Etc, etc, etc...

So all of a sudden, I have women blatantly telling me that they are going to decrease their market value and accelerate their depreciation if I sign a legal binding contract? What's in it for me then? I've already got a LOT to lose. I want to lose more?

This is appalling and it just shows that women are beginning to become aware of two things:

(1) They know they have ALL of the advantages in marriage
(2) They know if I won't stand for their "terms and conditions", they'll just log back into Tinder or POF or Match and find some desperate jackass who will.

I love to think that for every one of "me" out there, there's a dent being placed into this whole "marriage" movement, but the reality is that there are 20 more men willing to jump at the chance to bed these women and gamble on their financial, emotional, and sexual lives.

Why play the odds when I can just walk away from the table?
 

Colossus

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Danger said:
Colossus,




Three points.

  1. The above is the key phrase in all of that which you quote. Let us not forget the "observer effect". How many men here would post something potentially damaging to their relationship if they knew their wife were reading the material?
  2. Also let us remember, married for 18 years. So the marriage occurred before peak divorce-rape was in motion.
  3. Lastly, let us finish with a very recent post by Mr. Tomassi himself.
So what if you buy a cow that has never been milked? Negates that argument. Also divorce rape was alive and well 18 years ago, but I'll grant you not as severe.

Tenacity the "forecasting" point is ridiculous. You may as well cry there's no crystal ball to predict the future. Marriage has inherent risks, always has and always will. I GET that the kicker is divorce-rape culture in the courts, but has a well-crafted pre-nup been addressed? No, just "they don't always work". Helpful.

Like I said I'm no champion for marriage, and we all have differing views here. But the no-marriage crew here is so categorically against a legal union that you guys wont even entertain the possibility of a positive outcome. TLDR for no-marriage crew: "It all could go to sh!t one day. Just trust us."

And beyond our own opinions, I haven't really seen much in the way of legitimate evidence to back up these claims that men have no benefit to gain from a marriage. Where are the studies demonstrating social and emotional benefits of not marrying?? I gave DATA to support my argument; all I got back was opinions. And don't take the easy way out by just saying the "data is bunk or biased", show me your own data to refute it.
 

Desdinova

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a functioning, cooperative, child-rearing environment being the only evident ‘advantage’ marriage offers men
This isn't even necessarily true...

http://www.npr.org/2012/06/19/154860588/single-dads-by-choice-more-men-going-it-alone

If I didn't already have a child, this would be my option. Why the fvck should I risk my kid's mom fvcking up his masculinity (or her femininity) and have a chunk of my paycheck removed when I could be the ONLY parent who ensures that the child gets the values he or she needs to become a successful adult?

As a side note, I have a side job transferring videos to DVD. I just received a wedding video sprawled across three tapes. I sat and watched the ceremony and thought to myself that the whole thing seems so ancient. I mean, the vows, the wedding dress, the speech, and signing the legal documents with the feather pen. When I think about it all, it seems completely out-of-place with the rest of society and feminism. The only thing I can understand is the celebration afterwards.

As a second side note, the marriage is failing. They've tried counselling which hasn't worked. I think the entire purpose of transferring the video to DVD, aside from the fact they don't own a VCR, is to watch it again hoping that it will help rekindle the flame.

Fine by me, I'm getting paid to help ignite a dead candle.
 

Kailex

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Danger said:
The possibility for a positive outcome absolutely exists. The anti-marriage crew does not dispute that.
Bingo.

My sentiment exactly. I know there is a possibility of a positive outcome. The odds are just forever NOT in my favor.

I would love to say that I am going to get married to a wonderful woman who will be there with me, by my side for 30+ years and we'll die together. The chances of that happening are slim.

Just as I would love to say that I am going to work for the same company for 30 years, retire, and have my safety net pension and live out my golden years in a warm and sunny place. That chances of that happening are slim too.

If it WERE to happen with a woman, the bar would be set so high, that I'd absolutely make sure she qualified to be marriage material. That would take quite the time to establish and in a generation of "Now, now, now" due to increased availability of options and reduced attention spans, that almost seems highly unlikely to happen. If it does, it'll be a welcome addition to my life, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for it to happen.

I think you'd find that the non-marriage crew could very well be split into two: Those who would never get married because they simply don't believe marriage is worth it, and those who would never get married because they simply don't believe that the risk is worth it.

The line is pretty slim, but it is two completely different groups.
 

Tenacity

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Colossus,

I posted stats and data earlier on in this thread, not sure what you meant by the statement of you not having received any opposing data?

You just desperately want to defend the institution of marriage, which is fine, defend away.....what you CAN'T defend is the fact that the system is flawed. Matter of fact, you recognize that it's flawed for the simple reason that you want to amend the standard marriage contract with a pre-nup.

You recognize that it's flawed because you have noted that you are AWARE of the risks. Well, let me ask you Colossus, where do you think those "risks" come from? It's NOT the woman....it's the system. It's NOT that the woman wants to screw you over, it's the fact that the LAW allows her to. A thief wants to take assets from me as well, but the LAW doesn't allow them the ability to do it.

Guys like me are trying to REFORM the system Colossus, as long as guys like you keep OPTING in to this system, then it will never get reformed. All we want (guys like me) is a fair and balanced SYSTEM. That's it. It's quite irrelevant that "not all marriages ends this way," the fact is that I broke down earlier that TOO MANY end this way and the system once they end is horrible. We want damn reform.....
 

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LiveFreeX

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Tenacity: You will fix nothing, you are part of the problem. The system is corrupted and collapsing and the only way to fix it is to get out and reboot. There is no miraculous 'eureka' moment coming, there is no way to patch the leak, there isn't anyone running in to save us. It will continue on its current course until there is absolutely nothing stable left, the nation's demise is at hand.

Reform isn't coming. Find those who hate the west and marry their women, go mercenary. The West is broken, the support is falling out from under us and no amount of MGTOWs are going to fix it, not with all the crying, whining and abstaining. Some nation will be taking over as super power when we are gone, why pledge your remaining time and allegiance to a pleasurable disease that is going to wipe out everything you ever loved and worked for, why when the vaccine is just a stone's throw away?

What man can march in defense of the West when our own women march against us? This isn't a fight you can win, the enemy is a part of you.
 

Tenacity

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Live Free I'm totally lost on what you are talking about.
 

Desdinova

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Marriage isn't defined by the love between two people. It is defined by the divorce system. Back when marriages were successful, couples were forced to abide by the vows. Now that we have no-fault divorces, wedding vows are a fart in the wind. Nobody gets punished for fvcking up their vows. Marriage has been deemed useless by the divorce system.
 

Tenacity

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Social Leper,

Again, I must repeat, there is NO such thing as an iron clad Pre-Nup. It's not insurance against the marriage ending people. Don't take my word on it, go speak with a couple Family Law Attorneys.

It's just an additional amendment to the marriage contract that states how assets "should be divided" at the end of the marriage...but it's up to the JUDGE at the time of the end of the marriage to determine if it will stand up or not. The Pre-Nup could very well be thrown in the garbage by a skilled Attorney arguing that it's too loopsided, unfair to the spouse AT THE TIME of the end of the marriage, etc.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jefflanders/2013/04/02/five-reasons-your-prenup-might-be-invalid/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stann-givens/when-a-prenup-gets-thrown_b_5542093.html
 
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