Hello Friend,

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Anyone here from Russia?

xplt

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True, the sanctions will hurt the Russian people, many of whom are not in favor of this incursion. Hopefully most people can distinguish between the gov't/war profiteers and regular people.
Most yes, but sadly many others can‘t.
A friend of mine here in germany is russian, his kids are getting already bullied in school.

The hype and hysteria the western media is producing again, while ignoring important facts and spreading misinformation is just disgusting.
 

EyeBRollin

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True, the sanctions will hurt the Russian people, many of whom are not in favor of this incursion. Hopefully most people can distinguish between the gov't/war profiteers and regular people.
The Russians are the new Jews.
No they are not the “new Jews.” The Russian people are rightfully being held accountable for the actions of their government. It is their responsibility to preserve the image of their country in the eyes of the world. The fact is Russia invaded Ukraine, instantly turning millions of Ukrainians into refugees. There is no “both sides at fault” or “both sides deserve sympathy” here. Russian people have to do something to get rid of Putin- as difficult as that may be.
 

samspade

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The Russian people are rightfully being held accountable for the actions of their government. It is their responsibility to preserve the image of their country in the eyes of the world. The fact is Russia invaded Ukraine, instantly turning millions of Ukrainians into refugees. There is no “both sides at fault” or “both sides deserve sympathy” here. Russian people have to do something to get rid of Putin- as difficult as that may be.
The Russian people didn't do this, mate. Even if their elections weren't a sham, governments are going to make awful decisions that don't reflect the will of the people. See: All of history. You are conflating idiot leaders with regular people.

Agree, they're not the "new Jews." But little kids should not be bullied over this. A lot worse xenophobia can happen in wartime. We're not far removed from internment camps in the US.

As for getting rid of Putin, well, anyone can be assassinated. Most people won't take the risk to their liberty or their family. But I'm sure there are some people out there who will try.
 

Bandolero

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No they are not the “new Jews.” The Russian people are rightfully being held accountable for the actions of their government. It is their responsibility to preserve the image of their country in the eyes of the world. The fact is Russia invaded Ukraine, instantly turning millions of Ukrainians into refugees. There is no “both sides at fault” or “both sides deserve sympathy” here. Russian people have to do something to get rid of Putin- as difficult as that may be.
You sound like someone
I am skeptical of this. Much of this is human behavioral patterns and psychology. Dictatorships, fascism, etc. is studied ad nauseum in schools yet they continue to pop up all over the world like whack a mole. Bottom line is in times of crisis humans gravitate towards certain kind of leadership. Much like how logical arguments fail when challenging a person’s opinion.
 

Bokanovsky

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No they are not the “new Jews.” The Russian people are rightfully being held accountable for the actions of their government. It is their responsibility to preserve the image of their country in the eyes of the world. The fact is Russia invaded Ukraine, instantly turning millions of Ukrainians into refugees. There is no “both sides at fault” or “both sides deserve sympathy” here. Russian people have to do something to get rid of Putin- as difficult as that may be.
Meh, empty talk. What were you doing to get rid of Bush when he invaded Iraq? Or Obama when your country was supplying weapons to jihadists in Syria? What are you doing right now to get rid of Biden, who is supplying weapons to the Saudis, who, in turn, use them to commit war crimes in Yemen?
 

EyeBRollin

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The Russian people didn't do this, mate. Even if their elections weren't a sham, governments are going to make awful decisions that don't reflect the will of the people. See: All of history. You are conflating idiot leaders with regular people.

Agree, they're not the "new Jews." But little kids should not be bullied over this. A lot worse xenophobia can happen in wartime. We're not far removed from internment camps in the US.

As for getting rid of Putin, well, anyone can be assassinated. Most people won't take the risk to their liberty or their family. But I'm sure there are some people out there who will try.
What you are doing here is disassociating a people from their own government, which is a tenuous argument at best. Government is not some nebulous entity; it is made up of the people and represents the people. Yes, even the repressive ones. It is on the people of that country to hold their government accountable. In the worst cases that means revolutions and coups. The Russian people are not absolved from their military invasion of Ukraine.
 

samspade

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What you are doing here is disassociating a people from their own government, which is not credible argument. Government is not some nebulous entity; it is made up of the people and represents the people. Yes, even the repressive ones. It is on the people of that country to hold their government accountable. The Russian people are not absolved from their military invasion of Ukraine.
If they're against it, I absolve them. Pretty easy!
 

EyeBRollin

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Meh, empty talk. What were you doing to get rid of Bush when he invaded Iraq? Or Obama when your country was supplying weapons to jihadists in Syria? What are you doing right now to get rid of Biden, who is supplying weapons to the Saudis, who, in turn, use them to commit war crimes in Yemen?
Another weak both sidesism. But I’ll entertain it. If the rest of the world imposed severe economic sanctions against American people and companies- it falls squarely on the American civilians to hold the US government accountable for those decisions.
 

samspade

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Another weak both sidesism. But I’ll entertain it. If the rest of the world imposed severe economic sanctions against American people and companies- it falls squarely on the American civilians to hold the US government accountable for those decisions.
So it's just about money? No sanctions = no problem?
 

Bokanovsky

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Another weak both sidesism. But I’ll entertain it. If the rest of the world imposed severe economic sanctions against American people and companies- it falls squarely on the American civilians to hold the US government accountable for those decisions.
That's a hilarious attempt at equivocation. You are saying that because the rest of the world won't stand up to America (either due to weakness or for their own selfish reasons), you have no moral culpability in what your government is doing...But if sanctions were imposed, it would be up to you to overthrow your government. Sorry bud, but it doesn't work that way. War crimes are war crimes, regardless of whether they trigger sanctions. And you are complicit in your government's war crimes, according to your own theory.
 
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samspade

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Not good enough. Being principally “against” human rights violations, invasions, genocide, or any other heinous undertaking is insufficient. They must stop it from happening / continuing.
Well I don't think any of my Russian friends are going to pull a Franz Ferdinand. We're still friends though. I don't typically judge people based on their president/PM/king etc. Otherwise I'd have NO friends.
 

EyeBRollin

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That's a hilarious attempt at equivocation. You are saying that because the rest if of the world won't stand up to America (either due to weakness or for their own selfish reasons), you have no moral culpability in what your government is doing
That is not what I said at all. I do not support any of those decisions by the US government.

...But if sanctions were imposed, it would be up to you to overthrow your government. Sorry bud, but it doesn't work that way. War crimes are war crimes, regardless of whether they trigger sanctions. And you are complicit in your government's war crimes, according to your own theory.
I believe all American citizens are complicit in the actions undertaken by the US government. That’s why I laugh at the weak both sidesism.
 

EyeBRollin

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Well I don't think any of my Russian friends are going to pull a Franz Ferdinand. We're still friends though. I don't typically judge people based on their president/PM/king etc. Otherwise I'd have NO friends.
That is fine. Just saying it doesn’t absolve the Russian people for the atrocities committed against Ukrainians.
 

Bandolero

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Well I don't think any of my Russian friends are going to pull a Franz Ferdinand. We're still friends though. I don't typically judge people based on their president/PM/king etc. Otherwise I'd have NO friends.
Do you have a representative president in mind ?
 

Kotaix

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Not good enough. Being principally “against” human rights violations, invasions, genocide, or any other heinous undertaking is insufficient. They must stop it from happening / continuing.
Then put your money where your mouth is, go to ukraine and sign up to fight with them like so many others are. (assuming that's even happening).

Lots of muslims did this when ISIS was up and running and they found a rude awakening.
 

samspade

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That is not what I said at all. I do not support any of those decisions by the US government.



I believe all American citizens are complicit in the actions undertaken by the US government. That’s why I laugh at the weak both sidesism.
What we were both driving at was you said "If the rest of the world imposed severe economic sanctions against American people and companies- it falls squarely on the American civilians to hold the US government accountable for those decisions."

But you seem to have clarified yourself in a subsequent message.
 

samspade

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So the American citizens bear no responsibility if President Biden decides to invade and occupy Canada?
Depends. For instance, when presidents like Kennedy/Johnson and Nixon said they wouldn't escalate, or would de-escalate in Vietnam, and people believed them and voted for them, then it's not the people's fault that those guys lied through their teeth.

If it's a conflict that could not have been known (Canada), there's an election in two years, opportunity to protest, Congress can impeach him, and anyone willing to take the risk can try to take him out.

I don't know whether Putin "ran" on a invasion platform, but I don't think he's been legitimately opposed in any election. Tyrants can't be controlled by the populace and can be difficult to sack. Most people are trying to feed their families, which just became much harder thanks to Putin. I'm not going to begrudge anyone who doesn't want his family in a gulag or worse.

Perhaps some general will do the task, especially seeing how Russian troops are crying for mom and blowing up their own tanks in their "training exercise."
 
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