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28 YO Man Getting Player by 23 yo Female?

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General,

Totally right that actions hold the meaning, words are weak in comparison.

So now how many hours of no contact has it been? The last discussion was Wednesday morning with her saying good morning and you replying once?
Yes still nothing. Not since her wishing me "good morning " on tuesday and me responding in kind.

I am learning first hand that words are weak. She had just told me to "keep my weekend free" she was going to "surprise" me. That being this weekend.
 
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When did she tell you she was going to surprise you?
This was Sunday and Sonday. I hinted at us getting hotel and she said that sounded good so long as it didnt get in the way of her surprise. I said that comes first and we can talk about it when she fills me in. She said she would reveal what it was during the week.
 
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Ok, so not Tuesday. That's good. Sunday is ancient history.
Yeah the last we talked about it was monday. Then a good morning and nothing. It boggles my mind but I guess I need to accept this is over and it is time to move on.

I have redownloaded bumble and will organize a night out soon. Right now I feel hurt and have little interest in other women. That will pass and I will move forward with the lessons I have learned.
 

LARaiders85

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Would i be right in saying it is actions not words that must be observed for one to know anything ?
Yes and no. It's true but it's not my point.

Normally men project the cartoon Disney or romcom type of motivations for women, or they project their own situation and reasoning onto women. This is rarely if ever actually correct and it isn't real empathy because you don't actually understand women if you do this. But as far as actions vs words, their words will try to reinforce those two false methods of projection.

You can read all day about how women "really" think, and there is some truth to that stuff, but two better ways:

1. Female friends when you have the frame of a guy "in the know" who is nonjudgmental and morally ambiguous. They will give you a little peak into their world if you know what questions to ask. Otherwise they will paper you over with the usual fluff.

2. Dating a lot of women at once + being sort of hung up on an ex/rebound mode. Basically every hot woman is doing this, so once you do it it will become so much clearer how they think. That's the environment where clinginess and neediness become so unattractive, and where you could just ghost for a reason totally unrelated to what the girl is doing.

3. A few general principles to frame your experiences, just know that women aren't attracted to weakness and you must not ever project your male protector instinct onto women. Women hate feeling like "Mom." Being nonprotective + very aware of the biological clock makes them value seekers and takers much more than men are, and they feel entitled to do that for those reasons. No time for etiquette. Ironically, the maternal instinct does seem to come out more in the platonic environment. I enjoy working with women and had great academic mentors.

Also, I would not put too much stake in learning from your experiences with cluster B women, they are extreme to say the least. Just learn to identify and avoid. A lot of the stuff you will read here and elsewhere is just calibrating to the extreme negativity of such women.
 
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Hold up, don't get spotted on dating apps, then she will hold the high ground. Patience, you can join when this is done.

Also, did you two ever have the exclusivity talk or were you both only just dating?
Roger that I'll hold off.
She wanted to be exclusive on our third date. I agreed. She regularly said she saw us as going somewhere serious. She saw me in a picture with a friends girlfriend and said it made her a little jealous. She also said I was "her guy".

I'm starting to get the vibe I was just "another nice guy".

The only pattern I can see is that I had backed off ever so slightly as in not replying immediately to her texts etc. Maybe I am best forgetting about the why as you said. I was being needy.

I was so tempted to just message her and say we should date other people because the wait here is killing me. I'll stay strong and follow your advice, bide my time and stick to the script or just let her be a lesson.
 

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Yes you REALLY need to learn patience. A guy woth a lot going on and who is focused on hinself isn't going to be on dating apps because his girl hasn't talked to him in two days. That's just a different way of showing neediness.

Right now you are in "fake it til you make it" mode. This means she needs to see you as calm, cool, and not needy. They ALL need to see you this way.

There was a great saying here long ago, I think by PRL and it was "first you fvck her mind, then you fvck her body". You can't fvk her mind if she thinks she knows you and can piece together what you are doing.

WHY is the wait killing you? Why can't you just relax and be occupied with other things? This is the root of a lot of your issues.
Danger I honestly appreciate this so much. Im pretty clueless but I have one thing going for me, I can admit when I am wrong. I want to improve.

So I will continue life as normal, training, study and work. Ill share on my social media as I normally would, no games. If she comes back, maybe we are in my frame. If she does not, you guys will play a huge part in helping me get laid again. Either way I will continue to visit this forum and swallow enough red pill so that I amn't walked on like a doormat anymore.

Yes I certainly have issues. The wait is killing me because I built a story in my head of where we were going to go and what we were going to do. I built expectations. And am now feeling the disappointment of them not being being realized. Im now very aware that I am needy, insecure and that is unattractive. I will work on shedding those qualities and I hope guys like you can help point me in the right direction.
 
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Sorry if that last post seemed attacking. You are doing well so far. Yeah that "built a story in my head" thing needs to get $hitcanned immediately.

Right now she is either getting anxious for you to contact her or wondering what's going on. Or maybe she already decided she is ending it.

The moment you reach out, it confirms in her head that you are a beta.

Let her wonder. And be ready and prepared with the two scripts I gave you, depending on how she acts.
Nah I understand you are just trying to drill that crucial point into me. Patience is the game here. I am being tested, or else she is already gone. In both cases a reply would either make the decision for her or else I am degrading myself by messaging someone who just has no interest for reasons that dont really matter at the end of the day.
 

LARaiders85

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WHY is the wait killing you? Why can't you just relax and be occupied with other things? This is the root of a lot of your issues.
I agree with this to a point and especially in a one month situation. I think there are situations that where you just have to recognize that regardless of the ideal, you just have to honor your emotional state and get rid of the girl that is causing the push pull situation.
 

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Hold up, don't get spotted on dating apps, then she will hold the high ground. Patience, you can join when this is done.

Also, did you two ever have the exclusivity talk or were you both only just dating?

I agree, hold off on the app for now
 
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I agree, hold off on the app for now
Yes I still have a sense of remaining true to my word and maintaining the high ground. I foresee her playing further games with me over the weekend. I will keep to my routine and will not reach out. The urge to do so is strong but I can tell from the wisdom shared that it would only serve to damage things further. Either shes gone or this is a test.

How did I let myself get oneitis so bad? This will be a catalyst for change.
 
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True in regards to having to eject when the girl is the root of the issue.

In this case I don't know that we know enough about her to judge. We DO know that OP has made enough mistakes to possibly kill attraction and that is what is causing this.

We can't fix the girl, but we can get OP on the right track. From there we can then tell if the girl is irreversably broken. Or even just the relationship at this point.
Thanks Danger.

I would really appreciate your continued help. I am taking on board what you have to say.
 

Mauser96

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Yes I still have a sense of remaining true to my word and maintaining the high ground. I foresee her playing further games with me over the weekend. I will keep to my routine and will not reach out. The urge to do so is strong but I can tell from the wisdom shared that it would only serve to damage things further. Either shes gone or this is a test.

How did I let myself get oneitis so bad? This will be a catalyst for change.
Did you ever think back as to how PEACEFUL your life was before you met her?

Think of how peaceful it will be again when you get fed up enough to get rid of her.
 
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So we are now on no-contact since Tuesday morning, right?

If she reaches out, DO NOT ASK about any plans or the weekend. Even if she previously on Sunday said "this weekend we will blah blah blah...".

If she reaches out to you and you bring up or force the issue of her plans with you over the weekend then it blows your cover.

If she is still interested, Test 1 is to see if you will text, call or chase her.

Test 2 will be to see if you were playing games on test 1 or if you really ARE not going to chase her and try to chase her like a puppy.

If she mentioned plans for the weekend, it is up to HER to bring it up and push for them to happen.
Yes correct, no contact since then.

She has been viewing all of my instgram stories (just the usual stuff I post relating to studying, eating, training, music) however.

I've been reading a lot of Pooks stuff and I royally screwed up with my emotional eagerness here. Best case scenario is passing this shyt test and her admonishing my lack of reply or chasing. Or maybe its done and I will never hear from her. Im preparing for that eventuality too.
 
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Did you ever think back as to how PEACEFUL your life was before you met her?

Think of how peaceful it will be again when you get fed up enough to get rid of her.
Right now I am in the hurt phase. Which I will ensure against going forward by seeing myself as the prize and not going exclusive. Honestly I am hurt way more than I should be. there are definitely some issues I need to address.
 
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Im honestly just struggling with the fact that while Im not chasing one of her orbiters is getting a shot or she is gonna **** someone else. I have the wrong attitude and I just shouldnt care, I know that intellectually but not emotionally.
 

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You have to realize that by being patient and not needy that she will be drawn to you, and the orbiter is shooting himself in the foot.
I will trust your judgement.

There is nothing i would love more than to attempt to fix this by messaging her.

But this, now, is how i should have played it from the start.
 
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The problem right now is that she was pushed away so much that you texting her again would seem desperate, versus now the long silence being awkward.

Her texting by now would have made it more salvageable but she has yet to do that.

Before it gets too awkward, and if she has been viewing your instagrams or given some indication to you that she is thinking of you, then it may be appropriate to just text her a meme or something funny (But don't write her a message).

This can relieve the awkward tension but doesn't appear needy.

If she reads it and doesn't reply, then don't communicate again at all.
We have a joke i could send her.

There was a night when she was feeling off and sent me an owl emoji in response to a nessage, Then didnt text me.

She apologised the next day and told me to call her out. Id send the owl sometimes to be funny so thats a candidate.

Ill wait till tomorrow? Let her wonder what im up to as she knows my weekday routine but not the weekend.
 
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I would say send it today BECAUSE she knows your routine today.

If you waited until tomorrow you would reduce her wonder about you on Saturday and it would be one more day of awkwardness.
Ok ill do it. Thank you for your advice so far.
 

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Danger is doing a great job here.

However i would not contact her in anyway until she initiate and even then i might ignore her.


Radio silence as happened to me a few time when i was younger, usually happens after some conflict. I was not that much into the women i was seeing in those time so for me it was like w/e idc if i ever talk to her again.
Its like they where playing a game with me to see if i would give in first, i never did.
Happened a few time and then the time lapse got longer and longer got up to 2 weeks of nc, the women always gave up and called me.
I remember one telling me a few time that it was the last time she is going to contact me first after something like this happened, but she still did the next time it happened.

Obv this was at a time txting was not a thing, however my point is women crave that attention and the less you give it the more they want it and i actually a way to show higher value to them.
Not sure all this can be applied to your situation but something to think about.
 
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Update.
You're welcome.

Good luck and let us know. Don't have long text message convos either, but also don't jump on every text like a hungry dog. You can let a couple sit unread for a little while.
She rang me immediately and was quite upset. I stuck to the script and she began to get very upset. I told her I was giving her space and was confused as to why she never replied. I also told her my reasoning, that we had recently escalated emotionally and that I felt this was why she had not reached out.

She claimed she was very upset and thought that I was the one playing games and that by simply saying good morning I had shut down the conversation.

She went out for drinks for a friend's birthday. I texted her to say have a good night and that it looked like we were in the same position.

She said thank you for the message she will talk to me later. I didn't hear from her yet.
 
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