Frame vs being stubborn

[Pumax]

How would you guys compare the term "holding the frame" vs just "being stubborn" or "being obstinate"?

 

[Plinco]

How would you guys compare the term "holding the frame" vs just "being stubborn" or "being obstinate"?

Having a functional sense of reality along having emotional fortitude versus being emotionally clingy to set beliefs.

The key is rationality. In other words, observations and experience is the starting point, followed by conceptualization guided by logic and then formulated into principles. <-- the main components of rational thought and the mechanism of the improvement of one's relationship with reality.

 

[Pumax]

Its like people will say, "hold the frame", but most of the time that translate to take decision no matter the outcome.

So if she says "we need to go travel" and you say "no, there will be no travel this week I do have soccer match" and you hold that even if she get upset and then after she become sweet again and you have make up sex.

Is that holding the frame?
Or just being stubborn?

 

[Arete]

Its like people will say, "hold the frame", but most of the time that translate to take decision no matter the outcome.

So if she says "we need to go travel" and you say "no, there will be no travel this week I do have soccer match" and you hold that even if she get upset and then after she become sweet again and you have make up sex.

Is that holding the frame?
Or just being stubborn?

Do you know Pook? Here is a quote from him.

"A Man, Focuses on his dreams.
No, this does not include the chick. You must have passion for something in life, something you even want to do for the rest of your
life. Your romantic life is an echo of your regular life."

The world seems to be like a mirror as far as I can tell from my experience. It makes sense to me.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

I would liken it to "learning to think and relate like a normal person" vs "being self-indulgently autistic"

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Having a functional sense of reality along having emotional fortitude versus being emotionally clingy to set beliefs.

The key is rationality. In other words, observations and experience is the starting point, followed by conceptualization guided by logic and then formulated into principles. <-- the main components of rational thought and the mechanism of the improvement of one's relationship with reality.

No, the key is discernment. Reading people and knowing when to soften your stance when needed.

 

[Plinco]

No, the key is discernment. Reading people and knowing when to soften your stance when needed.

I'm trying to figure out why you would say that. Frame is having a strong sense of context. A really simplified example would be to have complete confidence that 2+2=4, and having the emotional fortitude to express that confidently despite any pressure or pleasure that might divert you away from that conclusion.

Discernment is based on pattern recognition. So if you want to get to the essence on what 'frame' is, in the proper sense, is the emotional fortitude to hold the context of the integration of reality.

 

[Cheeky_James]

Holding the frame or controlling the frame basically means being Dominant. having a strong will and bending others to your will.

She may say “you’re so stubborn” or whatever.

just pick your battles , if it’s important to you and a core value= hold the frame.
If you go soccer every week and the travel is important to the relationship and you haven’t spent good time together lately then there’s no need I would think. Depends how important the soccer match is to you.

 

[Pumax]

You must have passion for something in life"

It makes sense.

There is a certain, contagious feeling, that you draw to others when you have something that influence you in that way.

It can be being passionate about your soccer club, or about cars, etc.

This is where most bluepilled man are if you think about it.
They are completely into this thing and their life is a reclection of their "childness" about this passion they have.

Its a contagious energy of joy to others.

How does that link with finding difference btw being stubborn or holding frame?

 

[Divorced w 3]

Holding frame can be practiced naturally and keep things moving forward on a positive, amicable basis. Being stubborn is when you demand adherence to a bunch of unreasonable expectations that are ultimately going to get thrown back in your face in an order of magnitude.