article: Many young men are shunning sex. Is it because feminism and #MeToo are constant reminders of the inferiority of male identity?

[Epicenter]

I realized it was a perspective. I don't agree with it.

That is ok

 

[mrgoodstuff]

You are free to have any perspective you want. One can not prove "believes"

Remember, I told you I believe that lack of intimacy between man and woman and sexlessness or lack of it is a bad example for children.
Children learn from what they observe.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

That is ok

It is. Your not alone. There are other men and women with your viewpoint. They think couples kissing and sharing a lot of effection are gross, or offend them. People that have sex are animals or lack control. A lot of relationship issues were from fundamental viewpoints being different.

 

[Lynx nkaf]

It is. Your not alone. There are other men and women with your viewpoint. They think couples kissing and sharing a lot of effection are gross, or offend them. People that have sex are animals or lack control. A lot of relationship issues were from fundamental viewpoints being different.

that is fundamental

You are correct to have these views mrgoodstuff.

Your natural T levels start at a higher baseline than others, you're not psychopathic.

Those with low drives are at risk of psychopathy, really.(referring to myself, not you epicenter)

Luckily, I've learned how to raise my own drive by absorbing Sosuave posts regularly since mid Feb.
It was guys here who helped with supplementation advice(boron/L-arginine) and with helping me recalibrate(admit) my natural needs.

 

[Epicenter]

Remember, I told you I believe that lack of intimacy between man and woman and sexlessness or lack of it is a bad example for children.
Children learn from what they observe.

Yes I understand that perspective. It's the classic neo conservative one. So not difficult to understand.

 

[Epicenter]

that is fundamental

You are correct to have these views mrgoodstuff.

Your natural T levels start at a higher baseline than others, you're not psychopathic.

Those with low drives are at risk of psychopathy, really.(referring to myself, not you epicenter)

I am interested in research of T levels. Here I throw one out:


Brain research has demonstrated that psychopaths exhibit reduced control over their emotional actions. Researchers from the Donders Institute at Radboud University Nijmegen discovered that the quantity of testosterone a person produces influences the parts of the brain responsible for regulating emotions.Jan 21, 2016

Testosterone influences regulation of emotions in ...

 

[SW15]

Man 20% has always struck me as such an optimistic percentage. You mean to tell me that 1 in 5 men I see walking around outside is basically pimping it out there? Though according to the chart below, I guess if you include men who are "medium" then you do get up to 19%. But only 7% of them are actually attractive in the absolute sense.

View attachment 4315

Yes, let's definitely talk about this. It actually doesn't matter whether the top 20%, top 10%, or top 7% are doing well. Whatever number it is, the story is that the vast majority of men do not have easy access to partnered orgasm. The easy access is to sexual release. Additionally, the men outside the top tier % want what the men at the top have. They aren't all that psyched to settle. Many do settle because they think it's better than being partnerless and sexless and they feel they have no other options in life but to simp for an overweight single mom. More men are starting to wise up that marriage is a bad deal. Maybe all they should do is casually bang, even if it is lower quality women, or have relationships but not put a ring on it.

I think the MGTOW movement gets a bad name because of the incel contingent of the MGTOW movement. There's a common perception that seems to exist that the MGTOW movement is comprised of guys who can't get laid. I personally do not identify with MGTOW. However, I have some overlapping viewpoints with the movement. I am going my own way, and opting out of the marriage path in life. I'm all about getting vag though.

 

[Epicenter]

Yes, let's definitely talk about this. It actually doesn't matter whether the top 20%, top 10%, or top 7% are doing well. Whatever number it is, the story is that the vast majority of men do not have easy access to partnered orgasm. The easy access is to sexual release. Additionally, the men outside the top tier % want what the men at the top have. They aren't all that psyched to settle. Many do settle because they think it's better than being partnerless and sexless and they feel they have no other options in life but to simp for an overweight single mom. More men are starting to wise up that marriage is a bad deal. Maybe all they should do is casually bang, even if it is lower quality women, or have relationships but not put a ring on it.

I think the MGTOW movement gets a bad name because of the incel contingent of the MGTOW movement. There's a common perception that seems to exist that the MGTOW movement is comprised of guys who can't get laid. I personally do not identify with MGTOW. However, I have some overlapping viewpoints with the movement. I am going my own way, and opting out of the marriage path in life. I'm all about getting vag though.

That is the problem with movements the loudest and most emotional are the most influential.

That is why I think this website is a good compromise. People are more relaxed.

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

Many young men are shunning sex. Is it because feminism and #MeToo are constant reminders of the inferiority of male identity?

Celibacy is becoming the new normal, as surveys show that the number of sexually inactive young Americans is increasing, particularly among males aged between 18 and 24.

www.rt.com

Low T. Lads not approaching.

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

Yes, let's definitely talk about this. It actually doesn't matter whether the top 20%, top 10%, or top 7% are doing well. Whatever number it is, the story is that the vast majority of men do not have easy access to partnered orgasm. The easy access is to sexual release. Additionally, the men outside the top tier % want what the men at the top have. They aren't all that psyched to settle. Many do settle because they think it's better than being partnerless and sexless and they feel they have no other options in life but to simp for an overweight single mom. More men are starting to wise up that marriage is a bad deal. Maybe all they should do is casually bang, even if it is lower quality women, or have relationships but not put a ring on it.

I think the MGTOW movement gets a bad name because of the incel contingent of the MGTOW movement. There's a common perception that seems to exist that the MGTOW movement is comprised of guys who can't get laid. I personally do not identify with MGTOW. However, I have some overlapping viewpoints with the movement. I am going my own way, and opting out of the marriage path in life. I'm all about getting vag though.

Our grandfathers were of the greatest generation. They had NO GAME but pulled top form SMV 18-23 not busted post wall or single moms.

I don't advocate mgtow but the idea of marriage is insanity in the west.

 

[SW15]

Our grandfathers were of the greatest generation. They had NO GAME but pulled top form SMV 18-23 not busted post wall or single moms.

I don't advocate mgtow but the idea of marriage is insanity in the west.

Since you and I are both Millennials, we likely had grandfathers born in the 1920s or maybe early 1930s. My maternal grandfather was a great man. He fought in World War II and had an attractive feminine wife with a 0 notch count when they married. My grandma was proud of her pre-marriage 0 notch count. They married soon after he returned from World War II. It lasted 55+ years.

That doesn't happen today. I miss my grandparents. I thought about my grandfather a lot this weekend with it being Father's Day.

I'm the only grandchild of those previously mentioned grandparents to not get a divorce. That's because I assessed the sexual marketplace, the broader culture and my own personality. I realized it wasn't going to work. I didn't want to go through a divorce. My parents went through one and it was not good. I want to have sex. I think pair bonding is good. An extended relationship has value. I'm not going to get the state involved in it. I'm going to extract the value I can from the relationship and exit when it is no longer good. I'm not sticking around for a decline in sexual frequency.

Why would I want to have kids when I likely won't stay with the baby mama until the kids are 18? That's not just me. Probability dictates that any two people having kids in the West aren't likely to be together until all their kids reach 18. I don't want to put a child through what I went through.

 

[sangheilios]

Since you and I are both Millennials, we likely had grandfathers born in the 1920s or maybe early 1930s. My maternal grandfather was a great man. He fought in World War II and had an attractive feminine wife with a 0 notch count when they married. My grandma was proud of her pre-marriage 0 notch count. They married soon after he returned from World War II. It lasted 55+ years.

That doesn't happen today. I miss my grandparents. I thought about my grandfather a lot this weekend with it being Father's Day.

I'm the only grandchild of those previously mentioned grandparents to not get a divorce. That's because I assessed the sexual marketplace, the broader culture and my own personality. I realized it wasn't going to work. I didn't want to go through a divorce. My parents went through one and it was not good. I want to have sex. I think pair bonding is good. An extended relationship has value. I'm not going to get the state involved in it. I'm going to extract the value I can from the relationship and exit when it is no longer good. I'm not sticking around for a decline in sexual frequency.

Why would I want to have kids when I likely won't stay with the baby mama until the kids are 18? That's not just me. Probability dictates that any two people having kids in the West aren't likely to be together until all their kids reach 18. I don't want to put a child through what I went through.

This is a major issue that people aren't aware of.

I don't understand how the older generations would essentially marry as virgins and stay together for life but yet their children all seemed to end up in these dysfunctional marriages that ended in divorce. I'm 30, so we are around the same age, and where I grew up, metro Boston area, most of the other middle class or higher children had divorced parents. From my perspective, I feel like many of the people around my parent's age got married for the wrong reasons and/or married someone who clearly was not something they should get involved with. When I became a young adult one of the vibes I've picked up on with people in this age range is this bizarre and irrational deep fear they seem to have of being alone. It's almost like they'd rather put up with an abusive or absent partner who makes their life miserable instead of just being single. I say this from my experience and observations of people of my parent's generation, many of whom have adult children who aren't even in the household anymore.

The issue we seem to have today though is women having all of these illegitimate children who have no father at all in the picture, not just physically but financially as well. I don't really have to go into why this is a horrible situation to be in, both for the mother and the children.

 

[SW15]

This is a major issue that people aren't aware of.

I don't understand how the older generations would essentially marry as virgins and stay together for life but yet their children all seemed to end up in these dysfunctional marriages that ended in divorce. I'm 30, so we are around the same age, and where I grew up, metro Boston area, most of the other middle class or higher children had divorced parents. From my perspective, I feel like many of the people around my parent's age got married for the wrong reasons and/or married someone who clearly was not something they should get involved with. When I became a young adult one of the vibes I've picked up on with people in this age range is this bizarre and irrational deep fear they seem to have of being alone. It's almost like they'd rather put up with an abusive or absent partner who makes their life miserable instead of just being single. I say this from my experience and observations of people of my parent's generation, many of whom have adult children who aren't even in the household anymore.

The issue we seem to have today though is women having all of these illegitimate children who have no father at all in the picture, not just physically but financially as well. I don't really have to go into why this is a horrible situation to be in, both for the mother and the children.

For the Millennials born between 1982-1992, the grandparents are typically born between the late 1910s and early 1930s. The late 1910s - early 1930s got married before no fault divorces became law around 1970 in most states. This cohort didn't divorce as much. The latter part of the Silent Generation (late 1930s/early 1940s births) were the first wave of divorcees in the 1970s. These were the parents of the Generation X'ers (1965-1981 births) who were the original latchkey kids. Most of the Gen X latchkey kids are now parents themselves.

As you'll see momentarily, the first wave of divorcees in the Silents were fundamentally different than the Boomers who later popularized divorce in the 1980s and 1990s. Many of the first wave Silents getting divorced were getting out of bad situations, often abusive situations. Some of the Silents caught the early part of the Sexual Revolution, and some were influenced by first wave feminism of Betty Freidan (a GI Generation member, born 1921). A lot of the Silents did not have robust pre-marriage sexual experience. Also, since the Silents were born mainly during the Great Depression, when no one wanted babies and birth control was less advanced than now, they were a smaller generation that didn't make a big impact on the cultural narrative. The later Baby Boomers had the scale to take advantage of changing cultural narrative and the timing of it was relevant, as it happened during their adolescence.

The later GI Gen and early Silent Gen individuals who were not getting divorced gave birth to the parents of a large swath of the Millennial generation, known as the Baby Boomers. The Baby Boomers were reaching sexual maturity as the Sexual Revolution was going on. They were the guinea pigs of promiscuity. Promiscuity does affect the ability to pair bond long term. Boomers were unaware of this. Boomers thought that they could have sex before marriage and it wouldn't impact their perception of long term pair bonding. And yet, it did. Boomers still believed in marriage because the script they received had marriages. All their parents were married and their parents were staying together.

I sense that Boomers were a very confused generation, caught in the middle of their parents having longer term marriages, and being in the early stages of a Sexual Revolution that changed the mores of sexuality. That's part of why @sangheilios observed a irrational phobia of being alone. Boomers were given the example of coupledom at all times by their parents and expected to live out that script.

A good portion of Millennials came of age in the 1990s, when divorce had established itself as commonplace. Boomers were not hesitant to divorce in the 1990s. As Millennials, we were not the original children of divorce. Gen X'ers were. However, Millennials were the first large generation to be affected by divorce. Also, Millennials have observed a sexual marketplace which has actually followed the economic conditions of era. Since 1980 in the United States, there has been a hollowing out of the middle class with a massive upward redistribution of wealth. In the sexual marketplace, with unchecked promiscuity and female hypergamy and a male surplus, there's been an upward redistribution of sexual experience, with the top tier men getting more access to vagina, and the middle to lower tier men getting less.

Lack of fatherly involvement is a partial cause in young men having subpar sex lives. Lack of fatherly involvement reduces income. Men with worse economic prospects get less poontang in an environment of unchecked female hypergamy. The exception to this occurs if they are able to transform themselves into thuggish bad boys and achieve a criminal record, which increases access to vagina. If you are a law abiding supermarket cashier or GameStop clerk, you're probably not rolling in the vag. Lack of fatherly involvement also might involvement in testosterone building activities, which may serve to reduce sex appeal. Single moms are good at raising beta males because they raise boys in the way they wish boys would be, rather than in the way that makes the pusssies wet and panties drop.

 

[sangheilios]

@SW15

I think a lot of what you are mentioning here is a pretty good map to describe how all of this played out. One of the things I've always felt was that the baby boomers were the first generation to truly have excess. They enjoyed a period of time where as long as you put some sort of effort in, went to school or learned a trade you'd do very well in life. Generations before this literally worked to the bone just to barely get by. Things like partying, drugs, promiscuity, strip clubs were nowhere near as prevalent or rather accepted before 1950. It's amazing how much of a change occurred in such a relatively small time frame.

What I'm mentioning here seems to connect with the ideas you brought up above about having issues with bonding, etc. You think some woman or man who has been partying and sleeping around through the teen years and twenties is all of a sudden going to be marriage capable once they approach their 30s?

I think what we see now with youngish people now is that they don't want to get married because they saw and felt what it was like as a child.

 

[EyeBRollin]

It's probably better for sexless men to go down the overconsumption of alcohol path than the overconsumption of porn and accompanying fapping path.

The original article posted is evidence of the primary problem we're seeing the sexual marketplace. There's an terribly uneven distribution of vagina.

Nah. Alcohol is definitely more Physiologically toxic than fapping.

 

[redskinsfan92]

Too many fat women
Too many low T guys

 

[Spaz]

Too many fat women
Too many low T guys

So you're around.

How has ur improvements been going on?

I've not seen any milestones in ur thread, I trust you know the purpose for keeping on posting there, it sets new bar of standards not just for you but for others who come here.

You hv to give back something after learning some stuff here, ain't nothing is free young man.

 

[SW15]

@SW15

I think a lot of what you are mentioning here is a pretty good map to describe how all of this played out. One of the things I've always felt was that the baby boomers were the first generation to truly have excess. They enjoyed a period of time where as long as you put some sort of effort in, went to school or learned a trade you'd do very well in life. Generations before this literally worked to the bone just to barely get by. Things like partying, drugs, promiscuity, strip clubs were nowhere near as prevalent or rather accepted as they were in the 1960s through up to today.

What I'm mentioning here seems to connect with the ideas you brought up above about having issues with bonding, etc. You think some woman or man who has been partying and sleeping around through the teen years and twenties is all of a sudden going to be marriage capable once they approach their 30s?

I think what we see now with youngish people now is that they don't want to get married because they saw and felt what it was like as a child.

The Baby Boomers had excess because of a unique set of circumstances unlikely to be replicated in the present or future. After World War II, Europe and Japan were decimated. It would take both of those areas until 1965-1970 to be competitive economically on a global scale. Japan had a great 1970s and 1980s. The Nikkei crashed in 1989 and Japan has never truly recovered from that. With the U.S. being the dominant global economic force in the 1945-1970 era, the Baby Boomers were raised in prosperity and graduated into good economies when they decided to end their educations, whether it was high school, college, or beyond. Even the Boomers that whine about graduating into recessionary 1970s economies had a walk in the park compared to the Millennials who graduated in the late 2000s/early 2010s and the COVID 2020-2021 graduates.

It was a great time. Because Boomers weren't competing globally in the early parts of their careers, they had an advantage. They eventually squandered it. The Boomers basically rode the coattails of the GI Generation (1910-1925), who were one of the most accomplished generations, and didn't build upon the successes of the GI Generation. All the subsequent post Boomer generations have struggled to varying extents. X'ers routinely complain about being neglected and overlooked. This is partially due to being latchkey kids. Millennials have been decimated by an increasing need to go to college (the good middle class income jobs in factories were long gone by the time Millennials started turning 18 in the 2000-2005 time frame). The cost of college skyrocketed between 1980-present. Also, since more people were getting BA/BS degrees or more after 1980, the value of each individual BA/BS degree or MA/MS/MBA degree diminished. Millennials have had to pay more for degrees that haven't made them as marketable. Additionally, the Millennials have taken the brunt of the 2 worst recessions since WWII, the Great Recession of the late 2000s/early 2010s and COVID in 2020.

The Millennials were the first large generation to see their parents divorce to a large extent. I think you're right that a lot of Millennials grew up with messed up family dynamics. Some of the smarter Millennials don't want to repeat that. Even if they did want marriage, babies, and homes in the suburbs, they've been so crushed by student debt and recessions that they can't financially pull it off. Many of the older Millennials of the early 1980s that did get married went through their first divorce in the late 2010s, or will be part of the many post COVID divorces in the early 2020s.

You're correct that people who do spend their 18-29 years in numerous sexual relationships won't be good marriage material by 30. This is called carousel riding for women. Tinder, Hinge, and Bumble in any metro area of a sizable population will be full of women 27-39 years old who were/are carousel riders. It's not all on the women. Some men have blame in this. The top tier of men (roughly around the top 10% of men) who are getting most of the sex have no incentive to commit. The middle of the bell curve men are now getting lower quality women with higher BMIs and notch counts. Two causes of this are female hypergamy and male surpluses. These women won't make long term partners worthy of a enforceable legal contract. The better looking ones might be worth a 2-5 year relationship without a marital contract.

 

[Lookatu]

Having been around for awhile, I think the biggest contributing factors has been the internet and feminism, which led to mindset change in some females coupled with male pvssy enslavement and thirst. Which then spiralled to boring sex lives with each other(long term marriages) and divorce/single motherhood. Guys raised by single and often young mothers didn't really have the guidance or male mentor in their lives, further adding to the problems we face today. Gradually over time, female empowerment and those pro-females that pushed their agenda hard, led to certain females that should've never been in power of any kind(mental illness, jaded, hate for males, etc) to socially condition young males and weak older males to fit their agenda's and narratives. Couple that with the whole Social Media and Smartphones which made female pvssy more valuable than gold for some people.

I vividly remember in the late 90's when a coworker and I were having a conversation about buying a TV and he said he's not sure if he can get it and would have to ask the wife. I found that VERY weird but it was only the start of things to come from that point onward.

So bottom line is I blame technology for the decline to where we're at today.

 

[Lookatu]

Just to expand on the internet thing...
If we didn't have the internet:
- Guys wouldn't be able to look at unlimited porn and thus substituting and satisfying their sexual thirst and in return meeting and approaching less and less women.
- Women wouldn't be reading all this garbage and getting bad advice from other crazy b1tches on how to live their life.
- Women wouldn't be artifically pedestalized by having unlimited likes/attention/messages from said thirsty guys, further giving them a bigger ego and entitlement mentality.
- Looks would be a more realistic standard than it is today.
- Feminism would be kept more in check and in line with what originally Feminism was set out to do and not all these other motives perpetuated by the internet.
- People would be actually talking and meeting more in real life
- Less divorce as you wouldn't be looking at porn, looking for other options, fighting over financials to keep up with the Joneses(lavish things seen on the internet of what others have)
- The older generation didn't have "options" like we do on the internet now so if they got in a fight, they HAD to try to understand each other and work it out. Now adays if couples get in a fight, it's often more easy just to go on dating apps to find someone that will agree with you instead of trying to work it out with your partner. Its turned into viscious cycle where gals are fine until things arent' fine, then either gals or guys look elsewhere instead of making an effort to work it out.

There are countless other examples...