Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

Did your wife/ex-wife change after kids?

speed dawg

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My point is that being big, strong and tough is not very relevant for humans. Our evolution and our advantages over other species come precisely from tools, abstract calculations, and pro-social behaviors that lessen the importance of those traits compared to other species. The fact that women are attracted to those traits is a remnant of our long gone ancestors from which we also got our older brain parts, not a result of our recent evolution as homo sapiens, and that's why it's a mistake to think back to 50 000 years ago or whatever and imagine it as being some big brutes dominating the weak males like a pack of apes. That's not what the human species's trajectory is, it's not how we work.

And that leads into what my original point was, which is that the men Ranger claims sazc gets to here reflect the kind of man that men mostly are. "Betas" and "beta traits" are not the exception, it's this kind of site that is, but we all feel the pull to revert back and so when women enter the midst those tendencies can start to tug at men again.
I would not agree with that general statement. While I get your overall point, it's very naive to think those traits aren't greatly admired and useful, in many different areas.

No offense, but usually that statement is only uttered by those who do not have those traits.
 

AttackFormation

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I would not agree with that general statement. While I get your overall point, it's very naive to think those traits aren't greatly admired and useful, in many different areas.
I did not say they weren't admired, and useful because they are admired. I even said women are attracted to them because they are a remnant of our earlier ancestors before we became homo sapiens.

But that's not the same as the facts of how useful they are in hunter-gatherer societies when men have disputes, fight each other, or determine social structures. Our evolution into homo sapiens is because size, strength and toughness diminished in importance compared to our relatives such as chimpanzees, in favor of more advanced tool use, calculation, and pro-social behavior which formed our species. Hunter-gatherers don't have "alpha" males that go around beating up the physically weaker "beta" males and have their way with women, because that's not how our species evolved either in inclination or capacity, and that stupid pop-anthropological idea that circulates in parts of the manosphere needs to go.
 
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speed dawg

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I did not say they weren't admired, and useful because they are admired. I even said women are attracted to them because they are a remnant of our earlier ancestors before we became homo sapiens.

But that's not the same as the facts of how useful they are in hunter-gatherer societies when men have disputes, fight each other, or determine social structures. Our evolution into homo sapiens is because size, strength and toughness diminished in importance compared to our relatives such as chimpanzees, in favor of more advanced tool use, calculation, and pro-social behavior which formed our species. Hunter-gatherers don't have "alpha" males that go around beating up the physically weaker "beta" males and have their way with women, because that's not how our species evolved either in inclination or capacity, and that stupid pop-anthropological idea that circulates in parts of the manosphere needs to go.
I don't think we're far off here, but sort of approach it different ways. Make no mistake though, alphas still dominate betas, not necessarily with brute force, but they certainly manipulate situations. Stronger is always better.
 

AttackFormation

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I don't think we're far off here, but sort of approach it different ways. Make no mistake though, alphas still dominate betas, not necessarily with brute force, but they certainly manipulate situations. Stronger is always better.
Two notes:

1) We have to be careful not to define clinical psychopaths, narcissists and sadists - those who are able to exploit others because they lack a conscience - as "alpha". I regard them as abominations.
2) Yes, this is pretty much the point I wanted to make: human hierarchies and confrontations are based on tools, intellect and connections, not on brute strength like a pack of crocodiles or chimpanzees (especially not if either person has any clue or instinct of what to do in a fight, because then they'll go for things like eye gouges, knee stomps and headbutts). That's why the idea that 50 000 years ago it was the biggest guy around who dominated the other guys into cowed submission because of his big biceps, is a stupid pop-anthropological falsehood. I'm glad we agree.
 
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Two notes:

1) We have to be careful not to define clinical psychopaths, narcissists and sadists - those who are able to exploit others because they lack a conscience - as "alpha". I regard them as abominations.
2) Yes, this is pretty much the point I wanted to make: human hierarchies and confrontations are based on tools, intellect and connections, not on brute strength like a pack of crocodiles or chimpanzees (especially not if either person has any clue or instinct of what to do in a fight, because then they'll go for things like eye gouges, knee stomps and headbutts). That's why the idea that 50 000 years ago it was the biggest guy around who dominated the other guys into cowed submission because of his big biceps, is a stupid pop-anthropological falsehood. I'm glad we agree.
Chimpanzees are based on hunting. Gorillas are based on size. The human female is highly adaptable to the environment. The most sophisticated neuron brain structure known. The most successful breeding adaptation known.

If the world went to chaos, the women would adapt into harems for the men in power and strength.
If the world became totally submissive as in communism the women would default to rebels.

The one thing that’s constant is men who are willing to take calculated risks. The genes of most men will not go forward, even today as only 40% actually sire children and whereas a little over 80% of women will breed offspring. The DNA of 60% of men will never move forward
 

GT40

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Yes it’s pretty normal. I have two kids. 15 and 19. I’m or sex isn’t a priority. Two times a month is all she’s into for years.
It’s the norm and some dads never get laid.
 

GT40

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we need to take matters into our own hands. A wife that doesnt put out is no longer your wife.
True. But easier said than done. The laws
Are structured against us males. Alimony and child support can kill the bank acct.
Friend of mine is going through it now. He’s gonna be broke. Mostly cause of his **** spending habits over the years.
 

mrgoodstuff

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True. But easier said than done. The laws
Are structured against us males. Alimony and child support can kill the bank acct.
Friend of mine is going through it now. He’s gonna be broke. Mostly cause of his **** spending habits over the years.
Hes gonna need a part time job. Splitting bills with a well paid gf is smart too. Yeah we get hit. We can educate our sons.
 

logicallefty

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My ex-wife and I tried for THREE YEARS to have a child. We fvcked, and fvcked, and fvcked.. To the point it became a chore. She finally got preggo. During the pregnancy she had a glow about her in a good way and it was the best 9 months of our entire 12 year relationship. We were closer than ever, taking vacations, and having a great time. Then our daughter was born. After that, she got post partim (sp) depression and down down down she went. The crash was catastrophic. Less than a year after our daughter was born, she divorced me. She kept telling me, her family, my family, friends etc. that "Things between Lefty and I haven't been right for 'YEARS'".. I said "OK, so why did you try to have a child for three years with a man you were so unhappy with?" No answer. Even her own mother said "Yeah (ex wife name), why is that? Lefty has a point.". That was in 2004. The answer never came out until about 2016 when she told my mother "I was really immature back with I divorced Lefty. If I had it to do again I would have handled myself more like an adult".

So there's my story on kids and the ex. I love my daughter but would I have had her if I would have known her mom was gonna divorce me. Absolutely not. Call me what you want for saying that, I will stand firm behind it.
 
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highSpeed

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we need to take matters into our own hands. A wife that doesnt put out is no longer your wife.
Look, I've threatened and my wife has said go ahead. However, that's only until I actually do it. Then, when she finds out, she's going to feed me my f*cking lunch in the courts. It's like a go ahead and do it, I dare you type of thing. She says it but never intends for me to actually do it, she's calling my bluff. Yes, I know, it shouldn't be a bluff but the courts don't look kindly on the guy going out and getting some on the side in a family situation. Women, who the f*ck cares as the family courts would see it but the guy, he'd better toe her line. It's so messed up, believe me, I've been through it once.
 

mrgoodstuff

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Look, I've threatened and my wife has said go ahead. However, that's only until I actually do it. Then, when she finds out, she's going to feed me my f*cking lunch in the courts. It's like a go ahead and do it, I dare you type of thing. She says it but never intends for me to actually do it, she's calling my bluff. Yes, I know, it shouldn't be a bluff but the courts don't look kindly on the guy going out and getting some on the side in a family situation. Women, who the f*ck cares as the family courts would see it but the guy, he'd better toe her line. It's so messed up, believe me, I've been through it once.
We cant threaten them we just do it. And you dont have to go out of your way for someone who doesnt do it for you.
 

highSpeed

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My ex-wife and I tried for THREE YEARS to have a child. We fvcked, and fvcked, and fvcked.. To the point it became a chore. She finally got preggo. During the pregnancy she had a glow about her in a good way and it was the best 9 months of our entire 12 year relationship. We were closer than ever, taking vacations, and having a great time. Then our daughter was born. After that, she got post partim (sp) depression and down down down she went. The crash was catastrophic. Less than a year after our daughter was born, she divorced me. She kept telling me, her family, my family, friends etc. that "Things between Lefty and I haven't been right for 'YEARS'".. I said "OK, so why did you try to have a child for three years with a man you were so unhappy with?" No answer. Even her own mother said "Yeah (ex wife name), why is that? Lefty has a point.". That was in 2004. The answer never came out until about 2016 when she told my mother "I was really immature back with I divorced Lefty. If I had it to do again I would have handled myself more like an adult".

So there's my story on kids and the ex. I love my daughter but would I have had her if I would have known her mom was gonna divorce me. Absolutely not. Call me what you want for saying that, I will stand firm behind it.
Right there with you Lefty, believe me. It's like, ok, now I know I'm f*cked. I literally walk around every day on pins and needles, to the point where I don't want to be home anymore. I'm tired of being corrected in front of my kids, I don't want to interact with them anymore. It's like every day now is a f*cking grind, a chore when I should absolutely be having more fun than an adult man should be allowed to have. I'm not rich but I make solid bank and should be enjoying the f*ck out of myself but here I am stuck with an ahole who could care less about me, besides the paycheck I bring in.
 

highSpeed

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We cant threaten them we just do it. And you dont have to go out of your way for someone who doesnt do it for you.
If I knew I wouldn't get busted, I'd be out there banging away in a second, believe me. It's the thought of getting caught that keeps me from doing it.
 

mrgoodstuff

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Right there with you Lefty, believe me. It's like, ok, now I know I'm f*cked. I literally walk around every day on pins and needles, to the point where I don't want to be home anymore. I'm tired of being corrected in front of my kids, I don't want to interact with them anymore. It's like every day now is a f*cking grind, a chore when I should absolutely be having more fun than an adult man should be allowed to have. I'm not rich but I make solid bank and should be enjoying the f*ck out of myself but here I am stuck with an ahole who could care less about me, besides the paycheck I bring in.
Im glad you realize that now. A-hole is an a-hole.
 

mrgoodstuff

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If I knew I wouldn't get busted, I'd be out there banging away in a second, believe me. It's the thought of getting caught that keeps me from doing it.
Youll be fine. You might be lucky and find your a-hole wife jumps into gear due to the competition.
 

highSpeed

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Youll be fine. You might be lucky and find your a-hole wife jumps into gear due to the competition.
I swear, I'd laugh my a$$ off if that was the case and would truly show what an immature, self centered, narcissistic a-hole she is.
 

mrgoodstuff

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I swear, I'd laugh my a$$ off if that was the case and would truly show what an immature, self centered, narcissistic a-hole she is.
Be one. Might as well. Just make sure your kids are taken care of. Get a stable of females. Narcissist behaviors can get busted out. You have to do it to them. You learned loving it and supporting it doesnt work.
 
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