Wife doing 180 to save marriage

[StillSearching]

Virtue. An interesting word. The definition: behavior showing high moral standards

Living up to one’s self IS virtue. Suffering in silence or being a monk in the ivory tower of morality is the heart and soul of the weak man.

My question to you is...who’s moral standard are you referring to? That of the socially assigned “virtue” or the virtue of man by his birthright as a man? I am not in that old reality. It doesn’t work and enslaves men into the silent sufferer who is punished if he steps out of line socially.

I am far beyond those pompously assigned moral dictates. A man must formulate his own codes, thus the definition of his own virtue.
For this reason I am willing to accept any and all consequences of my actions.

I have never once in this forum have asked for advice on any situation. I select my own decisions. I learned this years ago. When a man asks for advice on one of his problems, he is actually relinquishing authority of himself to a group agreement. Thus his failure is not his. It’s the groups.

His own.
Cheating, no matter how you spin it, is NOT virtuous. It only hurts him.
" I select my own decisions. I learned this years ago. When a man asks for advice on one of his problems, he is actually relinquishing authority of himself to a group agreement. Thus his failure is not his. It’s the groups.". So tell me......How do you learn anything? This is quite puzzling to me. Is it possible that someone may know something you don't?

 

[highSpeed]

No. I'm saying he can leave. It's his best choice in the long run. In the end it's just OP and his future.
It's not about a "a pat on the head", it's about a better future. And not ending up in the same scenario again.
If you don't sacrifice the present for the future,.....well, you're just plain asking for your past to hit you upside your head again.
Your most precious asset is not youth, it's memory. Youth is wasted on the young for a reason....So we don't do stupid s**t over and over.

That's the point though, everyone says, "oh, you can just leave." Criminey, it's not that simple once you have kids, it's just not. No matter what agreement that you get that might even remotely be favorable to you, can be re-litigated at any time, any. You p*ss her off for some reason, you can end up back in court. It could event take a few years just to work out the initial agreement, you know, the one that can be revisited on a whim from her.

How exactly is that better for his future? If he's smart and plays things right, he could easily get a few years out of a mistress or mistresses. So say your kid is 8-9, you get 3-4 years out of a mistress, kid is now 12-13. Yea, you'll probably eventually get busted but at least you had 3-4 good years of banging a mistress and hanging out with your kid. If his "wife" wants to re-engage at some point and start doing what a wife should be doing, great, reconsider your path at that point.

If she busts you and wants a divorce, it wasn't like you weren't going to get divorce raped because you were the proverbial "good guy." And anyway, if he went another 3-4 years and she still wasn't putting out but then found out and wanted a divorce, he was going to end up there anyway, at least he enjoyed himself with the mistress and the kid(s) along the way, he just drug it out a bit more to squeeze some extra juice out of the situation.

You don't realize that you're sacrificing the present for the future. She's dtf all the time, she seems to have a good head on her shoulders, you think you've found someone who gets it. It's a mistake my friend, we all make them, no matter how good we are. Make no mistake about it, as a guy, you get divorced and your time with your kids is going to be limited at best, literally no contact at all at worst. Why not drag that out a bit if you can and enjoy yourself?

 

[highSpeed]

His own.
Cheating, no matter how you spin it, is NOT virtuous. It only hurts him.
" I select my own decisions. I learned this years ago. When a man asks for advice on one of his problems, he is actually relinquishing authority of himself to a group agreement. Thus his failure is not his. It’s the groups.". So tell me......How do you learn anything? This is quite puzzling to me. Is it possible that someone may know something you don't?

You think getting divorced isn't going to hurt him? And her violating her marriage contract because she knows she can get away with it, that's not virtuous either. So do you continue to suffer in silence, get divorce raped immediately or try to find some paths to happiness that do not involve getting divorce raped immediately?

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I agree 100%

Cuddling wouldn't cut it.

It was A PITIFUL crumb if even that.

Women do not work that way. Especially a long-married women. She needs time to adjust and get with the program. You are expecting the utterly impossible.

Shes already forced him into a sexless position. He went along with it. She sees him that way now. It doesn't change easily. Ifbhe cant be punish in his State for a mistress he should do It. Leaving should strongly considered but the mistress is interim. Many wives assume a controller position in their marriage. You wont pop her out that position because its where she wants to be.

 

[StayOrGo?]

It was A PITIFUL crumb if even that. Shes already forced him into a sexless position. He went along with it. She sees him that way now. It doesn't change easily. Ifbhe cant be punish in his State for a mistress he should do It. Leaving should strongly considered but the mistress is interim. Many wives assume a controller position in their marriage. You wont pop her out that position because its where she wants to be.

Man, I know it sounds pitiful, but getting the extra affection was really nice. Things have been very cold and detached between us so to have her cuddle me and now send me text messages throughout the day about how much she loves me, how she loves me so much it hurts, etc.. makes me feel pretty good. We haven't had sex since our conversation but mainly I think because neither of us want it to seem forced or obligatory. Also, I've really failed in the parenting/home front aspect and because our daughter sleeps with my wife we have zero opportunity for sex without effort and planning. Literally I'd need to get a hotel room or pull her into the bathroom for a quickie, which is fine, but I'm 45 and its not exactly ideal. Especially if we're going to break the ice after a 6 moth break.

 

[StayOrGo?]

In a sexless marriage, don't think for a second that she wouldn't do it to you if Chad Thunderc0ck that was younger and financially well off hit her up.

Toss the shyte and move on. Let's be honest....you're fvcking miserable. I've been there. Never again!

Since I awoke and believe AWALT I obviously have to agree that she'd **** Chad Thundercock and leave me if the opportunity was right. But I am also pretty confident that she doesn't have the opportunity to do so. Regardless, does the fact that she would do it automatically mean I should? I realize in my case there are obvious justifications for leaving, sexless, affectionless, etc... But it sounds like you're advocating a general rule that men should be hypergamous like women.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Man, I know it sounds pitiful, but getting the extra affection was really nice. Things have been very cold and detached between us so to have her cuddle me and now send me text messages throughout the day about how much she loves me, how she loves me so much it hurts, etc.. makes me feel pretty good. We haven't had sex since our conversation but mainly I think because neither of us want it to seem forced or obligatory. Also, I've really failed in the parenting/home front aspect and because our daughter sleeps with my wife we have zero opportunity for sex without effort and planning. Literally I'd need to get a hotel room or pull her into the bathroom for a quickie, which is fine, but I'm 45 and its not exactly ideal. Especially if we're going to break the ice after a 6 moth break.

She knows it makes you feel a little better. But its a slap in the face. She should be having regular sex with you. When they assume control you are under them, nothing to be desired.

When men and women have been out of sex for a long time you have to start doing it to bring it back alive. Talking fixes nothing and this is where she wanted you.

Dude. Don't listen to her words. If she loved you she would be having sex with you.

 

[Epic Days]

His own.
Cheating, no matter how you spin it, is NOT virtuous. It only hurts him.
" I select my own decisions. I learned this years ago. When a man asks for advice on one of his problems, he is actually relinquishing authority of himself to a group agreement. Thus his failure is not his. It’s the groups.". So tell me......How do you learn anything? This is quite puzzling to me. Is it possible that someone may know something you don't?

Of course people know things I don’t. However, they don’t get to dictate virtue.
Virtue is a frame of reference. Religious, cultural, socially.
I am not for or against a man cheating. He laid down the parameters. He needs intimacy but will not give up day to day life with his kids.

Any and all solutions presented do not work. I.E. talking to his wife, divorcing and most likely give up his kids, raped by the court, etc.

So he will suffer in silence. Being the dutiful little culturally trained docile male. He admits this is his own doing.

Your idea of virtue and morality are a social or religious context. I’m not in your reality. Stop making this about me. If you don’t like it, shove it.

 

[AJ84]

Since I awoke and believe AWALT I obviously have to agree that she'd **** Chad Thundercock and leave me if the opportunity was right. But I am also pretty confident that she doesn't have the opportunity to do so. Regardless, does the fact that she would do it automatically mean I should? I realize in my case there are obvious justifications for leaving, sexless, affectionless, etc... But it sounds like you're advocating a general rule that men should be hypergamous like women.

Don’t assume that your wife can’t get chad thunder***k first of all. Never assume a woman can’t get laid by a hot man. Hot guys may not want to marry her, but they may not turn down sex esp if she is attractive, even if older.
And let’s say you get your hot mistress and find out that your wife is getting some on the side as well, even if he wasn’t hot. Will you feel better that she is having sex with some other dude uglier than you while she wouldn’t have sex with you?

You need to move away from this assumption that your wife has little options while you have many, and this gives you the upper hand, so staying with her is fine because of this assumption. Never assume anything until it’s proven to be true.

You should not have to put up with a wife who is cold to you. But if she’s not meeting your needs consistently and despite your leadership, leave her, don’t start playing games that may blow up in your face or affect your kids.

 

[Atom Smasher]

It was A PITIFUL crumb if even that. Shes already forced him into a sexless position. He went along with it. She sees him that way now. It doesn't change easily. Ifbhe cant be punish in his State for a mistress he should do It. Leaving should strongly considered but the mistress is interim. Many wives assume a controller position in their marriage. You wont pop her out that position because its where she wants to be.

We don't know how much he trained her with his former behavior. That's the unknown factor. I'd be slow to advise a guy to do a major, irreversible and disruptive change to his family and especially his daughter without at least being certain.

I just don't see a time constraint here. Why not tread carefully and be certain and convinced instead of jumping on the quick 2 minute advice of our resident keyboard psychologists? Thee's too much at stake, especially the well-being of his daughter.

It might be time for him to leave or take other action, but I'd be careful, deliberate and convinced before letting the genie out of the bottle.

 

[lamath]

Don’t assume that your wife can’t get chad thunder***k first of all. Never assume a woman can’t get laid by a hot man. Hot guys may not want to marry her, but they may not turn down sex esp if she is attractive, even if older.
And let’s say you get your hot mistress and find out that your wife is getting some on the side as well, even if he wasn’t hot. Will you feel better that she is having sex with some other dude uglier than you while she wouldn’t have sex with you?

You need to move away from this assumption that your wife has little options while you have many, and this gives you the upper hand, so staying with her is fine because of this assumption. Never assume anything until it’s proven to be true.

I was told the same thing when i left ex of 12 year and my assumption was right. She is still not over me and even after telling her i was seeing someone else she told me the door was still open.

I never had any doubt about her being faithful,

because i was confident in my worth/smv.



Imo op should still try to fix things, unless he knows deep down things wont change.

 

[AJ84]

I was told the same thing when i left ex of 12 year and my assumption was right. She is still not over me and even after telling her i was seeing someone else she told me the door was still open.

I never had any doubt about her being faithful, because i was confident in my worth/smv.

That may not be the case with OP. I don’t think it’s wise for him to assume she’s got no options and also for him to assume he will have hot 20 yr olds blowing up his phone because he declared himself high SMV.
He mentioned this leverage he thinks he has over her, more than one in this tread. Maybe he does but maybe he doesn’t and who wants to find out the hard way?

And even if he does? What then, he continues to be in an unhappy marriage and mess around? Meeting and hooking up with women takes time, so he will need to find a way to do that behind his family’s back and then make time and effort to maintain the mistress(s). If he thinks no one in his family will notice a change, that’s naive.

If he was single he could hook up with women with more ease, rather than have to lie to his kids about where he’s going.

Just think that if it’s really not working despite them both trying, and in particular his wife making some changes, at some point move on and be fully free to date. That’s what he seems to want to do anyway.

 

[lamath]

That may not be the case with OP. I don’t think it’s wise for him to assume she’s got no options and also for him to assume he will have hot 20 yr olds blowing up his phone because he declared himself high SMV.
He mentioned this leverage he thinks he has over her, more than one in this tread. Maybe he does but maybe he doesn’t and who wants to find out the hard way?

And even if he does? What then, he continues to be in an unhappy marriage and mess around? Meeting and hooking up with women takes time, so he will need to find a way to do that behind his family’s back and then make time and effort to maintain the mistress(s). If he thinks no one in his family will notice a change, that’s naive.

If he was single he could hook up with women with more ease, rather than have to lie to his kids about where he’s going.

Just think that if it’s really not working despite them both trying, and in particular his wife making some changes, at some point move on and be fully free to date. That’s what he seems to want to do anyway.

I agree with you here.
Cheating is not the way.
The mindset of having leverage towards her is not either.

However effort towards making the marriage work should not be one sided, after awhile resentment will built up.
I also think that there is a limit to no sex for a long period of time, pushing someone to cheat to fulfill his need.
With kids and combined assets leaving the other person can be very difficult.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Wife did a "AMS" on him and whispered sweet nothings to him. Her words soften his resolve. And the cuddle is a slap in the face.

If she cared about how badly she hurt him she'd be able to allow her body to him. She would lubricate after he started copulation. All she has to do is to like him enough. B

If she feels violated by him or disgusted at his presense, why is she with him.

 

[samspade]

If cheating was bad for the children, why do the vast amount of women cheat? Women cheat way more than men and don’t you even think of denying it.

I'm not against the OP cheating necessarily. But are you saying that cheating (and being found out) isn't bad for the children since women do it? To me, it doesn't matter which partner cheats. If a child endures this level of disappointment from his mother or father, it's probably going to affect him or her negatively. Note this has nothing to do with the FI in this case, I'm talking strictly about the kids' welfare, not whether men should be henpecked while women cheat with impunity.

Ninja edit- I may have missed a few posts that covered this already...I was on page 3. Whoops.

 

[Epic Days]

I agree with you here.
Cheating is not the way.
The mindset of having leverage towards her is not either.

However effort towards making the marriage work should not be one sided, after awhile resentment will built up.
I also think that there is a limit to no sex for a long period of time, pushing someone to cheat to fulfill his need.
With kids and combined assets leaving the other person can be very difficult.

This becomes an unsolvable situation where a solution is being demanded. Or demanded based on his impulse to survive.

This is a socially created debacle and not really created by the well intentioned man entering into union. This is created to subvert the basic biology of human beings for an outcome that doesn’t look like humans anymore. Like reprogramming a machine or a computer. This comes from the assumption that man is only an animal and never anything more.

There will be no evolutionary change in this area. What is being asked of a man, is to be something he is not. A conforming machine.
The eventual outcome is collapse of course.

 

[lamath]

This becomes an unsolvable situation where a solution is being demanded. Or demanded based on his impulse to survive.

This is a socially created debacle and not really created by the well intentioned man entering into union. This is created to subvert the basic biology of human beings for an outcome that doesn’t look like humans anymore. Like reprogramming a machine or a computer. This comes from the assumption that man is only an animal and never anything more.

There will be no evolutionary change in this area. What is being asked of a man, is to be something he is not. A conforming machine.
The eventual outcome is collapse of course.

Most likely outcome yes.

 

[highSpeed]

I was told the same thing when i left ex of 12 year and my assumption was right. She is still not over me and even after telling her i was seeing someone else she told me the door was still open.

I never had any doubt about her being faithful,

because i was confident in my worth/smv.



Imo op should still try to fix things, unless he knows deep down things wont change.

Agree, if he can fix things, fix them. I agree with the general sentiment that it's cheaper to keeper. That being said, look, no matter how it shakes out, in the event that things do not work out, he's getting f*cked, one way or another. I'm amazed that people on here think that if he's a good dude, family many, things like that, that the judge is going to look at that and think, "hmmm, I won't f*ck this guy because he's a good dude." I'm amazed that anyone on here would think that if he's a good dude and things don't work out, she's going to say "hmmm, he's a good dude, I'm not going to f*ck him over."

Look, would I say to most guys or even right away, that they should run out and get a mistress? No, hell no! But for God's sake, it's been 6 months man, 6 f*cking months. At what point is she thinking, "hmmm, weird, I haven't hugged, touched, kissed, held hands and/or f*cked my husband in 6 months, I wonder if he's p*ssed?" She knows she hasn't done any of those things. At what point has she broken her wedding vows/contract by voiding the sexual intimacy part of the contract? Oh well, it's because he hasn't led. Criminey, that's the lazy answer. Could it also be part she's an a$$hole? What do you want to bet there's a good chance that's most of the problem?

So what would be wrong, assuming things are going way south, to even consider taking a mistress? Is that the first choice? No. Is it the preferred choice? No. But what do you do when you don't want to get divorce raped, which could literally take years and you don't want to walk away from your kids? You do what you can to hold on, if that includes a mistress, I'm not sure where the problem is.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Yes she is being an azzhole. I dont think a dj should go 6 months without sex from their gf or wife. Not even more than 30 days is acceptable. I can only imagine how angry he is. Imho taking on a lover is not cheating due to her refusal to continue to consumate the marriage. He deserves a minimum amount of physical affirmations and intercourse.

Shutting a husband off sex is a real selfish and azzhole move.

Did you realize some wives shut the husband down to see if he will take matter into his own hands and do something about it? This was revealed to me. In this circumstance they WANT you to man up take on a lover and stop tugging on her skirt and begging for puzzy.

 

[AJ84]

I agree with you here.
Cheating is not the way.
The mindset of having leverage towards her is not either.

However effort towards making the marriage work should not be one sided, after awhile resentment will built up.
I also think that there is a limit to no sex for a long period of time, pushing someone to cheat to fulfill his need.
With kids and combined assets leaving the other person can be very difficult.

I agree there is a limit to the sex thing. Completely selfish to do this in the context of monogamy.
The husband and wife are the foundation from which the family is built and from which it functions. Shared and mutually enjoyed Intimacy is a big part of keeping the foundation together. If one or both partners don’t want to be intimate it’s a big problem. And cheating doesn’t address that problem nor fix a broken foundation but I understand why a man or woman would step out and seek it if their needs are not being met at home.

No easy decisions to make here.