"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"

She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.

You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.

She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.

The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.

Read more...

Why is OLD the last couple years borderline unusable??

I_have_BDE

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jun 2, 2023
Messages
543
Reaction score
242
Age
42
Dating apps have influenced society as much as birth control pills did. It took whoring to a whole nother level and made it accepted.
But most of the women on there are not attractive. What percentage of guys stoop to that level? Do you think the guys on here dumpster dive on OLD but are a shamed to admit it?
 

"She Liked You in March. It's October Now."

Attraction runs on a clock.

She flirted for weeks. Touched your arm. Found reasons to be alone with you. And you were careful. Respectful. Waiting for the right moment.

The moment had a shelf life. It expired around month two, and by the time you asked her out, she'd quietly filed you under "little brother."

One of the hardest lessons inside the 22 Rules: women rarely wait. Interest either grows or it decays, and nothing decays it faster than a man who never moves.

Make the move while she's still inventing reasons to be near you.

Read more...

SW15

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
15,422
Reaction score
12,521
But most of the women on there are not attractive. What percentage of guys stoop to that level? Do you think the guys on here dumpster dive on OLD but are a shamed to admit it?
Plenty of men dumpster dive on the swipe apps. It's a real thing. I can't put an actual percentage to it. I will try though.

Roughly 80% of men are either beta or omega. 20% are alpha or sigma.

I think at least 25% of men are dumpster diving on swipe apps.
 

Bingo-Player

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
3,639
Reaction score
4,367
Location
uk
Until you get the itch and get randy thoughts going. C’mon man! It’s a fun game and you know it!
Its fun for all of 5 mins and that's the problem

Nothing sustainable ever really comes from It because nobody takes it seriously

its seen as this silly way too meet random people

When you talk to a girl in the gym or whatever , it forces her to pay attention to you and take you seriously

IRL can usually tell within about 10 mins if a girl Is going to be sexually compatible with me , online this could take 1-2 weeks and a lot of nonsense time wasting in-between
 

Redwood

Senior Don Juan
Joined
May 4, 2014
Messages
419
Reaction score
172
Location
Houston, Texas
I remember back in the days couchsurfing used to be really good for hooking up. You'd meet women that were interested in meeting foreign guys in whatever country you went to and you'd meet up, maybe stay overnight in their place and often hook up. Then it got taken over by some geeky tech company, became mainstream... and turned into garbage.

Somehow the more mainstream something becomes the worse it gets.
I'm pretty sure it's always been that way.
 

Bokanovsky

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
5,520
Reaction score
5,698
The main problem with OLD is the skewed gender ratio. It is estimated that 76% of Tinder users are male. In other words, there are three males for each female. And there is no reason to believe that Bumble and Hinge are any better.

Can you think of any other setting where the ratio is this skewed? A nightclub at the end of the night, close to last call? A sci-fi convention? A wrestling match? Hardly good venues for picking up girls. And this ratio will work against you even if you are in the top 20-25%. Your value automatically goes down once you enter this sausagefest arena.
 
Last edited:

"So, What Do You Do for Fun?"

She asks it casually, mid-sip. And you feel the floor open up, because the honest answer is work, gym, and a couple shows you're half-watching.

Women rarely say this out loud, but a man with a life is attractive before he says a word. The guy who spent Saturday deep-sea fishing and came back with photos and a story — he walks in already interesting.

The "22 Rules" pushed me to build a life worth talking about. Turns out the fastest way to be interesting to women is to be interested in your own life first.

Read more...

Pierce Manhammer

Moderator
Joined
Jun 2, 2021
Messages
4,900
Reaction score
5,868
Location
PRC
One thing I think is hilarious is OLD apps
like Bumble that show you:

Lives in (city)
Current Location (city)

If you’re on with any frequency you end up seeing the same people over time. If it’s between 9pm-5am and she’s not in her lives in city means she’s getting railed by yet another guy .

It’s kinda humorous that this feature gives you an inkling of a woman’s “mobility” if you know where to look.
 

Solomon

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
6,555
Reaction score
4,116
Location
Inside her mind
OLD always has been trash but I would say after quarantine it was done. Now on Tinder in my area it's a bunch of poly chicks or liberal feminists. 10 years ago it was meh now it's the norm. Bumble is a bunch of fake profiles. Just got banned of Hinge for no reason but that turned into Trash when covid hit

OLD causes depression better of getting an AI girlfriend (joking)
 

Solomon

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
6,555
Reaction score
4,116
Location
Inside her mind
I have a part time job a couple nights a week I do in retail. So of course lots of younger people. I never see any of the ladies on the OLD sites who work there except for this one lady in her late 30s who's obese, and borderline Downs. She's been on the apps for years. Being she's borderline she has no bf of course. Otherwise none of the ladies use it. The younger ones you'd be shocked not all go for chads and many go for normal guys. They meet them in person or at school, not OLD crap.
But the"Blackpill" Incels would have you believe every woman wants a 6'6,245 pound, ripped, rich witha Bugatti Gigachad.
If you just walk outside reality would tell you different
OLD was always advocated to supplement and not be your main source to funnel thots
 
M

member160292

Guest
When you hang around this board allot then some of the bad luck will rub off on you too.
How’s it going, Luke?
Grammar is quite telling
 
M

member160292

Guest
Anyways,
Going back on topic, OLD should supplement your life. Maybe switch off that brain receptor that tells you that you NEED to have women in your life? The funny part about life is that you really don’t attract what you try to pursue. When you focus on other things in life, things you actually want just come naturally. It’s almost like if you don’t manifest it, good things will come. Call my book The Common Sense
 

"I'm Not Looking for Anything Serious Right Now"

When a woman says it, guys hear a confession. A heads-up. A scheduling conflict.

Here's the translation: I don't feel anything. Right now. With you.

Watch what happens when a man triggers actual attraction. The busy career, the recent breakup, the "not in a place to date" — all of it evaporates instantly. The same woman who was guarding her freedom is suddenly free every night.

The "22 Rules" explain why. When the right switches flip, her timeline rearranges itself around you.

Read more...

Gamisch

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 2, 2022
Messages
5,350
Reaction score
6,256
But most of the women on there are not attractive. What percentage of guys stoop to that level? Do you think the guys on here dumpster dive on OLD but are a shamed to admit it?
Most men obviously don't admit this, but as you can tell by this thread its slowly becomes known and talked about.

Most men aren't dumpster diving on purpose, it just happens and tend to go that way. Imo you can say that a man sometimes matches with women few points below his SMV. What he does with it is on him..if you try to kill a dryspell or something it might be a option.

Anyways,
Going back on topic, OLD should supplement your life. Maybe switch off that brain receptor that tells you that you NEED to have women in your life? The funny part about life is that you really don’t attract what you try to pursue. When you focus on other things in life, things you actually want just come naturally. It’s almost like if you don’t manifest it, good things will come. Call my book The Common Sense
Dont know if I'm the only one, but somehow i have trouble doing both OLD and real life approaches.

This brain receptor thing you talk about is interesting. In my case i have to admtr that after some time the low quality of OLD gets to me. When you match with a bunch of women aren't attracted to you take it with you into the real world.

Despite all the facts given, such as male female ratio is screwed, you'll always date beneath your smv or find a hot one that batshyte crazy, and OFCOURSE the apps that try to get money outta you. Despite all of this the brain simply reacts emotionally to short term impulses . Not getting what you want = feeling bad.

I will try to get back on OLD sooner or later, but for now I am fine without it. It also gives me more incentive to go out and talk to womem in real life.
 
M

member160292

Guest
Dont know if I'm the only one, but somehow i have trouble doing both OLD and real life approaches.

This brain receptor thing you talk about is interesting. In my case i have to admtr that after some time the low quality of OLD gets to me. When you match with a bunch of women aren't attracted to you take it with you into the real world.

Despite all the facts given, such as male female ratio is screwed, you'll always date beneath your smv or find a hot one that batshyte crazy, and OFCOURSE the apps that try to get money outta you. Despite all of this the brain simply reacts emotionally to short term impulses . Not getting what you want = feeling bad.

I will try to get back on OLD sooner or later, but for now I am fine without it. It also gives me more incentive to go out and talk to womem in real life.
We all know that OLD is a crapshoot, it’s like sliding’ into a chick’s DM. Almost the same as cold approaching without the effort. The key to success is not letting it get to you, have fun with it and don’t expect anything. I think most people complain about it because they let it affect them too much and get frustrated. They take it as a representation of who they are, who busted. Heck, it’s a free service.
The ratio has always been screwed, that’s why when you go to clubs, either you bring hot women with you or you’ll be paying a cover or have to wait in line. That’s been going on for decades
 

BillyPilgrim

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 9, 2021
Messages
6,128
Reaction score
4,955
Most men obviously don't admit this, but as you can tell by this thread its slowly becomes known and talked about.

Most men aren't dumpster diving on purpose, it just happens and tend to go that way. Imo you can say that a man sometimes matches with women few points below his SMV. What he does with it is on him..if you try to kill a dryspell or something it might be a option.


Dont know if I'm the only one, but somehow i have trouble doing both OLD and real life approaches.

This brain receptor thing you talk about is interesting. In my case i have to admtr that after some time the low quality of OLD gets to me. When you match with a bunch of women aren't attracted to you take it with you into the real world.

Despite all the facts given, such as male female ratio is screwed, you'll always date beneath your smv or find a hot one that batshyte crazy, and OFCOURSE the apps that try to get money outta you. Despite all of this the brain simply reacts emotionally to short term impulses . Not getting what you want = feeling bad.

I will try to get back on OLD sooner or later, but for now I am fine without it. It also gives me more incentive to go out and talk to womem in real life.
You gotta troll some of these women to make it worth your while
 

Reincarnated

Don Juan
Joined
Jan 2, 2023
Messages
170
Reaction score
151
In short, because eventually the investors need to see a positive ROI. When these apps were newer, gaining users was the primary focus, so free services met the objective. However, as these business matured (like any business), turning a profit becomes more important, hence the more severe paywalls.
 

BillyPilgrim

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 9, 2021
Messages
6,128
Reaction score
4,955
In short, because eventually the investors need to see a positive ROI. When these apps were newer, gaining users was the primary focus, so free services met the objective. However, as these business matured (like any business), turning a profit becomes more important, hence the more severe paywalls.
Are you sure positive ROI is the extent of the investor motivation?
 

"I just moved here from Florida."

That sentence contains at least five follow-up questions she WANTS you to ask. Where in Florida? What brought you here? How long have you been in the area? What do you miss? How does it compare to here?

She handed them to you on a silver platter. And you said, "Oh cool. I come here every week. I love this band. Ummm... pretty crowded tonight."

She smiled politely. Nodded. And never texted you back.

I was that guy for years. Talking too much. Listening too little. Panicking about my next sentence while she was literally feeding me the answers.

Then I found 22 rules that fixed the whole thing. Rule number one: shut up and listen. She'll tell you exactly what to say.

Read more...

Gamisch

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 2, 2022
Messages
5,350
Reaction score
6,256
We all know that OLD is a crapshoot, it’s like sliding’ into a chick’s DM. Almost the same as cold approaching without the effort. The key to success is not letting it get to you, have fun with it and don’t expect anything. I think most people complain about it because they let it affect them too much and get frustrated. They take it as a representation of who they are, who busted. Heck, it’s a free service.
The ratio has always been screwed, that’s why when you go to clubs, either you bring hot women with you or you’ll be paying a cover or have to wait in line. That’s been going on for decades
100. Sometimes we need to hear another perspective to change our minds, so thanks for this post bro!
 

BillyPilgrim

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 9, 2021
Messages
6,128
Reaction score
4,955
100. Sometimes we need to hear another perspective to change our minds, so thanks for this post bro!
And this is why you pay the cover (getting Tinder Gold, etc)
 

MatureDJ

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
12,738
Reaction score
5,156
I have a part time job a couple nights a week I do in retail. So of course lots of younger people. I never see any of the ladies on the OLD sites who work there except for this one lady in her late 30s who's obese, and borderline Downs. She's been on the apps for years. Being she's borderline she has no bf of course. Otherwise none of the ladies use it. The younger ones you'd be shocked not all go for chads and many go for normal guys. They meet them in person or at school, not OLD crap.
I think I can remember one of "Roller" Steve Hoca's chat videos where the discussion was whether to go for functional Down's Syndrome chicks. :eek: :eek: :eek:
 

MatureDJ

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
12,738
Reaction score
5,156
The main problem with OLD is the skewed gender ratio. It is estimated that 76% of Tinder users are male. In other words, there are three males for each female. And there is no reason to believe that Bumble and Hinge are any better.

Can you think of any other setting where the ratio is this skewed? A nightclub at the end of the night, close to last call? A sci-fi convention? A wrestling match? Hardly good venues for picking up girls. And this ratio will work against you even if you are in the top 20-25%. Your value automatically goes down once you enter this sausagefest arena.
It's OVER for 76%Cels.
 

"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"

You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.

And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.

Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.

The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.

Read more...

Top