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Trying to convince a friend to swallow the red pill...

TheNewStyle123

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Hi everyone!

My friend (let's call him J) is up visiting this weekend and we are trying to make the best of this COVID situation by finding something to do out on the town. Anyways, I am 27, recently divorced, and having fun on the dating apps while applying the principles learned from 'The Rationale Male' as well as sosuave.com.

My friend is a great guy. He's attractive, well-built, successful, intelligent (Jesus christ, it sounds like I'm trying to set him up with someone haha), but he is a BETA. There is nothing wrong with that either. I am definitely still beta-esque, but I am trying to learn/apply the principles of being an alpha to all aspects of my life currently. The problem is, J doesn't want to hear about The Rationale Male, hypergamy, the feminine imperative, etc., and as Rollo mentioned in his book, your beta friends will do just that. They will be resistant. Try to flip them if you can.

J and I are sitting down at a bar last night. It's around 10:30 PM and he mentions something about this girl he has been talking to on bumble:


ME: "BEEN talking to? What do you mean by that? How long have you BEEN talking to this girl?"

J: "About a month now."

ME: "A month? Wait, like on bumble, or do you have her number?"

J: "Just on bumble."

Me: "WHAT. Dude, **** that. How have you not gotten her number yet?

J: "Well, I tried. A while ago I gave her my number on the app, but she kinda brushed it off and kept texting me over the app. So we have just continued to talk that way."

J goes onto explain that this girl has had a "really difficult time getting over her ex of 5 years".

Alright guys, what did J do wrong here? First off.. GET THEM OFF THE APPS. If you're interested in a girl and want to meet/talk, stop doing it on the apps and get those digits. That is your first **** test right there. If she doesn't give you her number, move on. Second, he has been talking to her FOR A MONTH on bumble. I don't need to comment further on that one. Third, this girl is obviously using J for some sort of comfort. She likes the idea of him chasing her and being there for her whenever she wants to log onto the app and have a guy compliment her, ask her about her day, listen to her, etc., and what does J get in return? The hope that one day he may get her cell phone number? Then what? In a year they can finally meet up? **** that. Finally, if a girl is confiding in you about how difficult it is to get over her ex BF of 5 years, she doesn't want to **** you. Hell, I was married for 3 years and knew my wife for 7 and I was ready to **** someone else almost instantly. (That sounds douchey, but she cheated on me twice and things had been bad for a while.. but that's another story).

I tried to lightly break some of this news to J, but he wasn't having it. I dropped the topic. If he wants to waste his time making this girl feel good and getting nothing in return, good luck to you man. If I don't get a girls number off the apps within a matter of days, I'm moving on to the next.

Thoughts gentlemen? Any other way I can break the news to J? Was I being too harsh? Not harsh enough? Wondering if any of you have had a difficult time convincing your beta friends to swallow the red pill.


- Matt
 

Serenity

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The best way is to wait until he gets burnt and comes to you for advice. You can't help anyone who's not willing to listen to it. You should definitely share your opinion, but avoid red pill terminology, express the concepts using more common terms.

My best friend had relationship issues a couple years ago. She wanted a "break to think about things", my friend wanted to work through the issues, but she went back to her parents and ignored him for weeks. While on a break she was seeing some other dude. My friend kept waiting, became depressed, didn't eat much and one time actually passed out from it while at work. That's when I had a conversation about it with him.

I told him there's no such thing as a "break", either they stay or they can fvck off. I told him she's not coming back, she's just too much of a coward to break up properly. He knew she was with some other dude and was unsure of whether they were sleeping together or not. I told him it's irrelevant whether they're fvcking or not, she's spending her time with another dude while ignoring you. I just laid it all out in front of him how incredibly disrespectful she was and how absolutely ridiculous it was to want a b!tch like that back.

He listened to me. He stopped contacting her, a week passed and she tried contacting him, but this time he just ignored her back and he was fvcking done with her.

You can't shove the red pill down their throat, you can only kindly offer it when they need it the most.

Since the topic is already opened up, keep inquiring about how it goes with that bumble chick. Don't try shoving more of your opinion down his throat just yet, just pay attention as he becomes more desperate and really starts losing hope. When he's really frustrated with the situation that's when you offer him a piece of red pill advice (using common terms). Right now he's not receptive, he's too hopeful still, be patient. Just like with my friend, he wouldn't have been receptive before or even very shortly after his GF took a break, I had to wait until he was really suffering and hope was about to run out.
 

TheNewStyle123

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The best way is to wait until he gets burnt and comes to you for advice. You can't help anyone who's not willing to listen to it. You should definitely share your opinion, but avoid red pill terminology, express the concepts using more common terms.

My best friend had relationship issues a couple years ago. She wanted a "break to think about things", my friend wanted to work through the issues, but she went back to her parents and ignored him for weeks. While on a break she was seeing some other dude. My friend kept waiting, became depressed, didn't eat much and one time actually passed out from it while at work. That's when I had a conversation about it with him.

I told him there's no such thing as a "break", either they stay or they can fvck off. I told him she's not coming back, she's just too much of a coward to break up properly. He knew she was with some other dude and was unsure of whether they were sleeping together or not. I told him it's irrelevant whether they're fvcking or not, she's spending her time with another dude while ignoring you. I just laid it all out in front of him how incredibly disrespectful she was and how absolutely ridiculous it was to want a b!tch like that back.

He listened to me. He stopped contacting her, a week passed and she tried contacting him, but this time he just ignored her back and he was fvcking done with her.

You can't shove the red pill down their throat, you can only kindly offer it when they need it the most.

Since the topic is already opened up, keep inquiring about how it goes with that bumble chick. Don't try shoving more of your opinion down his throat just yet, just pay attention as he becomes more desperate and really starts losing hope. When he's really frustrated with the situation that's when you offer him a piece of red pill advice (using common terms). Right now he's not receptive, he's too hopeful still, be patient. Just like with my friend, he wouldn't have been receptive before or even very shortly after his GF took a break, I had to wait until he was really suffering and hope was about to run out.
Thank you! That is great advice. I will try to ease into the topic with more common terminology when HE is ready rather than trying to 'convince' him of why this girl sucks. By the way sorry for all of the unedited curse words. I'm new to the forum!
 

Black Widow Void

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I agree with the advice given by Serenity
... and I'd like to add something

It's always good to be there for a pal and attempt to enlighten them, but also be aware of your motives. If (not saying that the OP is, and this is to any of you reading) find yourself arranged or frustrated over someones blue pill behavior, ask yourself why.

Our goal should be to aid our fellow members and friends from a place of helpfulness and not from a source of anger. Again, not claiming the OP is angry or anything.

A lot of times, we can become fired up because we see a behavior that reminds us of our former self (I see a lot of this behavior projected toward new forum members). I speak from personal experience on this because I've been guilty of trying to fix a friend - rather than trying to help.
 

Dash Riprock

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I've learned most guys are VERY resistant to dating advice from a friend because it's a shot to their ego, even if they know it's true.

OP, my advice to you: don't waste your time.

Even on SS there are only 3 types:

1- Those that "get it" and offer solid advice (10%)
2- Those that actually WANT to learn and are coachable (50%)
3- Those that are too obstinate, ignorant, argumentative, or just way beyond hope and helping (40%)

Question for you OP: You're divorced already at 27? Curious why you got married so soon and how long did it last?
 

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BackInTheGame78

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Hi everyone!

My friend (let's call him J) is up visiting this weekend and we are trying to make the best of this COVID situation by finding something to do out on the town. Anyways, I am 27, recently divorced, and having fun on the dating apps while applying the principles learned from 'The Rationale Male' as well as sosuave.com.

My friend is a great guy. He's attractive, well-built, successful, intelligent (Jesus christ, it sounds like I'm trying to set him up with someone haha), but he is a BETA. There is nothing wrong with that either. I am definitely still beta-esque, but I am trying to learn/apply the principles of being an alpha to all aspects of my life currently. The problem is, J doesn't want to hear about The Rationale Male, hypergamy, the feminine imperative, etc., and as Rollo mentioned in his book, your beta friends will do just that. They will be resistant. Try to flip them if you can.

J and I are sitting down at a bar last night. It's around 10:30 PM and he mentions something about this girl he has been talking to on bumble:


ME: "BEEN talking to? What do you mean by that? How long have you BEEN talking to this girl?"

J: "About a month now."

ME: "A month? Wait, like on bumble, or do you have her number?"

J: "Just on bumble."

Me: "WHAT. Dude, **** that. How have you not gotten her number yet?

J: "Well, I tried. A while ago I gave her my number on the app, but she kinda brushed it off and kept texting me over the app. So we have just continued to talk that way."

J goes onto explain that this girl has had a "really difficult time getting over her ex of 5 years".

Alright guys, what did J do wrong here? First off.. GET THEM OFF THE APPS. If you're interested in a girl and want to meet/talk, stop doing it on the apps and get those digits. That is your first **** test right there. If she doesn't give you her number, move on. Second, he has been talking to her FOR A MONTH on bumble. I don't need to comment further on that one. Third, this girl is obviously using J for some sort of comfort. She likes the idea of him chasing her and being there for her whenever she wants to log onto the app and have a guy compliment her, ask her about her day, listen to her, etc., and what does J get in return? The hope that one day he may get her cell phone number? Then what? In a year they can finally meet up? **** that. Finally, if a girl is confiding in you about how difficult it is to get over her ex BF of 5 years, she doesn't want to **** you. Hell, I was married for 3 years and knew my wife for 7 and I was ready to **** someone else almost instantly. (That sounds douchey, but she cheated on me twice and things had been bad for a while.. but that's another story).

I tried to lightly break some of this news to J, but he wasn't having it. I dropped the topic. If he wants to waste his time making this girl feel good and getting nothing in return, good luck to you man. If I don't get a girls number off the apps within a matter of days, I'm moving on to the next.

Thoughts gentlemen? Any other way I can break the news to J? Was I being too harsh? Not harsh enough? Wondering if any of you have had a difficult time convincing your beta friends to swallow the red pill.


- Matt
Honestly the only way a person who is in that mindset will see the light is from a woman ripping his heart out after he acted like a simp. It will probably happen more than once and it will take either him being sick and tired of the same thing happening or him being totally in love with a woman and just her sh!tting on him and rubbing it in his face with another guy.

A person has to want to get help. It is like an addict...you can do whatever you want and tell them whatever you want but until they decide to seek help and admit there is an issue nothing anyone will say will do any good.
 

TheNewStyle123

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I agree with the advice given by Serenity
... and I'd like to add something

It's always good to be there for a pal and attempt to enlighten them, but also be aware of your motives. If (not saying that the OP is, and this is to any of you reading) find yourself arranged or frustrated over someones blue pill behavior, ask yourself why.

Our goal should be to aid our fellow members and friends from a place of helpfulness and not from a source of anger. Again, not claiming the OP is angry or anything.

A lot of times, we can become fired up because we see a behavior that reminds us of our former self (I see a lot of this behavior projected toward new forum members). I speak from personal experience on this because I've been guilty of trying to fix a friend - rather than trying to help.
You make a great point man! And yeah I'm not angry or upset, just feeling for a friend. But you guys are all correct - I think what gets me the most worked up is seeing myself in his behavior. But as you mentioned, don't try to FIX, just assist.
 

TheNewStyle123

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I've learned most guys are VERY resistant to dating advice from a friend because it's a shot to their ego, even if they know it's true.

OP, my advice to you: don't waste your time.

Even on SS there are only 3 types:

1- Those that "get it" and offer solid advice (10%)
2- Those that actually WANT to learn and are coachable (50%)
3- Those that are too obstinate, ignorant, argumentative, or just way beyond hope and helping (40%)

Question for you OP: You're divorced already at 27? Curious why you got married so soon and how long did it last?
Yes.. married young. Young and stupid and in love haha. I was 24 when I got married to the girl I thought was of my dreams. After about 3 months I found out she was talking to another guy.. I was willing to forgive her and take a chance to make things work, but lo and behold 3 years later she did the same thing again. Fool me once... I just couldn't see her the same, take her back, or trust her after that. I am happy with my decision and I am enjoying being more independent!
 

bat soup

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Hi everyone!

My friend (let's call him J) is up visiting this weekend and we are trying to make the best of this COVID situation by finding something to do out on the town. Anyways, I am 27, recently divorced, and having fun on the dating apps while applying the principles learned from 'The Rationale Male' as well as sosuave.com.

My friend is a great guy. He's attractive, well-built, successful, intelligent (Jesus christ, it sounds like I'm trying to set him up with someone haha), but he is a BETA. There is nothing wrong with that either. I am definitely still beta-esque, but I am trying to learn/apply the principles of being an alpha to all aspects of my life currently. The problem is, J doesn't want to hear about The Rationale Male, hypergamy, the feminine imperative, etc., and as Rollo mentioned in his book, your beta friends will do just that. They will be resistant. Try to flip them if you can.

J and I are sitting down at a bar last night. It's around 10:30 PM and he mentions something about this girl he has been talking to on bumble:


ME: "BEEN talking to? What do you mean by that? How long have you BEEN talking to this girl?"

J: "About a month now."

ME: "A month? Wait, like on bumble, or do you have her number?"

J: "Just on bumble."

Me: "WHAT. Dude, **** that. How have you not gotten her number yet?

J: "Well, I tried. A while ago I gave her my number on the app, but she kinda brushed it off and kept texting me over the app. So we have just continued to talk that way."

J goes onto explain that this girl has had a "really difficult time getting over her ex of 5 years".

Alright guys, what did J do wrong here? First off.. GET THEM OFF THE APPS. If you're interested in a girl and want to meet/talk, stop doing it on the apps and get those digits. That is your first **** test right there. If she doesn't give you her number, move on. Second, he has been talking to her FOR A MONTH on bumble. I don't need to comment further on that one. Third, this girl is obviously using J for some sort of comfort. She likes the idea of him chasing her and being there for her whenever she wants to log onto the app and have a guy compliment her, ask her about her day, listen to her, etc., and what does J get in return? The hope that one day he may get her cell phone number? Then what? In a year they can finally meet up? **** that. Finally, if a girl is confiding in you about how difficult it is to get over her ex BF of 5 years, she doesn't want to **** you. Hell, I was married for 3 years and knew my wife for 7 and I was ready to **** someone else almost instantly. (That sounds douchey, but she cheated on me twice and things had been bad for a while.. but that's another story).

I tried to lightly break some of this news to J, but he wasn't having it. I dropped the topic. If he wants to waste his time making this girl feel good and getting nothing in return, good luck to you man. If I don't get a girls number off the apps within a matter of days, I'm moving on to the next.

Thoughts gentlemen? Any other way I can break the news to J? Was I being too harsh? Not harsh enough? Wondering if any of you have had a difficult time convincing your beta friends to swallow the red pill.


- Matt
You can't force the issue. If he asks for your advice, give it but don't expect him to actually take it.

Most guys have to learn from experience.

Obviously I agree that it's a complete waste of time talking to some chick for a month on a stupid app.
 

DarkRealm

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Hell, I was married for 3 years and knew my wife for 7 and I was ready to **** someone else almost instantly. (That sounds douchey, but she cheated on me twice and things had been bad for a while.. but that's another story).
After about 3 months I found out she was talking to another guy.. I was willing to forgive her and take a chance to make things work, but lo and behold 3 years later she did the same thing again.
Talking to another guy does not equal cheating. Do I miss something here?
 

mrgoodstuff

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The best way for him to be "primed" for red-pill is either his woman trashing him out, leaving him and doing her best to damage him. The alternative is some other male friends or associates taking his kindness for weakness and using this to seriously damage him.
 

Robert28

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The best way for him to be "primed" for red-pill is either his woman trashing him out, leaving him and doing her best to damage him. The alternative is some other male friends or associates taking his kindness for weakness and using this to seriously damage him.
Women are also bad about taking a guys kindness for his weakness. That’ll red pill a guy faster than anything. Once he realizes it.
 

mrgoodstuff

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Women are also bad about taking a guys kindness for his weakness. That’ll red pill a guy faster than anything. Once he realizes it.
How does a man do any "giving" or "sharing" or "being responsible" to those types without damaging himself?
 

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Robert28

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How does a man do any "giving" or "sharing" or "being responsible" to those types without damaging himself?
He can’t. Leeches will leech. They’ve had a lifetime to learn how to leech. It’s your job to decide how much you want leeched off of you once you figure out she’s a leech.
 

mrgoodstuff

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His gut will tell him is he’s losing his self respect or not. You can always tell when it’s 50/50 or at least 60/40. The damaging comes if he chooses to continue or decides to walk away once he’s determined that’s all he is to her.
Right. He might smoke weed or abuse alcohol when he gets that stress in the chest feeling from being "used"...
 

derby1

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J goes onto explain that this girl has had a "really difficult time getting over her ex of 5 years".
OP, allow me to clarify, most men have been indoctrinated since the age of 7 to be subservient to women, .

you trying to red pill him will backfire on YOU.

I have tried it many a times, and each time the man either

1.) Accused me of something.

2) listened, agreed, then went straight back into Captain save a ho.

forget helping him. These guys will die for a 2/10! believe me!
 

mrgoodstuff

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He can’t. Leeches will leech. They’ve had a lifetime to learn how to leech. It’s your job to decide how much you want leeched off of you once you figure out she’s a leech.
Maybe we have a poison the leech can remove... Like a real leech. LOL. I know. Leeches do damage or at least slow you down.
 

mrgoodstuff

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OP, allow me to clarify, most men have been indoctrinated since the age of 7 to be subservient to women, .

you trying to red pill him will backfire on YOU.

I have tried it many a times, and each time the man either

1.) Accused me of something.

2) listened, agreed, then went straight back into Captain save a ho.

forget helping him. These guys will die for a 2/10! believe me!
"die for"... were programmed to from near birth.
 
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