flowtheory
Master Don Juan
Do women often touch you guys on first dates? I’ve found I can touch, and they do not recoil, however seldomly do they touch or reach out to me.
"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"
She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.
You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.
She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.
The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.
Touching on first date.
- Thread starter flowtheory
- Start date
"I'm Not Looking for Anything Serious Right Now"
When a woman says it, guys hear a confession. A heads-up. A scheduling conflict.
Here's the translation: I don't feel anything. Right now. With you.
Watch what happens when a man triggers actual attraction. The busy career, the recent breakup, the "not in a place to date" — all of it evaporates instantly. The same woman who was guarding her freedom is suddenly free every night.
The "22 Rules" explain why. When the right switches flip, her timeline rearranges itself around you.
EyeBRollin
Master Don Juan
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It depends on the woman. I always advise against touching on the first date unless she initiates first.
flowtheory
Master Don Juan
How come?
EyeBRollin
Master Don Juan
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First dates are with total strangers. It's inappropriate to touch people you don't know. If you let her come to you the timing is always correct.
old_skoolr
Master Don Juan
I usually start kino with a high 5 or a fist bump.
It's usually when she's said something or done something I approve of.
It's usually when she's said something or done something I approve of.
"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"
You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.
And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.
Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.
The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.
Doctor Europeo
Moderator
We all know some girls will actually have sex on first date even if you just met.
But for the rest of them, I´ll grab her hand or arm when we are both laughing very hard. If she agrees to second date, I´ll put my arm around her waist.
But for the rest of them, I´ll grab her hand or arm when we are both laughing very hard. If she agrees to second date, I´ll put my arm around her waist.
EyeBRollin
Master Don Juan
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Touching has nothing to do with taking the lead.
devilkingx2
Master Don Juan
Depends entirely on the context.
If you are actually strangers who just met and barely know each other (OLD and you exchanged numbers and set a date in under an hour then went ghost til the day of), then probably hold off on touching until you receive a green light and things seem to be going very well (or she touches you first)
But in the far more likely scenario that you guys have talked and known each other for days/weeks beforehand (classmates, co-workers/social circle/etc. And anyone you interacted with a lot, like cashiers at your local supermarket) then of course you should start kinoing ASAP and work your way up slowly.
If she thinks of you as a total stranger and you didn't just meet, that's a horrible sign
If you are actually strangers who just met and barely know each other (OLD and you exchanged numbers and set a date in under an hour then went ghost til the day of), then probably hold off on touching until you receive a green light and things seem to be going very well (or she touches you first)
But in the far more likely scenario that you guys have talked and known each other for days/weeks beforehand (classmates, co-workers/social circle/etc. And anyone you interacted with a lot, like cashiers at your local supermarket) then of course you should start kinoing ASAP and work your way up slowly.
If she thinks of you as a total stranger and you didn't just meet, that's a horrible sign