Thoughts on "early" drink dates?

[BPH]

it’s not. I told you

believe me i’ve been there. it’s frustrating as fvck. but it don’t go to do with interest.

that don’t got nothing to do with this girl. i mentioned in my response to solomon that i have chicks that won’t show up to my place until 2am. that don’t mean these girls are more high interest than a girl who thinks past 10pm is late. now AFTER you’ve fvcked them (especially a couple times) is when you’ll see more flexibility and will be able to get them out at times you weren’t beforehand. got to get that first one in tho.

I agree with you generally, but in this case, I felt there was a lack of interest, and I was right.

Yes, she was interested enough to match with me multiple times until we could go on a date. That's a positive.

No, she wouldn't stay out past her pre-established curfew, and also wouldn't kiss on the first date. That's a negative.

I think that is a greater negative than the positive.

I hate using celebrity examples because I don't expect to get treated the same as some famous millionaire, but if Henry Cavill asked her out and could only do it at 10PM, she wouldn't have declined because of some yoga class in the morning. She also wouldn't have rejected a kiss from him if he went for it - as a matter of fact, I'd expect her to push harder for the lay than he would.

If she wanted to, she would, which boils down to interest. This girl wasn't interested enough; I felt that, but went along with it anyway. My intuition was correct.

 

[Velasco]

So yeah just continue doing what has worked for YOU. Maintain your frame as you guys call it. 10:00 pm, she knows what's up and will either agree or not.

If not you just saved yourself time, effort and money. Her as well!

that’s restricting ur options to only those willing to meet a guy they just met at 10pm. the underlying frame in their heads is this guy views u as a late night hookup. so there’s too much friction to agree to that. and why the best time is 7pm. because they can tell their hamster in their brain that they’re just going to get drinks/food with this guy” and then when they end up sleeping w you after that “it just happened”

I'm not saying the blame is on her for ghosting me. I'm saying that part in particular is ironic, because she was complaining to me about guys having ghosted her after what she thought was a good date, and said she prefers open and honest communication, and will tell someone if she doesn't think there's a connection.

The fact that she isn't capable of doing the very thing she claims to dislike about others probably plays a role in why she's still single. If she doesn't like me, she could've told me, and I'd make other plans, simple as that

brother your going to continue getting frustrated if you keep treating women the same as men. ofc she ain’t gonna do all that sh1t lolll

 

[Velasco]

No, she wouldn't stay out past her pre-established curfew, and also wouldn't kiss on the first date. That's a negative.

that’s not a negative. that’s her doing exactly what she told you what she was going to do. because you weren’t able to manipulate her to ignore what she already told you, does not mean she’s not interested in you. and the no kiss rule is very likely a rule she gave herself to protect herself from all the other times she did makeout with someone she was attracted to, that ended up hurting her (she did say she did engage in casual sex when she was younger quite a bit) she’s just trying to learn from her mistakes. again doesn’t mean she’s not interested in you. “oh yeah but all these girls made out with me no problem! so those girls were actually high interest!” no bro.

 

[BPH]

that’s restricting ur options to only those willing to meet a guy they just met at 10pm.

It's not about 10PM. It's about being agreeable, following the man's lead, and being open to the possibility we end the night together. I've done it so many times. Sometimes it's 9PM. Sometimes it IS 8PM. The point is she had a cutoff after 2 hours, so she was trying to squeeze me in - which is precisely what I was trying to avoid by scheduling the date for Saturday night, when she wouldn't have work before, after, or the next morning.

so there’s too much friction to agree to that.

There's too much friction FOR HER. There have been plenty of others where it wasn't too much. I picked up on that, and should've adjusted accordingly.

brother your going to continue getting frustrated if you keep treating women the same as men.

I'm not frustrated at all with her. I saw the writing on the wall and made the mistake anyway because I thought I might be acting unreasonably, or too rigidly. I'm frustrated because I knew better.

again doesn’t mean she’s not interested in you.

The ghosting over the past 2 days would imply that.

The date went as well as it could've gone within the constraints she had in place. She thanked me for the night and told me she had a good time.

I am not judging her lack of interest based on what she SAID. I'm basing it on what actually HAPPENED here.

As I said, I knew better, but went anyway. I'll think back to this the next time I have doubts about whether I'd be wasting my time - I kinda already did when it came to the girl who invited me out Wednesday night.

 

[Sega Genesis]

the underlying frame in their heads is this guy views u as a late night hookup.

^^Yeah ok which is what many women on these apps want too... so what's the problem?

I just posted about my gf who is one of these women. Again she's told me she knows prior to even meeting a man whether or not she wants or is open to hooking up with him..

The time of meeting is irrelevant. She is a busy attorney and often times can't meet until after 9:00 pm anyway.

It did take me awhile to wrap my brain around this because it's happened to me a few times and I did feel badly (my issue).... but imo a woman who is solid within herself is NOT gonna feel.like a wh0re or a hoe because a man asked directly or more subtly if she wants or is open to hooking up.

Again in many cases it's what she wants too!

Just look at BPH's history and how many ONS he has had often times initiated by the woman!

The notion of plausible deniability is real albeit a bit delusional. I think @tksniper mentioned this but people are having sex every six seconds and women are wanting it too just as much and as often as men.

So why not everyone be real about it and not hide behind things like plausible deniability and pretending you want to "date" when what you really want is to hook up?

 

[Velasco]

The point is she had a cutoff after 2 hours, so she was trying to squeeze me in -

yeah bro as soon as i read she’s in bed by 10pm. it triggered me ab that chick i told u would already be fallen asleep every time id try to arrange a meetup after i left work at 10pm. so i would pull the offer back (the way i suggested) and then arrange a meetup at an optimal time frame.

i told u not to go but there were too many people telling u to go anyway bc hey you never know. when actually you did already know lol.

There's too much friction FOR HER. There have been plenty of others where it wasn't too much. I picked up on that, and should've adjusted accordingly

correct. can’t be fitting girls into one box. if she does this it means she’s interested. if she does this it means she’s not interested. i’ve been wrong so many times ab what i assumed was interested and assumed meant she wasn’t interested. that ive forced myself to keep an open mind. and reject this black and white thinking ab interest.

I'll think back to this the next time I have doubts about whether I'd be wasting my time

good. then again i’ve laid girls that ghosted me 4+ times before we eventually meet and banged lol. ignorance is bliss.

try and hit this chick up next week with a “?” kids these days give up way too soon

 

[BPH]

yeah bro as soon as i read she’s in bed by 10pm. it triggered me ab that chick i told u would already be fallen asleep every time id try to arrange a meetup after i left work at 10pm. so i would pull the offer back (the way i suggested) and then arrange a meetup at an optimal time frame.

i told u not to go but there were too many people telling u to go anyway bc hey you never know. when actually you did already know lol.

correct. can’t be fitting girls into one box. if she does this it means she’s interested. if she does this it means she’s not interested. i’ve been wrong so many times ab what i assumed was interested and assumed meant she wasn’t interested. that ive forced myself to keep an open mind. and reject this black and white thinking ab interest.

good. then again i’ve laid girls that ghosted me 4+ times before we eventually meet and banged lol. ignorance is bliss.

try and hit this chick up next week with a “?” kids these days give up way too soon

I agree with pretty much everything you said here.

I saw your reply about moving the time after the fact, because at that point I was already near the end of that date.

I don't have to burn the bridge; she's just gonna be on the back burner while I continue pursuing the girl from Monday, and potentially this other girl tomorrow.

 

[Velasco]

^^Yeah ok which is what many women on these apps want too... so what's the problem?

i’m not on apps i wouldn’t know

She is a busy attorney and often times can't meet until after 9:00 pm anyway.

yes that’s her. similar to my old schedule where i couldn’t get out of work until 10pm. it created a lot of friction with girls i’d meet asking them to meet me at 10pm because of the underlying frame. even tho it’s just the soonest time i could meet them. girls don’t have that issues bc guys don’t have anti slut defenses with meeting a chick past 9pm. they’d in fact be more eager to bc they see green lights to hookup.

Just look at BPH's history and how many ONS he has had often times initiated by the woman!

i know his history. which is why i know im the few guys he’ll listen to because everything he’s going thru, i already went thru years ago. still learning tho.

So why not everyone be real about it and not hide behind things.like plausible deniability and pretending you want to "date" when what you really want is to hook up?

one of the first player guys i became friends with in the community told me about this girl that would not hookup with anybody she was not in love with. now he had zero intentions of ever dating this girl. he just wanted to smash and then move on to another girl. why not be real with her and tell her he only wanted to hookup with her? what’d she’d say? no sorry i “blah blah blah love”. what did he do? he lied and told her he was in love with her. and then she slept with him. then he ghosted her. most girls (even tho there are some 100% ok with being a side hoe). do not want to be seen as a hookup/sneaky link. they want the girlfriend experience. they want to feel like they’re the only one that gets your love and appreciation. the “date” functions as a frame where they feel it’s heading in that direction. and therefore allow themselves to relax. and become susceptible to hooking up. only because in their minds, this guy doesn’t view them as just another hookup.

 

[Sega Genesis]

I'm a woman @Velasco and quite familiar with how many women think and feel about a man being sexually direct and everything else. I have encountered it many times myself and as I said I did feel badly at first until I learned to appreciate (and actually respect) his directness as it saved ME time and effort and possibly becoming emotionally attached to a man who didn't want what I wanted and vice versa.

I am 100% against how your player friend handled things with that woman. It was manipulative and deceptive but hey he got what HE wanted, f*ck how SHE must've felt afterwards being pumped and dumped after getting the "girlfriend experience" for two minutes.

Whatever. To each their own.

I am not on the apps either, I am very happily in a relationship however I am observant of what is happening on the apps and off and how many women not only enjoy but will initiate casual sex, hook ups and ONS.

That's where I'm coming from here, what I have observed and what my friend who IS on the apps has shared with me as well.

 

[Plinco]

lol OP this thread is four pages long and you don't have clarity yet!!!!