Thinking you'll probably get rejected vs thinking you'll definitely get rejected

[corrector]

@GoodMan32 is lucky to even have a job given the state of the current economy.

However, his parents are heavily subsidizing his lifestyle by covering rent and other cost of living to enable him to have other indulgences with his money to avoid being a total incel. If he had poorer parents or no parents he would be screwed with his current job to the point it would not mean anything to him apart from bare survival. You can't afford escorts if you have real life expenses in a lower than average wage salary. I have poor parents myself so I'm like a total incel even though I have a job.

 

[SW15]

his parents are heavily subsidizing his lifestyle by covering rent and other cost of living to enable him to have other indulgences with his money to avoid being a total incel.

He is a Millennial and it's common for Millennials in their 30s and early 40s to receive some level of parental subsidization from their more fortunate Boomer or early Gen X parents.

His parents covering rent makes him look like he has more money than he actually does. However, most women do not ever get to see where he lives.

His parents' money has helped him rise to the level of borderline incel instead of being a full incel with occasional sex in his past.

 

[BaronOfHair]

@GoodMan32 is lucky to even have a job given the state of the current economy.

The economy to him is what John Hopkins's standards for admission are to Theo Von...
Less of a deterrent than the way he thinks

 

[GoodMan32]

@GoodMan32 this^^ is a really crappy mindset and in all likelihood the energy you're projecting as well.

As such, it's no wonder you continue getting rejected, women can smell that negativity from a mile away!

I would suggest you begin finding ways to become more posititve, it's a 'mind over matter' type of thing.

And learn resilience. Once you become resilient, you won't worry about getting rejected, you know you'll be fine and there's another woman right around the corner!

Even taking my negativity out of the equation, it's been said before on the forum that a man with everything I have working against me could have to sift through thousands of rejections before finally finding a woman.

Telling myself there's a woman right around the corner who will accept my advances would be lying to myself.

I agree rejection would be no big deal if there really were a woman right around the corner who'd accept my advances. I've said before: The individual rejection isn't the problem. Rejection galore is the problem.

Yeah. Back in the PUA days, it was not uncommon for a guy to “open a set” and then “eject” prematurely because he felt like it wasn’t going anywhere (ie it was a soft rejection). So the guy walks away. Then the girl(s) who were actually interested say to his buddy/wingman “What happened to your friend? Why did he walk away?”

All the more reason the woman should make the move. Then the problem you described (of the guy abandoning his set because he wasn't aware she's into him) wouldn't happen.

You don't say?!! I trust you're beginning to notice the parallels between that conundrum and you're social difficulties more generally

Autists tend to be terrible communicators. That's the core explanation of why I'm bad at interviewing and seduction.

You can see that by my profile picture, which was AI generated.

I take it the guy in your profile picture is supposed to be you. If so, your looks are much better than your written descriptions have made it sound.

@GoodMan32 is lucky to even have a job given the state of the current economy.

White collar work has been in a recession since 2023. Companies have been laying off for the last 2 years and most people who have been layoff victims during the last 2 years have struggled to find new employment. For laid off employees, it is now taking 6+ months to find a job and most are getting new employment at a salary cut.

Job interviews are a stressful situation for anyone. There are some parallels between job interviews and early stage seduction. I don't think there's enough similarity to make a good comparison. There are plenty of people who are good at doing jobs in a given field who perform at below average levels in interviews. The majority of those cases are neurotypical people too.

If @GoodMan32 were unemployed, it would lower his SMV even further.

@GoodMan32 having been with the same employer for 6.5 years is an unusual circumstance in the modern economy. That situation would be difficult to duplicate in another company and likely difficult to duplicate a different industry. In most companies/industries/job functions, a more typical duration of employment with one employer is something like 2-3 years.

You're right, there are parallels between job interviews and seduction. Both cases are similar in the sense that the other party is looking for a reason to disqualify you. It's no surprise to hear even neurotypicals are often bad interviewers. Those circumstances (where the other party is looking for a reason to disqualify you) can make it hard to perform.

But just like I tend to excel at the job once I make it past the interview, there have probably been cases in the past where a girl/woman who turned me down would have enjoyed being with me had they let me make it past the interview (so to speak)

I've seen many coworkers come and go through the years, a majority of departures being the coworker's choice. While it is true firings and layoffs can happen, a lot of workers simply end up wanting something else (higher pay, different line of work, different corporate culture, etc)

As long as it is a learning opportunity then its all good.

I know you had said yesterday that rejection isn't my core problem. My core problem is the risk of having to potentially cross paths with a rejecter (therefore I'm only willing to shoot my shot with a woman I'm highly unlikely to ever cross paths with again)

I'm going to address the learning opportunity thing. Even though (as I've said before on the forum) I have no idea what exactly I did "wrong" for the vast majority of my mishaps with the opposite sex, it just so happens I was lucky enough to be given an explanation when an attendee at the last organized singles event turned down my offer for a mini-date after the event.

The attendee told me she's only declining my offer because we had just met, not because there was anything "wrong" with me.

Taking her feedback, it would appear the obvious solution is to ask out a woman I know (rather than a woman I just met 5 minutes ago)...but then we circle back to the problem where: If I ask out a woman I know, I'd then have to cross paths with her in the event of a rejection.

It's a real catch 22: I'm so afraid of getting turned down by a woman who knows me, I only shoot my shot with strangers, who then really do reject me (because they don't know me)

[For that matter, if a woman is unwilling to accept a mini-date with a guy who just met her at an organized singles event, how idiotic of her to attend an organized singles event in the first place. That's like going to a go kart track when you know you're afraid to drive a go kart]

 

[GoodMan32]

However, his parents are heavily subsidizing his lifestyle by covering rent and other cost of living to enable him to have other indulgences with his money to avoid being a total incel. If he had poorer parents or no parents he would be screwed with his current job to the point it would not mean anything to him apart from bare survival. You can't afford escorts if you have real life expenses in a lower than average wage salary. I have poor parents myself so I'm like a total incel even though I have a job.

If I had poor parents/no parents, I'd either be homeless, dead, or still living at home.

He is a Millennial and it's common for Millennials in their 30s and early 40s to receive some level of parental subsidization from their more fortunate Boomer or early Gen X parents.

His parents covering rent makes him look like he has more money than he actually does. However, most women do not ever get to see where he lives.

His parents' money has helped him rise to the level of borderline incel instead of being a full incel with occasional sex in his past.

While it is true a woman I meet through work, on public transportation, in public in general, etc generally isn't going to know where I live, a sizable chunk of the gals I meet know where I live. Female neighbors obviously know where I live, as do female employees who work in my condo building in any capacity. Additionally, with how closeby the organized singles events are, I can namedrop the building I live in as an attempt to earn brownie points with the woman (even though I've had limited luck with that strategy)

For a man with as little of a social life as I have, when you add up female neighbors, female employees in my condo building, and female attendees at organized singles events, these 3 categories combined make up a high percentage of my female contacts.

 

[GoodMan32]

The economy to him is what John Hopkins's standards for admission are to Theo Von...
Less of a deterrent than the way he thinks

With all due respect, you've contradicted yourself as of late.

You've said many times before on the forum that hardly any older woman wants to be with a guy my age.

Yet then yesterday, you said there are lots of fat Plain Janes in their 50s who would love to be with me.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Yet then yesterday, you said there are lots of fat Plain Janes in their 50s who would love to be with me.

There may be


"Autists tend to be terrible communicators. That's the core explanation of why I'm bad at interviewing and seduction"

I got news for you, hoss: That doesn't come naturally to MOST people... Everyone's difficulties just vary. We're all constantly learning, recognizing that many of "our truths" are more complex than previously believed, and falling on our asses then getting back up again. You're really not that special

And rejection isn't your core problem, it's true... Concocting rationalizations to not put yourself out there on a regular, preferably daily basis, is doing you fewer favors than a steady diet of Red Bull and Meth did for Lindsay Lohan's f-c-ability

 

[SW15]

You're right, there are parallels between job interviews and seduction. Both cases are similar in the sense that the other party is looking for a reason to disqualify you. It's no surprise to hear even neurotypicals are often bad interviewers. Those circumstances (where the other party is looking for a reason to disqualify you) can make it hard to perform.

Most job interviews are arranged by a person replying to a job post online. The typical job searcher is replying to job posts on job boards.

First interviews are often a function of an HR Manager/Director/Associate looking to disqualify someone. A person working in HR has no power to hire but has power to disqualify. There isn't an obvious dating scenario that parallels the HR level job interview.

In mating, when a male is on a first date, he's already talking to the hiring manager for the boyfriend/sex partner role. There's no HR intermediary.

When a job candidate is interviewing with a hiring manager for that specific role, that person has both the power to hire and the power to disqualify.

I can namedrop the building I live in as an attempt to earn brownie points with the woman (even though I've had limited luck with that strategy)

Namedropping a residential building is not a effective seduction tactic for many reasons.

1. Remember how seduction is looks, money, status, and personality? In general, looks matter more than money/status. Namedropping a residential building is a money/status play.

2. Most residential buildings don't have strong brand awareness and the associated positive brand beliefs with that awareness. Most women won't know the reputation of X residential building when it is mentioned to them. They would have to do some internet searching to find out about that building. They aren't going to bother doing that internet search unless they are already somewhat attracted to a man.

3. It is possible that a residential building is known within a specific neighborhood and a few specific bars/non-bar venues near that building. Most guys can't do enough approaches at venues near where that building might have brand awareness and might get a status boost from that.

My core problem is the risk of having to potentially cross paths with a rejecter (therefore I'm only willing to shoot my shot with a woman I'm highly unlikely to ever cross paths with again)

In a big city mating environment, most men aren't crossing paths with rejecting females after the rejection. You make this into a way bigger deal than it is in reality. While it happens, it isn't a common occurrence for the typical male. Additionally, since females reject so many men, they'll often forget about rejecting one specific man.

If a man approaches women in the gym he regularly attends, then he is likely to encounter her after a date offer is rejected. That's not the bigger problem with gym approaching anyway. A bigger problem with gym approaching happens later in an interaction. It's far more uncomfortable for a male and female to interact under the following circumstances...

1. after 1-2 sexless dates + a ghosting/flaking
2. after 1-2 instances of sex when one person wanted something more.
3. after an extended relationship of 6+ months ends

In scenario #3, it leads to either the male or the female changing gyms. Scenario #2 can lead to gym changing too.

In big cities, excluding gyms, it's uncommon to see anyone randomly that you know. It's unlikely to see the same woman repeatedly at a bar, grocery store, a park, or the mall.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Most job interviews are arranged by a person replying to a job post online. The typical job searcher is replying to job posts on job boards

And most job seekers either fail or end up settling for table scraps, just as most folks end up with sh-t-y mates. That's what happens when one doesn't devote an immense amount of energy towards networking, maintains a mindset which goes something like:

-"I want a gig that'll pay just enough to live"/"I just want a serviceable f-ck"

-"I'll be grateful if they find my resume agreeable/I'll be delighted if she thinks I'm kinda cute"


Rather than

-"I'm building a career"/"I'm creating a rich, vibrant life"

-"(Insert corporation)would be blessed to have me on their side/"She'll be lucky to have me in her life"

 

[SW15]

most job seekers either fail or end up settling for table scraps, just as most folks end up with sh-t-y mates. That's what happens when one doesn't devote an immense amount of energy towards networking, maintains a mindset which goes something like:

There's a lot of truth to this.

Most job seekers who get jobs from replying to online ads end up working for subpar organizations. When working for these subpar organizations, they are dealing with low quality people in upper management who also have mediocre to subpar business skills. This often results in a poor working experience for the employee, dealing with some loathsome human beings in middle to upper management who have no qualms about laying them off with zero warning at any moment due to the USA's right to work laws.

Most men who find dates/relationships from swipe apps and approaching strangers end up with lousy mates. These are women with low quality personality traits who will treat them poorly and often dump them in the worst way possible, similar to the ungrateful, scumbag corporate managers in the toxic companies that I described above.

 

[GoodMan32]

Most job interviews are arranged by a person replying to a job post online. The typical job searcher is replying to job posts on job boards.

First interviews are often a function of an HR Manager/Director/Associate looking to disqualify someone. A person working in HR has no power to hire but has power to disqualify. There isn't an obvious dating scenario that parallels the HR level job interview.

In mating, when a male is on a first date, he's already talking to the hiring manager for the boyfriend/sex partner role. There's no HR intermediary.

When a job candidate is interviewing with a hiring manager for that specific role, that person has both the power to hire and the power to disqualify.



Namedropping a residential building is not a effective seduction tactic for many reasons.

1. Remember how seduction is looks, money, status, and personality? In general, looks matter more than money/status. Namedropping a residential building is a money/status play.

2. Most residential buildings don't have strong brand awareness and the associated positive brand beliefs with that awareness. Most women won't know the reputation of X residential building when it is mentioned to them. They would have to do some internet searching to find out about that building. They aren't going to bother doing that internet search unless they are already somewhat attracted to a man.

3. It is possible that a residential building is known within a specific neighborhood and a few specific bars/non-bar venues near that building. Most guys can't do enough approaches at venues near where that building might have brand awareness and might get a status boost from that.



In a big city mating environment, most men aren't crossing paths with rejecting females after the rejection. You make this into a way bigger deal than it is in reality. While it happens, it isn't a common occurrence for the typical male. Additionally, since females reject so many men, they'll often forget about rejecting one specific man.

If a man approaches women in the gym he regularly attends, then he is likely to encounter her after a date offer is rejected. That's not the bigger problem with gym approaching anyway. A bigger problem with gym approaching happens later in an interaction. It's far more uncomfortable for a male and female to interact under the following circumstances...

1. after 1-2 sexless dates + a ghosting/flaking
2. after 1-2 instances of sex when one person wanted something more.
3. after an extended relationship of 6+ months ends

In scenario #3, it leads to either the male or the female changing gyms. Scenario #2 can lead to gym changing too.

In big cities, excluding gyms, it's uncommon to see anyone randomly that you know. It's unlikely to see the same woman repeatedly at a bar, grocery store, a park, or the mall.

Even if looks are the main factor of attraction (not money/status), that's all the more reason I shouldn't struggle as much as I do. The fact AI gave me a hot girlfriend proves I have good looks.

I'm aware I'm unlikely to cross paths with a cold approach rejecter ever again. As I said on a different thread (not started by me) this morning, the fear of rejection doesn't hold me back at all with cold approaches. Fear of being viewed as creepy is what holds me back from cold-approaching in public.

When I say I don't want to take a possible rejection from a woman I need to cross paths with again, I'm talking about neighbors, coworkers (or employees from other workplaces in my office building), employees at businesses I frequent, etc.

 

[SW15]

The fact AI gave me a hot girlfriend proves I have good looks.

Wheat Waffles rated you as a 4/10, below average looking. Additionally, you are judging AI based on one of its weaker points. AI is worse in terms of generative functions than scanning existing text data on the internet.

What you got from AI is 100% worthless based on the capabilities of AI in 2025.

Your own perception of your looks is not based in reality. Wheat Waffles' rating of your looks is closer to the reality of how women rate your looks.

When I say I don't want to take a possible rejection from a woman I need to cross paths with again, I'm talking about neighbors, coworkers (or employees from other workplaces in my office building), employees at businesses I frequent, etc.

Trying to seduce neighbors is the kind of thing that a man with a blue pill ideology and scarcity mentality does. It reeks of being a beta male. Don't crap in your own backyard.

I don't recommend men use their apartment complexes or condo complexes for finding dates. That's the definition of crapping where you eat. It might be possible in some larger complexes (200+ units) but it's still improbable and still not the best idea.

In larger apartment communities (I would call that 200+ units), a man might be able to justify dating someone in the complex under one of 2 scenarios.

• If you are in a mid-rise or high rise building (4+ stories), the woman lives on a different floor as you do, and you're not likely to ever go to that floor. It's still possible you might run into her in common areas, but some men are comfortable with that risk level, especially if he's only seeing her 1-2 times a month at best.
• If he's are in a complex of garden style buildings (multiple 1-3 story buildings), the woman lives a few buildings away and he's not likely to see her walking to/from your car. Like the last scenario, it's still possible to see her in common areas but the risk is mitigated if her building is not nearby.

Trying to get with co-workers as a white collar employee is a really bad idea for so many reasons. That also scream scarcity mentality and beta male. Men with lower wage service sector jobs (McJobs) can try to date co-workers and will have few consequences for doing it, but it's not recommended for white collar people.

There's a great thread on this forum about why hitting on female employees while they are doing their jobs is a bad idea.

Successfully Approaching Women at Work (General Public Workers)

The idea of approaching women while they are at their jobs containing interaction with the general public is a topic that is somewhat contentious among men. When I think of women who work with the general public, these are the categories that come to mind of women to approach. Strippers...

www.sosuave.net

Hitting on employees from other workplaces in the same office building is worth doing. HR at your company can't stop you from doing that. Since it is one's own office building, there needs to be some social skill and tact when doing these approaches.

 

[GoodMan32]

Wheat Waffles rated you as a 4/10, below average looking. Additionally, you are judging AI based on one of its weaker points. AI is worse in terms of generative functions than scanning existing text data on the internet.

What you got from AI is 100% worthless based on the capabilities of AI in 2025.

Your own perception of your looks is not based in reality. Wheat Waffles' rating of your looks is closer to the reality of how women rate your looks.



Trying to seduce neighbors is the kind of thing that a man with a blue pill ideology and scarcity mentality does. It reeks of being a beta male. Don't crap in your own backyard.

I don't recommend men use their apartment complexes or condo complexes for finding dates. That's the definition of crapping where you eat. It might be possible in some larger complexes (200+ units) but it's still improbable and still not the best idea.

In larger apartment communities (I would call that 200+ units), a man might be able to justify dating someone in the complex under one of 2 scenarios.

• If you are in a mid-rise or high rise building (4+ stories), the woman lives on a different floor as you do, and you're not likely to ever go to that floor. It's still possible you might run into her in common areas, but some men are comfortable with that risk level, especially if he's only seeing her 1-2 times a month at best.
• If he's are in a complex of garden style buildings (multiple 1-3 story buildings), the woman lives a few buildings away and he's not likely to see her walking to/from your car. Like the last scenario, it's still possible to see her in common areas but the risk is mitigated if her building is not nearby.

Trying to get with co-workers as a white collar employee is a really bad idea for so many reasons. That also scream scarcity mentality and beta male. Men with lower wage service sector jobs (McJobs) can try to date co-workers and will have few consequences for doing it, but it's not recommended for white collar people.

There's a great thread on this forum about why hitting on female employees while they are doing their jobs is a bad idea.

Successfully Approaching Women at Work (General Public Workers)

The idea of approaching women while they are at their jobs containing interaction with the general public is a topic that is somewhat contentious among men. When I think of women who work with the general public, these are the categories that come to mind of women to approach. Strippers...

www.sosuave.net

Hitting on employees from other workplaces in the same office building is worth doing. HR at your company can't stop you from doing that. Since it is one's own office building, there needs to be some social skill and tact when doing these approaches.

It's been said many times online (both on this forum and elsewhere) that in the era of female abundance, any man below 8 and a half on the looks scale is basically invisible to the typical woman. In which case, being a 4 really isn't a whole lot different than being a 6-7. Either way, you fall short of the 8 and a half cutoff.

In other words, my track record doesn't prove me a 4. All it proves is I'm below 8 and a half.

There's also the variable of how I have other factors holding me back (which have nothing to do with looks). The fact my autism, mental illness, low income, and lack of a car would cause many a woman to bump down my overall SMV score doesn't change the fact I'm a 6-7 on looks alone.

I fully agree viewing neighbors or coworkers as potential partners is something a beta male with a scarcity mentality would do. I admit I'm a beta male with a scarcity mentality.

With hardly any social life (and with the risk of coming across as creepy holding me back from cold-approaching strangers), neighbors and coworkers are really some of my only options (my counselor recommends asking out coworkers by the way)

On the topic of employees from other workplaces in my office building, it's really something how I have no problem flirting with a married woman from a different office, yet asking out a single woman who's given me IOIs gives me crippling levels of nervousness.

 

[Mike32ct]

In terms of rejection, I’m not a fan of “You have nothing to lose.”

I think a similar but much better way to think of is “I came into this bar/restaurant/insert-fav-venue with nothing. It’s ok if I walk out with nothing.”

You really only lost some time and money, but if you go to places you legit enjoy, even that “loss” is mitigated.

 

[SW15]

With hardly any social life (and with the risk of coming across as creepy holding me back from cold-approaching strangers),

You would need to fix that. That's a difficult proposition to fix at age stage of life, but especially at age 30+.

Neurotypical, childless men 30+ often have a difficult time to finding other 30+ childless men for friendships.

Having friends isn't the same as having a social life.

neighbors and coworkers are really some of my only options

If that's the case, any man in that scenario is better off learning how to approach strangers or take the time to build a properly functioning social life.

The problem with building a social circle is that it often takes YEARS to do if starting from scratch. Sometimes, it is a very unlikely endeavor. Most men have more urgent sexual needs than the time it would take to build a properly functioning social circle for him, meaning one capable of introducing him to single women.

my counselor recommends asking out coworkers by the way

Has your counselor ever worked a job in which she had numerous male co-workers? Many counselors are independent practitioners with limited staffs. Additionally, a lot of psychotherapy has moved to a virtual setting in the last 10-15 years. Psychotherapists have less experience now with working in more traditional white collar work spaces.

Below is an article about how psychotherapy is moving mostly virtual. More than half of all therapy sessions now take place online or over the telephone, according to a 2024 USA Today article.

Americans are getting more therapy than ever -- and spending more. Here's why.

Together, the pandemic and Zoom have seeded an online therapy boom. Therapists say they have never been busier.

www.usatoday.com

 

[GoodMan32]

In terms of rejection, I’m not a fan of “You have nothing to lose.”

I think a similar but much better way to think of is “I came into this bar/restaurant/insert-fav-venue with nothing. It’s ok if I walk out with nothing.”

You really only lost some time and money, but if you go to places you legit enjoy, even that “loss” is mitigated.

I have a ton to lose from asking out a woman I genuinely thought was into me (and will need to cross paths with again post-rejection)

You would need to fix that. That's a difficult proposition to fix at age stage of life, but especially at age 30+.

Neurotypical, childless men 30+ often have a difficult time to finding other 30+ childless men for friendships.

Having friends isn't the same as having a social life.



If that's the case, any man in that scenario is better off learning how to approach strangers or take the time to build a properly functioning social life.

The problem with building a social circle is that it often takes YEARS to do if starting from scratch. Sometimes, it is a very unlikely endeavor. Most men have more urgent sexual needs than the time it would take to build a properly functioning social circle for him, meaning one capable of introducing him to single women.



Has your counselor ever worked a job in which she had numerous male co-workers? Many counselors are independent practitioners with limited staffs. Additionally, a lot of psychotherapy has moved to a virtual setting in the last 10-15 years. Psychotherapists have less experience now with working in more traditional white collar work spaces.

Below is an article about how psychotherapy is moving mostly virtual. More than half of all therapy sessions now take place online or over the telephone, according to a 2024 USA Today article.

Americans are getting more therapy than ever -- and spending more. Here's why.

Together, the pandemic and Zoom have seeded an online therapy boom. Therapists say they have never been busier.

www.usatoday.com

In addition to the risk of coming across as creepy, I just thought of another hurdle I might run into if I were to cold-approach strangers.

With the age bracket I prefer (approximately 45-65), many a woman in that age bracket (especially the ones who are fat, plain, and/or in the older half of that age bracket) might think I'm joking about being into her (in other words, they might think they're getting pranked)

As for my counselor, I have no idea what the gender makeup is of her current coworkers. I go on Saturday (when she's the only counselor there), nor do I know what the gender makeup has been at her past jobs.

You're right, counseling has largely moved to virtual (a setting I don't like).

I suppose I should elaborate on why my counselor recommends asking out coworkers. There have been multiple coworkers through the years where I found out through the grapevine they were into me, as well as coworkers who gave IOIs. My counselor said even though asking out a coworker isn't ideal, it might be my best bet to find a partner.

 

[SW15]

With the age bracket I prefer (approximately 45-65), many a woman in that age bracket (especially the ones who are fat, plain, and/or in the older half of that age bracket) might think I'm joking about being into her (in other words, they might think they're getting pranked)

That would be a massive problem. Most 45-65 year old women are not going to be interested in substantially younger men or respond positively in any way to an approach from a younger man. A small percentage of older women might have sex with a younger men just based on his physique. The guys who would get this sex would have a fit/muscular physique.

A dating coach (male or female) would tell you to bring down your age target. Some dating coaches would refuse to work with you unless you brought down your age target. Since you are 34, a dating coach would tell you to target 25-34 year old women.

Your fascination with 45-65 year old women is psychologically abnormal. The extent of your pregnancy phobia is also psychologically abnormal. If your counselor is not actively trying to fix those psychological abnormalities right now or has a plan to address these topics in future sessions, your counselor is wasting your time and also wasting hers.

I suppose I should elaborate on why my counselor recommends asking out coworkers. There have been multiple coworkers through the years where I found out through the grapevine they were into me, as well as coworkers who gave IOIs. My counselor said even though asking out a coworker isn't ideal, it might be my best bet to find a partner.

If a co-worker gives very strong IOIs, then it is worth considering. I still wouldn't do it. Most men aren't going to get strong IOIs from co-workers.

I am fortunate that I haven't had any co-workers that I've wanted to date in my white collar work experience.

It is well known not to date co-workers in jobs where you plan to stay for a long. It's acceptable to date co-workers in short term jobs, like working in a retail store in a non-management position or working in a restaurant. Job tenures there are usually measured in months.

 

[GoodMan32]

That would be a massive problem. Most 45-65 year old women are not going to be interested in substantially younger men or respond positively in any way to an approach from a younger man. A small percentage of older women might have sex with a younger men just based on his physique. The guys who would get this sex would have a fit/muscular physique.

A dating coach (male or female) would tell you to bring down your age target. Some dating coaches would refuse to work with you unless you brought down your age target. Since you are 34, a dating coach would tell you to target 25-34 year old women.

Your fascination with 45-65 year old women is psychologically abnormal. The extent of your pregnancy phobia is also psychologically abnormal. If your counselor is not actively trying to fix those psychological abnormalities right now or has a plan to address these topics in future sessions, your counselor is wasting your time and also wasting hers.



If a co-worker gives very strong IOIs, then it is worth considering. I still wouldn't do it. Most men aren't going to get strong IOIs from co-workers.

I am fortunate that I haven't had any co-workers that I've wanted to date in my white collar work experience.

It is well known not to date co-workers in jobs where you plan to stay for a long. It's acceptable to date co-workers in short term jobs, like working in a retail store in a non-management position or working in a restaurant. Job tenures there are usually measured in months.

My counselor said it's possible there have been some older ones who were into me, yet never even bothered giving me IOIs because they thought there was no way a man my age would go for such a big age gap.

As for my counselor's thoughts on whether I should revise my age preference, her comments have been a mixed bag. She's said one surefire way to ensure I don't impregnate anyone is to get with a woman too old for pregnancy. Yet she's also said there are things that can be done about the pregnancy risk with a younger woman.

I suppose one workaround (to the age gap hurdle) is to target the absolute youngest end of my 45-65 age preference. This is one area where my premature wrinkles could help me. In my opinion, I could pass for 40 with my premature wrinkles. If a 45-46 year old woman thinks I'm 40 at first glance, they might not automatically write me off based on age (whereas a 55-65 year old woman is likely to automatically write me off based on age even with being able to fudge 40, as that's still a massive age gap)

For that matter, based on first glance alone, I might even have a better chance with the typical 45 year old woman than the typical 25 year old woman (because of my premature wrinkles)

As for the job thing, I refuse to ask out a coworker, even if my counselor thinks I should (not because I don't want to date a coworker though). Even when I worked in a store, I refused to act on it when I found out through the grapevine a female coworker was into me. While it's true that a lot of retail employees have a tenure that's measured in months, I stayed with that company for 4 years.

Lastly, on the general topic of my desirability to the opposite sex, I remember posting an outfit picture on a thread this past winter where I was told I dressed like a 70 year old grandpa. My outfit today isn't as much of a grandpa outfit. Here it is (I blacked out the belt buckle to avoid potentially identifying myself):

 

[BaronOfHair]

In terms of rejection, I’m not a fan of “You have nothing to lose.”

I think a similar but much better way to think of is “I came into this bar/restaurant/insert-fav-venue with nothing. It’s ok if I walk out with nothing.”

You really only lost some time and money, but if you go to places you legit enjoy, even that “loss” is mitigated.

At this point, GM isn't "losing" anything by approaching... Just making an effort is preferable to what he's mostly been doing since appearing here: Manufacturing justifications for NOT acting

 

[Mike32ct]

My counselor said it's possible there have been some older ones who were into me, yet never even bothered giving me IOIs because they thought there was no way a man my age would go for such a big age gap.

Yeah, it’s possible.

As for my counselor's thoughts on whether I should revise my age preference, her comments have been a mixed bag. She's said one surefire way to ensure I don't impregnate anyone is to get with a woman too old for pregnancy. Yet she's also said there are things that can be done about the pregnancy risk with a younger woman.

I don’t have the numbers in front of me to crunch, but if she’s younger and on the pill and you use a condom, it might end up being statistically safer than raw-ing a mid-to-upper 40s but not yet menopausal woman.

I suppose one workaround (to the age gap hurdle) is to target the absolute youngest end of my 45-65 age preference. This is one area where my premature wrinkles could help me. In my opinion, I could pass for 40 with my premature wrinkles. If a 45-46 year old woman thinks I'm 40 at first glance, they might not automatically write me off based on age (whereas a 55-65 year old woman is likely to automatically write me off based on age even with being able to fudge 40, as that's still a massive age gap)

For that matter, based on first glance alone, I might even have a better chance with the typical 45 year old woman than the typical 25 year old woman (because of my premature wrinkles)

I would get a skin care routine going asap.

Lastly, on the general topic of my desirability to the opposite sex, I remember posting an outfit picture on a thread this past winter where I was told I dressed like a 70 year old grandpa. My outfit today isn't as much of a grandpa outfit. Here it is (I blacked out the belt buckle to avoid potentially identifying myself):

Outfit is decent. Blue and gray work well. The belt seems fine for jeans.

At this point, GM isn't "losing" anything by approaching... Just making an effort is preferable to what he's mostly been doing since appearing here: Manufacturing justifications for NOT acting

Fair enough. Even just to socialize. And try for a number if it goes well.