Thinking you'll probably get rejected vs thinking you'll definitely get rejected

[BaronOfHair]

The instructor was adamant that we would fail most of the time

He failed you all by not pointing out that "failure" and "success" are just labels we put on events which either don't out the way we prefer or, by contrast, have results we find favorable

That event you spoke of ("After class, I saw an attractive girl at a bus stop. I approached her. Fully expecting to get a brush off. Instead she was really friendly and responsive. I wasn’t prepared for anything but rejection. Flustered, I told her; ‘Well, nice talking to you.’ And I walked off..")was "a failure", only in that you didn't get this gal into bed. In most other respects, it was quite successful:

-You made an approach, rather than continuing not to

-You practiced what you learned, rather than being one of those seminar junkies who goes home and forgets everything they learned

-She was receptive, didn't whip out the pepper spray, r-pe whistle, stun gun, etc etc

OP, look so many folks in our society these days, is f-c-ing himself up emotionally by viewing life in polarities/approaching everything as a zero sum game

 

[Clockwerk50]

Not sure if you’re upset that your psychologist "put" words in your mouth or that the two of you are not on the same page. To be truthful, it’s just semantics; “probably” carries a 70% to 90% chance of happening, while “always” means 100%. Either way, both percentages are against your favor.

No, it is illogical because, as stated before, the gambler’s fallacy is a misconception in probability where individuals mistakenly believe that past random events can influence the probability of future independent events. This means your past experiences have no effect on each new interaction with a woman. What actually changes your odds are your looks, money, status, and personality.

We have also said many times that in order to reduce your rejection rate or increase the number of women who show high interest, you need to work on your looks, money, status, and personality. These variables are indirectly proportional to your rejection rate.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I've been rejected even by mediocre gals the vast majority of the time.

At this point in your life, I presume you've been to more than a couple of job interviews, GM. And that more than one of them didn't result in you snagging the gig, even though the job you applied for was bottom of the barrel work. Did you persist in doing what you'd done prior in each subsequent interview, or did you alter your approach in some way, in order to achieve your career goals?

The same is true when it comes to acquiring mates/becoming more social in general

 

[corrector]

You are not worried about rejection, you are worried about the fall-out after rejection (ie bumping to the same women again who rejected you), and that translates to being worried any chance that would produce that outcome. You have to deal with women that you don't have a chance you'll see again in your life so there is no fall-out like that.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

The thread title is only allowed to be so long. I will explain more on my post.

In my latest counseling session, my counselor put words in my mouth. She accused me of thinking "I've been rejected before, therefore the odds of me getting rejected any time I shoot my shot from here on out are 100%"

Interestingly, posters on here have accused me of thinking that too.

Here's the thing though: I've never said (either on here or in counseling) I have a 100% chance of rejection with every woman from here on out.

My logic is more along the lines of "I've been rejected nearly every time, even in instances where I genuinely thought there was interest on the girl/woman's part. Therefore, I have every reason to believe I'm probably (not definitely; probably) going to get rejected by any given woman, no matter how many signs she's given me."

In other words, I acknowledge the possibility the woman might say yeah...but at the same time, I'm good enough at pattern recognition I can deduce what the outcome will probably be.

Is it reasonable for a guy with my track record to think he'll probably get rejected?

Great responses I see here.

I'll speak my piece...

Bro, it's a numbers game.

Ask anyone that ever played slots and hit it big..how many times did they play before they hit it?

Hundreds.

Thousands.

Now ask them was it worth it, and I bet they'll tell you HELL YEAH.

Everyone man can/will get rejected.

Just keep going.

If you get rejected by 10 women, approach 10 more.

If you get rejected by 100 women, approach another 100.

In the process, go to the gym...build muscle..make yourself physically attractive.

Your're bound to increase your chances by that alone.

Trust me, I know.

 

[plumber]

not quite! You can be ripped and still 'ugly' to lots of girls, i'm afraid (surprisingly, this will be very useful if you want older women!)
But it's definitely generally a good thing to do. A killer body will only tend to help!

it fixes how you look to yourself.

 

[BaronOfHair]

it fixes how you look to yourself.

Exactly!!! A man looks after his physical health for HIMSELF first and foremost, NOT for women or society. When folks in our lives leave(and they inevitably will, in some form or fashion), we still have to keep living

 

[GoodMan32]

Your mind will find a way to make whatever your actually believe come true subconsciously.

Until you understand and embrace that you have a TON of work to do mentally to shift your mindset, you might as well just go be a hermit or meditate or whatever else you want to do, it won't make a difference.

Right after I lost my v-card in college, I had a confidence boost. It didn't really get me far. Other than a girl from one of my classes who turned out to be too strange even for me (so I had no choice but to dump her less than 2 weeks into the relationship), every female classmate I shot my shot with turned me down. I largely had to rely on tech methods to get dates/sex in college.

My point? I didn't have much to show for the positive thoughts that came with my temporary confidence boost back then.

In other words, my lived experience disproves the idea that our thoughts will find a way to come true.

Reference the following conversation https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...ctually-hot-ever-seen-it.284580/#post-3167580

60 some years into the future, when you're 94, you MIGHT have an excuse. In the present day, you have NONE. If you're serious when you say "I'd be happy with a fat 5/10 woman in her 50s or older", go get one. Here in The US at least, we currently have a surplus of such gals who'd take you up on your offer, without a microsecond's hesitation

If there really are many a fat 5/10 woman in her 50s who would gladly take me up on my offer, I wouldn't be stuck in a 4 and half year dry spell from free sex.

OP for motivation, here is how I fvcked 5 girls in one night. I was randomly invited to mountain sorority cabin wine retreat event by a fraternity brother. I get there and apparently some girl invited her life guard coworkers to the cabin too and they were all 6ft plus, jacked, Travis Kelcie energy Chads/Jasons and I was like I can't compete against them lol. Instead of giving up, I just start talking to people like a normal human being. I don't remember how, but my shirt ends up coming off and a girl(the one I was eyeing at the whole time because she looked like a young Anne Hatheway) tells me that I am fvcking hot and the train starts rolling from there. Just be confident, normal, and likeable and that will get you farther in life than what you think.

I never went to a single party in college. I suppose there's a chance something like that could have happened if I attended college parties.

When I was in my late teens. Just entering college. The PUA scene was happening. I took a class on meeting girls at a community college (not mine). The instructor was adamant that we would fail most of the time. And we would get pushback and resistance. He gave all sorts of tricks on how to deal with these issues. But. The gist was you’ll need to fail a lot to learn.
After class, I saw an attractive girl at a bus stop. I approached her. Fully expecting to get a brush off. Instead she was really friendly and responsive. I wasn’t prepared for anything but rejection. Flustered, I told her; ‘Well, nice talking to you.’ And I walked off. She gave me a confused look.

I'm shocked (in a good way) a community college offered a class on meeting girls.

As for me, a major hurdle I'm facing is the fact I (for the most part) don't even know what I've done "wrong." You're right, we can learn a lot from failure...but only if we know why exactly we failed.

Not this sh** again...

It just so happens you're one of the posters to accuse me of thinking "I've been rejected before, therefore there's a 100% chance of rejection by every woman from here on out"

not quite! You can be ripped and still 'ugly' to lots of girls, i'm afraid (surprisingly, this will be very useful if you want older women!)
But it's definitely generally a good thing to do. A killer body will only tend to help!

My looks really aren't as bad as some posters make it sound. I asked an AI app (after feeding the app a picture of myself) "draw a picture of what you'd expect my girlfriend to look like." Here's what the AI app gave me:



AI only takes looks into account. AI doesn't account for autism, mental illness, low income, lack of a car, etc.

The fact AI gave me an attractive girlfriend proves what I've said before: If looks were all that mattered, I'd slay.

The fact I'd (per my own admission) be glad to dip all the way down to a fat 50-something woman with only average looks makes it all the more perplexing why I'm such a failure with the ladies.

 

[GoodMan32]

At this point in your life, I presume you've been to more than a couple of job interviews, GM. And that more than one of them didn't result in you snagging the gig, even though the job you applied for was bottom of the barrel work. Did you persist in doing what you'd done prior in each subsequent interview, or did you alter your approach in some way, in order to achieve your career goals?

The same is true when it comes to acquiring mates/becoming more social in general

I'm a terrible interviewer.

I've been in the same job for 6 and a half years now. I don't even really remember much about my interview strategy (with how long it's been)

You are not worried about rejection, you are worried about the fall-out after rejection (ie bumping to the same women again who rejected you), and that translates to being worried any chance that would produce that outcome. You have to deal with women that you don't have a chance you'll see again in your life so there is no fall-out like that.

You're right. That's why I have no nervousness whatsoever when shooting my shot at an organized singles event.

 

[Sega Genesis]

My logic is more along the lines of "I've been rejected nearly every time, even in instances where I genuinely thought there was interest on the girl/woman's part. Therefore, I have every reason to believe I'm probably (not definitely; probably) going to get rejected by any given woman, no matter how many signs she's given me."

@GoodMan32 this^^ is a really crappy mindset and in all likelihood the energy you're projecting as well.

As such, it's no wonder you continue getting rejected, women can smell that negativity from a mile away!

I would suggest you begin finding ways to become more posititve, it's a 'mind over matter' type of thing.

And learn resilience. Once you become resilient, you won't worry about getting rejected, you know you'll be fine and there's another woman right around the corner!

 

[Mike32ct]

When I was in my late teens. Just entering college. The PUA scene was happening. I took a class on meeting girls at a community college (not mine). The instructor was adamant that we would fail most of the time. And we would get pushback and resistance. He gave all sorts of tricks on how to deal with these issues. But. The gist was you’ll need to fail a lot to learn.
After class, I saw an attractive girl at a bus stop. I approached her. Fully expecting to get a brush off. Instead she was really friendly and responsive. I wasn’t prepared for anything but rejection. Flustered, I told her; ‘Well, nice talking to you.’ And I walked off. She gave me a confused look.

Yeah. Back in the PUA days, it was not uncommon for a guy to “open a set” and then “eject” prematurely because he felt like it wasn’t going anywhere (ie it was a soft rejection). So the guy walks away. Then the girl(s) who were actually interested say to his buddy/wingman “What happened to your friend? Why did he walk away?”

 

[SW15]

Back in the PUA days, it was not uncommon for a guy to “open a set” and then “eject” prematurely because he felt like it wasn’t going anywhere (ie it was a soft rejection). So the guy walks away. Then the girl(s) who were actually interested say to his buddy/wingman “What happened to your friend?”

Plenty of men still eject off of an approach in the 2020s if it isn't going well. A lot of approach conversations fizzle out within 30-60 seconds, especially non-bar approaches.

What you describe would be a bad misreading of a nightlife venue approach. Perhaps the women didn't give off good body language despite actually being interested or the man didn't pick up on any IOIs.

 

[BPH]

It just so happens you're one of the posters to accuse me of thinking "I've been rejected before, therefore there's a 100% chance of rejection by every woman from here on out"

I wish you would just shut the f*** up for a few months and go to the gym. I'm so tired of reading your trash.

Every...single...one of your threads reads the same:

"Hey guys, I suck, how do I suck less?"
"Go to the gym."
"Oh I don't want to do that, AI says I deserve a hot girlfriend, and I've had sex without paying before, so I can do that again."

*Fast forward a couple of weeks*

"Hey guys, I still suck and did none of the things you suggested, how do I suck less?"

You legitimately piss me off. I've never seen somebody so adamantly refuse the most obvious advice over and over again because you think you're some special snowflake.

Make some changes or get off the forum; you routinely waste everybody's time.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Right after I lost my v-card in college, I had a confidence boost. It didn't really get me far. Other than a girl from one of my classes who turned out to be too strange even for me (so I had no choice but to dump her less than 2 weeks into the relationship), every female classmate I shot my shot with turned me down. I largely had to rely on tech methods to get dates/sex in college.

My point? I didn't have much to show for the positive thoughts that came with my temporary confidence boost back then.

In other words, my lived experience disproves the idea that our thoughts will find a way to come true.



If there really are many a fat 5/10 woman in her 50s who would gladly take me up on my offer, I wouldn't be stuck in a 4 and half year dry spell from free sex.



I never went to a single party in college. I suppose there's a chance something like that could have happened if I attended college parties.



I'm shocked (in a good way) a community college offered a class on meeting girls.

As for me, a major hurdle I'm facing is the fact I (for the most part) don't even know what I've done "wrong." You're right, we can learn a lot from failure...but only if we know why exactly we failed.



It just so happens you're one of the posters to accuse me of thinking "I've been rejected before, therefore there's a 100% chance of rejection by every woman from here on out"



My looks really aren't as bad as some posters make it sound. I asked an AI app (after feeding the app a picture of myself) "draw a picture of what you'd expect my girlfriend to look like." Here's what the AI app gave me:

View attachment 14464

AI only takes looks into account. AI doesn't account for autism, mental illness, low income, lack of a car, etc.

The fact AI gave me an attractive girlfriend proves what I've said before: If looks were all that mattered, I'd slay.

The fact I'd (per my own admission) be glad to dip all the way down to a fat 50-something woman with only average looks makes it all the more perplexing why I'm such a failure with the ladies.

A temporary confidence boost does not reprogram your brain and what you think of yourself that you've been spending your entire life formulating, usually from a relatively early age.

Give me a break. That would be like asking why you didn't drain the Pacific ocean when you took a bucket of water out of it.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I'm a terrible interviewer.

You don't say?!! I trust you're beginning to notice the parallels between that conundrum and you're social difficulties more generally

 

[saige]

I used to run alot. Now I walk alot. I am not crazy about the time it takes and I am not crazy about the getting sweaty and so forth either. So from that standpoint I find it somewhat tedious & I am not terribly motivated to work out.

@BE I'm a woman and totally get where you're coming from! Up to one month ago, I used to do heavy lifting at least 4x a week. Compound lifts, tracking PRs, making sure I hit absurd amounts of protein daily, pushing to failure in the gym thinking that was the "right" way to train because it's what all the fitness influencers and gym bros swore by. Always felt guilty if I wasn't chasing the "gains" or whatever but it never felt aligned with my body honestly. I felt inflamed and tense lol. I literally weighed the same back then as I do now, but my body just felt off.

Now I mostly walk, do yoga, and some Pilates. Started tracking my cycle to change my exercise routine. Stopped the constant energy drinks. And the difference is actually huge, not just physically (I look so much leaner) but mentally. My appetite is way lower with lower intensity exercise, my mood is better, and my muscles aren’t constantly locked up.

Not saying we shouldn't lift weights or run for miles, but the whole train for hours a day shtick didn't serve me long term.

 

[corrector]

AI says I deserve a hot girlfriend,

You can see that by my profile picture, which was AI generated.

 

[Divorced w 3]

OP for motivation, here is how I fvcked 5 girls in one night. I was randomly invited to mountain sorority cabin wine retreat event by a fraternity brother. I get there and apparently some girl invited her life guard coworkers to the cabin too and they were all 6ft plus, jacked, Travis Kelcie energy Chads/Jasons and I was like I can't compete against them lol. Instead of giving up, I just start talking to people like a normal human being. I don't remember how, but my shirt ends up coming off and a girl(the one I was eyeing at the whole time because she looked like a young Anne Hatheway) tells me that I am fvcking hot and the train starts rolling from there. Just be confident, normal, and likeable and that will get you farther in life than what you think.

If that really happened, I bow to you. That’s amazing. You have me beat. I concur on keeping it real and just being your self.

To illustrate , the three threesomes I have had are as follows: One took 90 seconds, but I approached them at the bar; one found me at a college party, just chilling like you said; and one happened end of a night out.

every time I was just being myself. Great points.

 

[SW15]

I'm a terrible interviewer.

I've been in the same job for 6 and a half years now.

You don't say?!! I trust you're beginning to notice the parallels between that conundrum and you're social difficulties more generally

@GoodMan32 is lucky to even have a job given the state of the current economy.

White collar work has been in a recession since 2023. Companies have been laying off for the last 2 years and most people who have been layoff victims during the last 2 years have struggled to find new employment. For laid off employees, it is now taking 6+ months to find a job and most are getting new employment at a salary cut.

Job interviews are a stressful situation for anyone. There are some parallels between job interviews and early stage seduction. I don't think there's enough similarity to make a good comparison. There are plenty of people who are good at doing jobs in a given field who perform at below average levels in interviews. The majority of those cases are neurotypical people too.

If @GoodMan32 were unemployed, it would lower his SMV even further.

@GoodMan32 having been with the same employer for 6.5 years is an unusual circumstance in the modern economy. That situation would be difficult to duplicate in another company and likely difficult to duplicate a different industry. In most companies/industries/job functions, a more typical duration of employment with one employer is something like 2-3 years.

 

[corrector]

If you get rejected by 10 women, approach 10 more.

If you get rejected by 100 women, approach another 100.

As long as it is a learning opportunity then its all good.