Observations on Miami's scene.

biggoal

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If theyre paying 2 grand a month for a 5 bedroom, might as well take out a loan and buy it.
That's a steal compared to Florida man. You wouldn't believe what houses and rent go for in Florida, mainly south FL right now. In west Palm or Miami that same house would be 6k a month right now easily. It's that bad. My area at least 3500 a month.
 

BillyPilgrim

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For me, it was being lucky and finding a really good place. Yeah, the rent is crazy in Miami and it is tough to find roommates unlike NYC. As for how people are affording it, well its because Miami draws in Goldman Sachs, Amazon, and Blackstone so you take a wild guess.


As for guys doing well, I don't think its money maxxing. I think they look good, are chill, have great social skills, and are just fun guys to be around. I like to call them naturals.
That's a steal compared to Florida man. You wouldn't believe what houses and rent go for in Florida, mainly south FL right now. In west Palm or Miami that same house would be 6k a month right now easily. It's that bad. My area at least 3500 a month.
And it's a$$holes like Blackstone's sister company Blackrock and Vangaurd that are deliberately buying up properties to drive up the cost of housing. How chill and social are the local dudes going to be when the rents keep rising? How charming can you be when you're starving? I think we may see a transition from golddigger game to fooddigger game.

It's going to be over for socialcels. Preppercels may soon get laid for a bag of lay's. And a stale bag at that.
 
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biggoal

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And it's a$$holes like Blackstone's sister company Blackrock and Vangaurd that are deliberately buying up properties to drive up the cost of housing. How chill and social are the local dudes going to be when the rents keep rising? How charming can you be when you're starving? I think we may see a transition from golddigger game to fooddigger game.

It's going to be over for socialcels. Preppercels may soon get laid for a bag of lay's.
I agree. Blackstone, Vanguard, and large firms are buying up all the houses and apartments in big cities. Sorta like what Carvana and Carmax has done.

Notice how their prices for used cars are about 15 percent higher than the traditional dealers? They're buying up all the used inventory and basically setting the market price now because the traditional car lots can't compete because they will buy your car outright for more than a regular dealer.

Blackrock etc. are basically controlling the market and dictating the prices. They want a nation of renters, not home owners. So if you want to be a local guy you're going to have to work two jobs to live on your own down here. Many people here in FL already work two jobs. It drains you fast.

No point of living in Miami if you're working 60 hours a week, two jobs and no time to go out and have fun.
 

Jesse Pinkman

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Yo so there's been so many of you quoting me, I am just going to respond to everything in one post.

1. @SW15

The point I was trying to make is that those white nerdy guys in San Fran have a strong niche with the overabundance of low value and self-hating Asian and Indian women around. These guys can literally wear suspenders and pocket protectors but some desperate Asian girl will go for them. In Miami, these guys have no niche as their competition is largely alpha white guys. So Miami ends up being tougher for the tech bros, finance bros, and PUA types as a result of them not having any niche whatsoever.

2. @nicksaiz65

I hate to be that guy dude but if you are asking that question and do not know how to get there, you probably won't get there. IMO, even the fact that you are using incel lingo like STEMcel kind of shows that you might look out of place with guys that get it. I implore you to find fun hobbies and disconnect from the internet for a few months, start with MMA/BJJ.

3. @EyeBRollin

If you think that, you were stuck in South Beach or some ghetto and nowhere else. That is like me judging NYC by Staten Island and some ghetto part of Queens. These days NYC is full of more of the wannabe artist types that have infested Williamsburg and are living in the city on their parents' dime. I find the women there to not just be more clout chasing but be more of the #MeToo Cancel Culture types. Even comedians like Andrew Schulz refuse to go to Miami because the outrage cancel culture is much worse in NYC.

As for the city dying, yeah it is. COVID not only killed a lot of the economy but it turned people into pro-vaxx mask nazis. Crime has gone up and the quality of women has gone down.

If you do not think Miami is above LA, I do not know what to tell you. Women in LA suck and these days, its all a bunch of fat Asian and fat Mexicans. Miami has proper Latinas and actual international white women. LA is a dump.

And to cap it off, yeah, the WOKEism in NYC has gotten insane and it has made women unbearable.
 
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Very true. The fees for everything is more like a liberal democrat state than a Republican one! Missouri has a income tax, so does GA but the savings on everything else outweighs it. Unless you're like a uber rich person but for the majority it cost more in the long run. Registration for cars, if you bring a new car into FL is a joke. For my car it was $350 in 2015.

Tolls roads too. In MO, AR, TN no such thing. The voters would never vote for a toll road in MO. They couldn't even get voters to raise the tobacco tax in MO.
no one is dying to live in MO, AR, or Tn lmao
 
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Don’t see the hype in Miami. I go there literally every year and I’ve never been so impressed by the talent there. It’s also pretty liberal so idk how you can shvt on other liberal cities and then praise Miami lol. I think y’all are comparing expensive:/tourist sections of Miami to suburbs/living areas of other cities which isn’t a fair comparison. You’re going to find hot women in every major city with its cons period.
 

MatureDJ

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So at some point during the pandemic, after about four years in NYC and seeing how much the city had gone downhill, I decided to come down to Miami. Like most others who heard of remote work, a lot of my friends moved to Miami and so I decided to pick the city because I had a curiosity for it. NYC was a shell of its former shelf and Bill De Blasio is one of the worst mayors in American history of any major city. I digress but screw it. Ever since being in Miami, I have noticed some trends around game that I thought I'd share with anyone who might be interested in the city. I am going to be away for a few weeks from the city so I thought I'd post this.

Let us get this out of the way, the women here are the best looking in the country.

Even hotter than NYC and way above LA. One caveat, if you like Asian girls then this city will suck but I am not really into Asian girls myself. Lately though, the Asian population here has been on the uptick due to big tech moving in (more on that later on in the thread). If you like white women and Latinas, the city is top notch. In NYC, I ran into more basic American white girls living in Manhattan. In Miami? You are far more likely to run into legit European women. As for Latinas, nothing to be said, best city in the US for them.

But like any other American city, it is declining. I give it five years.

Despite having a Republican mayor and an alpha governor like De Santis, Miami is declining. I notice more homelessness here than during the pandemic and Big Tech is flowing into the city. I have also seen the changes trickle in overtime where hot latin women are slowly being replaced by pink haired SJWs and dorky Asian ladies. Wynnwood is such a joke and I will plead with all men to avoid it, the place will make you barf and is located right next to a super sketchy neighborhood. Meanwhile, South Beach has gone from being once cool to now just being straight up ratchet. Crime is a serious problem in South Beach and locals do not go there.

For now, things may be good but within 5 years, I think Miami will be just like Austin. The techies and SJWs have the city in their sights as their next big haven.

PUAs, "game" guys, and the type of guys affiliated with those communities get slaughtered here.

At some point a few years back, I got into the game community upon moving to NYC. I got tired of staying with old college circles and at that point, RSD was under hot water and all. While I loved the idea of chatting up random women for a lay, I hated all else about the community. Majority of the guys I winged with that I met from those places were trash. The few good ones? I kept in touch with them and even met up with them for a few weekends. Not even in NYC was I seeing PUA guys get hopelessly destroyed, like sh1t was brutal man. Just the vibe these guys give off automatically turns Miami women off.

Most of the guys who struggle to score in Miami are those that moved here during the pandemic and work in finance or are techies.

I'll throw PUA and game guys into this mix as well. A lot of these dudes moved to Miami from the Bay Area and other more dorkier parts of the country for the purpose of game and man, they are struggling like none other. You will hear these dudes cry about how bad Miami is, how all of the women here are gold diggers, and just complain about the city nonstop. The reality is that these guys might have done alright in a San Francisco where some dorky and desperate Asian girl gave them head but in Miami, they aren't finding too much of that demographic (although Asians are moving here en masse).

A lot of the times, these tech and finance bro types thought they were cool in their own home cities only to come to Miami and get humbled fast.

A certain kind of a guy slays and does well in Miami.

I call Miami the Natural's Paradise. What I mean by this is that the guys who do well in Miami are just raw. Think about the douchey frat boy, the Rob Gronkowski types, or the loose MMA fighter. Women in Miami seem to care less about what you say and care more about the rawness and the vibes you give off. PUAs who are stuck in "theories" and "how tos" of "escalation" come off as very scripted and get wrecked here.

For example, I used to go to a popular bar in the city and when I went there with some wings I knew a while back from the game community? No one got laid and everyone was getting blown out. A month later, I go with a former roommate and his crazy and loose friend from Louisiana. The result? We all end up getting laid that need because of this clown with low inhibition. Even though the guy was not attractive, he seemed to give off that raw vibe that women picked up on.

It is also worth mentioning that the competition here is the toughest I've seen of any other city I have lived in.

Miami guys seem to really care about lifting and style but they also approach in a natural sort of a way. When I went out in NYC, not that many guys were approaching. When I go out in Miami? Dudes clearly approach and they do not come off as PUAs. Guys here give off that carefree yet alpha vibe that would slay just about anywhere on the planet. Unlike an LA where social circles are based on your fake career or popularity in entertainment, in Miami it seems like genuinely cool and alpha guys just naturally get the circle they want. Like if I take an LA guy out of his circle, he gets slaughtered in other cities but a Miami guy would slay in just about any city out there.

Nightlife here is doable but underwhelming.

Miami's nightlife mostly sucks and it is in some ways a pay to play city. Wynnwood is awful and overrated while the women are hideous, it's Williamsburg's uglier trashier cousin. From what I have observed, your best chances are with a sizable group of women who are fed up with Miami nightlife and likely to go to Happy Hour type of spots that can get wilder in the night. Thankfully, these spots are still off the radar for the PUA and Game guys that have infested the city in recent years and practically ruined the vibe. Naturals tend to hunt in these types of bars and usually get lucky with a girl by the end of the night. A PUA spam approacher type will look really out of place in these sorts of spots.

For the sake of buying Miami more time before it becomes infested with PUA spam approaching creeps everywhere, I will not share the name of the bars that naturals I know have done well in.

All in all, it's nothing like NYC where you just have rows after rows of bars with hot girls. It's more concentrated.

Daygame here is very doable for a socially adjusted and normal dude, once again, PUAs suffer.

It stands to be repeated, Miami is not a PUA friendly city. Meanwhile, normal and socially adjusted men can do quite well with daygame here. If you do a certain amount of approaches and focus on quality rather than spam approaching like some maniac, Miami can work for you. I have known guys that spam approached in the city and were burnt hard. Meanwhile, I have known men who focused more on quality and just coming off as natural in the approach who were able to get good things going.

Now this thread looks like I am berating PUAs but I am not. What I am saying is that while a PUA might score in a Vegas or an NYC, their vibe will not be welcomed in Miami. I am not sure why this is but I think it might be because women here are used to men that are naturals and genuinely cool guys to where some spam approaching PUA would really stick out like a sore thumb.

I'll add more as I get more time, got a flight tomorrow fellas.
You do Miami; I'll do Warsaw. :cool:
 

MatureDJ

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And it's a$$holes like Blackstone's sister company Blackrock and Vangaurd that are deliberately buying up properties to drive up the cost of housing. How chill and social are the local dudes going to be when the rents keep rising? How charming can you be when you're starving? I think we may see a transition from golddigger game to fooddigger game.

It's going to be over for socialcels. Preppercels may soon get laid for a bag of lay's. And a stale bag at that.
The more apropro line would be: It's OVER for Sub8MiddleIncomeCels.
 

MatureDJ

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f you do not think Miami is above LA, I do not know what to tell you. Women in LA suck and these days, its all a bunch of fat Asian and fat Mexicans. Miami has proper Latinas and actual international white women. LA is a dump.
I've long known that SoCal is overrated, ever since I had lived there 3 decades ago. And I've heard from Northern emigres that the dating scene is ultra-competitive - these guys were usually ones that I would talk to in Eastern Europe. :)
 

SW15

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1. @SW15

The point I was trying to make is that those white nerdy guys in San Fran have a strong niche with the overabundance of low value and self-hating Asian and Indian women around. These guys can literally wear suspenders and pocket protectors but some desperate Asian girl will go for them. In Miami, these guys have no niche as their competition is largely alpha white guys. So Miami ends up being tougher for the tech bros, finance bros, and PUA types as a result of them not having any niche whatsoever.
Valid point...

There are a ton of white nerdy men (many Aspie) in San Fran and Silicon Valley. While many remain sexless, there are some that can get with Asian and Indian women. Mark Zuckerberg is the best known example of a nerdy white male who got with an Asian woman. Keep in mind that Zuckerberg got a subpar looking Asian woman while at Harvard in Metro Boston and got her before he made his big money. There have been other nerdy white guys who have done exactly what Zuckerberg did. San Fran/Bay Area is a common place for that.

Miami is not a hub for Asian women. Among the locals, it's mostly Latinas, black women, and a mix of US/European born white women. The white women in Miami likely have better social skills than a lot of white men in Miami.

Miami's ratios are slightly than the sausage fest that is the San Fran/Bay Area.

@Jesse Pinkman -- When you talk about Miami, are you solely talking about Miami/Miami Beach/Coral Gables and Dade County? It's my understanding that Broward and Palm Beach Counties have different dynamics in their scenes as well as being far molre white. Fort Lauderdale is the biggest city in Broward County. Broward and Palm Beach are more suburban and have more marrieds. There are more divorced white women in their 40s in Broward and Palm Beach.

Another US example where there can be two sizable cities nearby with different mating environments is Dallas and Fort Worth. Downtown Dallas and Downtown Fort Worth are separated by 32 miles. The mating scenes in Central Dallas neighborhoods vs. Central Fort Worth neighborhoods are way different and a bit off topic for this thread.

As for the city dying, yeah it is. COVID not only killed a lot of the economy but it turned people into pro-vaxx mask nazis. Crime has gone up and the quality of women has gone down.

If you do not think Miami is above LA, I do not know what to tell you. Women in LA suck and these days, its all a bunch of fat Asian and fat Mexicans. Miami has proper Latinas and actual international white women. LA is a dump.

And to cap it off, yeah, the WOKEism in NYC has gotten insane and it has made women unbearable.
New York City used to be a good mating environment but it has changed rapidly in the last 5-10 years. Ratios had always been better than the West Coast. NYC was declining even before COVID hit but COVID made the mating environment in NYC much worse. You have good points about attitude.

LA has always been a tough environment due to a bad surplus of males.

Miami would be a superior option to both.

no one is dying to live in MO, AR, or Tn lmao
Nashville is Austin 2.0. People are flocking to Nashville. Memphis, Knoxville, and Chattanooga don't have the same thing going on.

St. Louis has lost of a lot of luster over time. I've not heard much about Kansas City.

so you would rather live in Oxford,MS over a major city with better employment opportunities?
Oxford would only be acceptable if you were a student at University of Mississippi.
 
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Nashville is literally 35 on the metro population list. it’s a small secondary city that thinks it’s NYC with its cost of living because it can attract people from Peoria, Illinois, and bum fvck Michigan. Im from Nashville, so I can tell you that it is not worth the noise you saw on your drunk Broadway weekend bachelor trip 3 years ago. Don’t let the Tennessee yard fool you. Nashville is one of the most expensive cities to live especially for a secondary city. The people doing well in Nashville are people that got relocated there from states like high col states New Jersey with their companies and were given a comfortable promotion salary with house equity.

I’ve lived in Austin before and I’m not a huge fan of it and prefer Houston or Dallas over it. Nonetheless, I would choose Austin over Nashville any day because the job market Is way better, the climate isn’t Ohio with tornadoes and hurricanes, and you have access to more resources being in Texas.
 

SW15

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Nashville is literally 35 on the metro population list. it’s a small secondary city that thinks it’s NYC with its cost of living because it can attract people from Peoria, Illinois, and bum fvck Michigan.
I visited Nashville many years ago and didn't like it. I wouldn't relocate there but it is probably decent if you grew up there and are well rooted in that city. Of course, if that's the case, you're going to getting dates from your social circle and never find a place like SoSuave online.

The people doing well in Nashville are people that got relocated there from states like high col states New Jersey with their companies and were given a comfortable promotion salary with house equity.
A lot of those people are married people who aren't looking for new sex partners.

I’ve lived in Austin before and I’m not a huge fan of it and prefer Houston or Dallas over it. Nonetheless, I would choose Austin over Nashville any day because the job market Is way better, the climate isn’t Ohio with tornadoes and hurricanes, and you have access to more resources being in Texas.
Austin and Dallas are two most difficult mating environments in Texas. The reasons for this vary. Houston, San Antonio, and Fort Worth are better mating environment in the sense that female attitudes are more tolerable than either Austin or Dallas. I don't blame you for preferring Houston or Dallas over it.
 

HaleyBaron

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Austin and Dallas are two most difficult mating environments in Texas. The reasons for this vary. Houston, San Antonio, and Fort Worth are better mating environment in the sense that female attitudes are more tolerable than either Austin or Dallas. I don't blame you for preferring Houston or Dallas over it.
What kinda helps these two cities however is the major universities that bring in even out of town girls. This influx helps balances out the stagnatation that occurs from the local women. The lack of international travel unfortunately has killed a lot of foreign girls showing up in the city life.
 

nicksaiz65

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Yo so there's been so many of you quoting me, I am just going to respond to everything in one post.

1. @SW15

The point I was trying to make is that those white nerdy guys in San Fran have a strong niche with the overabundance of low value and self-hating Asian and Indian women around. These guys can literally wear suspenders and pocket protectors but some desperate Asian girl will go for them. In Miami, these guys have no niche as their competition is largely alpha white guys. So Miami ends up being tougher for the tech bros, finance bros, and PUA types as a result of them not having any niche whatsoever.

2. @nicksaiz65

I hate to be that guy dude but if you are asking that question and do not know how to get there, you probably won't get there. IMO, even the fact that you are using incel lingo like STEMcel kind of shows that you might look out of place with guys that get it. I implore you to find fun hobbies and disconnect from the internet for a few months, start with MMA/BJJ.

3. @EyeBRollin

If you think that, you were stuck in South Beach or some ghetto and nowhere else. That is like me judging NYC by Staten Island and some ghetto part of Queens. These days NYC is full of more of the wannabe artist types that have infested Williamsburg and are living in the city on their parents' dime. I find the women there to not just be more clout chasing but be more of the #MeToo Cancel Culture types. Even comedians like Andrew Schulz refuse to go to Miami because the outrage cancel culture is much worse in NYC.

As for the city dying, yeah it is. COVID not only killed a lot of the economy but it turned people into pro-vaxx mask nazis. Crime has gone up and the quality of women has gone down.

If you do not think Miami is above LA, I do not know what to tell you. Women in LA suck and these days, its all a bunch of fat Asian and fat Mexicans. Miami has proper Latinas and actual international white women. LA is a dump.

And to cap it off, yeah, the WOKEism in NYC has gotten insane and it has made women unbearable.
I do want to point out that I’m trying to be somewhat facetious using the incel lingo. Like, STEM-Cel? That shyt is hilarious, I laugh every time I hear it :rofl:

I guess it is hard for that to come off with just text on a page.

I do know how to get there as well. Just wanted to see if you had anything to add
 

Jesse Pinkman

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@SW15

I am talking solely about Dade County and don't sell white guys in Miami short. I'd venture to say that white guys from Miami and Florida in general have the tightest game and pull the most out of any other white guys I have seen. They seem to not care and or take themselves too seriously. If I could vouch for one state to carry the game torch for the US, it be Florida. I have met so many naturals here who have had one night stands and pulled with all kinds of foreign women.

Meanwhile, back in my home state of Georgia the average white guy is a Bible Thumping sex shaming loser. If not that, then some loud annoying redneck. At best, someone who can be good at playing social circle game but sounds awkward cold approaching. Same with NYC, I was shocked at how awful the game of local NYC guys is as well. Most take themselves too seriously.

As for my point about Miami, the people are just cooler and higher value, period. No dorky over compensating techie is going to compete with naturals that lift, do MMA, and have a chill vibe. It's why California guys get crushed here from what I have witnessed. The problem with Florida is literally the competition, not the ratios. Women have a lot of handsome and genuinely cool guys to choose from.

If it was not for very tight knit social circles, San Fran would be a lot easier than Miami.
 

biggoal

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@SW15

I am talking solely about Dade County and don't sell white guys in Miami short. I'd venture to say that white guys from Miami and Florida in general have the tightest game and pull the most out of any other white guys I have seen. They seem to not care and or take themselves too seriously. If I could vouch for one state to carry the game torch for the US, it be Florida. I have met so many naturals here who have had one night stands and pulled with all kinds of foreign women.

Meanwhile, back in my home state of Georgia the average white guy is a Bible Thumping sex shaming loser. If not that, then some loud annoying redneck. At best, someone who can be good at playing social circle game but sounds awkward cold approaching. Same with NYC, I was shocked at how awful the game of local NYC guys is as well. Most take themselves too seriously.

As for my point about Miami, the people are just cooler and higher value, period. No dorky over compensating techie is going to compete with naturals that lift, do MMA, and have a chill vibe. It's why California guys get crushed here from what I have witnessed. The problem with Florida is literally the competition, not the ratios. Women have a lot of handsome and genuinely cool guys to choose from.

If it was not for very tight knit social circles, San Fran would be a lot easier than Miami.
Those "redneck" states like Missouri, Texas, Tennessee, Arkansas, Mississippi also have no gun laws, respect the right to carry more and also are a ton of conservative. Georgia just passed constitutional carry while Floriduh Republicans squashed the bill.

Florida has pretty strict gun laws to most states now. No open carry, 21 to buy a AR, 3 day wait period, need a permit. The states I listed don't require that garbage.
 

SW15

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I am talking solely about Dade County and don't sell white guys in Miami short. I'd venture to say that white guys from Miami and Florida in general have the tightest game and pull the most out of any other white guys I have seen. They seem to not care and or take themselves too seriously. If I could vouch for one state to carry the game torch for the US, it be Florida. I have met so many naturals here who have had one night stands and pulled with all kinds of foreign women.

Meanwhile, back in my home state of Georgia the average white guy is a Bible Thumping sex shaming loser. If not that, then some loud annoying redneck. At best, someone who can be good at playing social circle game but sounds awkward cold approaching. Same with NYC,I was shocked at how awful the game of local NYC guys is as well. Most take themselves too seriously.
Your point about Florida white guys seems valid. People in the Northeast are more serious minded as compared to people in Florida. I imagine the white dating scene in Georgia is not good at all. Social circle would be quite important there post college and even in college for those who attend college.

As for my point about Miami, the people are just cooler and higher value, period. No dorky over compensating techie is going to compete with naturals that lift, do MMA, and have a chill vibe. It's why California guys get crushed here from what I have witnessed. The problem with Florida is literally the competition, not the ratios. Women have a lot of handsome and genuinely cool guys to choose from.

If it was not for very tight knit social circles, San Fran would be a lot easier than Miami.
There is some overlap between the concepts of ratios and competition. Almost every US metro has an oversupply of males problem under age 40-45. While there is an oversupply of males in San Fran/Bay Area, most of the oversupply of males are males with poor social skills, tech guys, etc. In Miami, there is also an oversupply of males (though less drastic than San Fran from what I understand), but the typical male has better social skills. The type of male that lives in Miami is more socially skilled. Miami doesn't have the corporate jobs that San Fran has. Areas with big time corporate jobs bring in a lot of boring males (this community would call them AFCs/betas) because most white collar workers are boring, bland males, even the non-technical roles.
 
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