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NFL Thread

doctoroxygen

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Yeah, but something tells me that's old "Me-shawn". I think he's gonna fall in line. Smith isn't particular about his catches, either, so it's not like there's gonna be two primadonna out wide.

Did anyone here know that the 100th anniversary of the greatest invention in sport history, the forward pass, was last week? The first forward pass was completed a hundred years ago...that's so cool.
 

A-Unit

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Re:

I can't entirely comment on Rugby, as I've only seen it sparingly. However, what I do is this...

Take the pads off the NFL players and they'd be dead or parapalegics. They really would be. How many NFL players are injured, career or life-threatening each year? How many players actually make it to their 60's or 70's? Most don't make it to their 40's without some semblance of problems. Some retire early from the hits they take.

Comparing this to Rugby, what the fish across the pond "believe" is that NFL football is girly in comparison? If Rugby players play as tought, fast, and hard as NFL, they'd be dead NOW, since as you fanatics put it, they play harder. Are your nursing homes riddled with middle-aged men in a decrepit state? If they play PADLESS, there's NO WAY they play as harsh or violent. The NFL is comprised of the best athletes, because it PAYS the best, and if Rugby and the NFL are slightly similar, then a Rugby player would KILL his body in pads for millions, rather than KILL it without pads for only hundreds of thousands.

The Athletes are better, faster, larger and stronger. They're cultivated from youth, and recruited around the world (since colleges recruite around the world, they feed the NFL with international players as well). Yes, they play in pads, because if they didn't, the sport WOULD NOT EXIST. Guys suffer season ending injuries almost daily, some already have. Yes, it's comprised of a motley crew, some whom have committed felonies, so they are not socially great role models, but then, what guy with such devastating amounts of aggression and testosterone EVER IS?

Am I an NFL apologist? Perhaps. People pick shots and compare the wrong things under the wrong lens. They're both UNIQUE sports, and if one were better than the other, then only ONE would exist. Rugby get's good exposure, but the NFL is money-marketing machine. Teams are already approaching the billion dolar mark. The Pats have increased in value over 200% since Kraft bought them. Snyder's team is worth more than 1 billion, too.

I respect ALL sports, because as a golfer, few give golf the noble title of "sport", until at least Tiger has done his damage to qualify as History's Greatest Athlete (And that title is fast becoming his, given his dominance within the field of golf).

The sports can't be compared, but to say they're pvssies for wearing pads is to show your own ignorance of the sports rules and methods, because if the shots they give or take are for pvssies, why are so many injured, rattled, concussed, or forced out for a whole season or to retire early?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As far as teams go...

The following teams are OVER-VALUED, so SELL them.

Pittsburgh. ~ You're going to miss Bettis. Parker's got his first year of carries ahead, and we'll see what he does. They like to pound it, and that's not Parker. Moreover, let's see what the receiver's do. Holmes has to stay out of trouble first, and the only other guy is Wilson, a retread of the 49ers who's been ok. If Roth isn't dead yet, he will be. 1 accident plus an appendechtomy is QUITE a bit of surgery in one year. It'd be a miracle if he remembers his name. God help him when he gets hit.

Indy. ~ Edge did more than the 1500 yards he tacked on. He received the ball well, was/is an elite RB, and blocked incredibly well to be in the game on ALL downs. Rhodes isn't a primary carrier, and Addai is a rookie. They'll have a RBBC of players that aren't quite ready in either respect. Rhodes will do ok, as might Addai, but as the Pats had shown, OK at RB isn't OK. Faulk is much like Rhodes, and Addai is green as a rookie. For a back like Peyton who isn't mobile, blocking here is key. If the running game picks up, they'll be productive as always, and they can stay in on shootouts. The hope is their D is the same as last but they did lose a few key guys.

Denver. ~ Plummer will resort back to his old ways, and getting Cutler is very telling of what they think about Plummer and his future. Walker hasn't proven himself; one season isn't proving yourself. Ask Michael Clayton. Ask Joey Galloway. Ask David Boston. Ask Peerless Price. There's tons of one year wonders. They will find a rb to run for them, but they also let go of Trevor Pryce, a key sack-master for Denver, with no appreciable gains on Defense, a key problem last year for Denver. Their Wr's, outside of Smith and Walker, who's just returning to the game, aren't there. Watts was a high pick in 2004, who hasn't contributed yet. Tony Scheffler looks ok. But their offensive depth isn't there. Rod Smith probably had his last productive year @ 36.

Carolina. ~ When everybody and YOUR MOTHER, thinks Carolina will dominate, watch out. The same was said of Indy last year, and to an extent they did, but a weak kicker and the inability to run ball hurt them against PITT. Carolina has alot on their side. Good wr's. Good rb's. A solid D. It's almost TOO good to be true, and that's why I don't buy it. They did improve in many areas. But when you're the automatic favorite, watch out. This is a guy pick, that they still can't get it done on D to win out.

Seattle. ~ I threw this here, despite the weak schedule, but the Madden curse still holds weight, and that offense runs on Shaun Alexander. If he went down, they'd only be mediocre. Losing their guard Hutchinson isn't a factor, b/c their fill-ins should be ok. They took Tom Ashworth from the Pats. But the attempts to get Branch scare me about Jackson, and without Jackson, there's not alot of talent to chuck, too. Stevens is an OK TE.

I think the above teams MIGHT make the playoffs, but some have holes not seen. PITT was VERY lucky in the superbowl. Those were the most botched calls in one game of the most importance I've ever seen. I know refs normally get it right, but that was VERY very wrong. They had a hard-on to pay PITT back for the busted Polamalu pick, that was reversed. That's why you never heard Cower bytch, otherwise he would have been very public.

Washington could be sneaky, despite poor D against the Pat's. The Pat's are very sneaky. They got deep and they were missing LOTS of critical pieces, that hopefully will remain intact this year. To get as far as they did was surprising, but they've upgraded in a lot of spots and Brady has more targets now than he did last year. As well as a RB committee that will help ease pressure.

Dallas could be good, but the TO stuff will hurt.

I think Rivers gets his act straight, and SD gets much better. They were green with Brees back there, and they still did ok. Now his cast is mature. Vincent Jackson is a BEAST and they've upgraded a decent defense.

Philly is great with the addition of Donte Stallworth. McNabb didn't need TO, and he'll prove that again this year.

A-Unit
 

thefonz

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Pats are looking solid this year.
 

doctoroxygen

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I don't think the SEA offense runs through Alexander necessarily. The Holmgren offense doesn't really require top-level WRs (though getting Branch would be a HUGE plus), and Hasselbeck has finally become an elite QB.
 

MetalFortress

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seanchai said:
I would also like to know.
Don't bother trying to get a reasonable answer. He thinks it sucks cuz he's a European elitist prick who thinks Soccer is the greatest game ever to walk this earth. Soccer is a good sport, but its hardcore apologists are annoying as hell.

Football: CHARGERS. Philip Rivers is playing his first year as quarterback, and how he does will determine how the Chargers do, as well as if we can get Michael Turner onto the field more at times when LT needs rest.
 

KillaCam

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Heh, the old NFL - Rugby debate again :)

Since I don't play Gridiron (American Football, whatever you like to call it) I can't judge either. But that is a game I sure as hell would love to play, god it looks violent.

It's too difficult to compare both even if someone has played both at a high level. NFL is a lot more structured, special teams, defense teams, offensive teams, play breaks, where as Rugby is a lot more broken, 40min flat out each half.

Either way, NFL looks incredibly violent. But I won't ignore the concussions, broken bones and lacerations that Rugby has bought me over 12 years. I'd kill for pads, helmets and breaks ;)

Nah, love 'em both. If it entertains, no need to question it!
 

Bonhomme

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Whatever the case, I don't hold out much hope for the Detroit Lions.
 

[S]alvatore

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Well i'm not gonna hang any sh!t on Packers fans, because dealing with a loss is hard enough as it is. I only heard up until half time before work, then I checked back and the game was over and saw that we had won 26-0. I can't wait to see what Hester can do this season.
 

Bible_Belt

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The Bucs' Chris Simms is the worst qb in the nfl. He just had two consecutive games with 3 picks and zero touchdowns.

I find the Vikings entertaining, Forbes recently valued them as the cheapest team in the NFL at 700-something million dollars. They have very little talent, but they are scrappy and well-coached, and have started 2-0.
 

Black Circle

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The last time I checked, America was the only country that mattered so shut the fu.k up with rugby.

Anyone see the Giants in that overtime win? Amazing ass game. Giants look solid. Eli looks good, he's becoming something.
 

wavejams007

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Bible_Belt said:
The Bucs' Chris Simms is the worst qb in the nfl. He just had two consecutive games with 3 picks and zero touchdowns.

I find the Vikings entertaining, Forbes recently valued them as the cheapest team in the NFL at 700-something million dollars. They have very little talent, but they are scrappy and well-coached, and have started 2-0.

I am a huge Buccs fan, and you wrote a complete understatement. The Buccs aren't bad, but are held back greatly because chris Simms cannot play. he throws too low, and makes the Buccs look ridiculous. And even sadder, Gruden stands behind him. We need a better QB.
 

MetalFortress

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40-7 Chargers. We were three minutes away from two shutouts in a row. I was mad when Tenn scored the cheap TD against the Charger backups, until I remembered that, hell, we scored 60 points in 2 games before anybody even scored ONE against us. Rivers has been awesome so far, but his first real test comes in two weeks.

It is good to be a Bolts fan!
 

doctoroxygen

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Chargers look scary good so far. I'm not a Rivers believer, but I don't know if anyone has to be with that front seven and LT in the backfield.
 

MetalFortress

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And MT (Michael Turner) as his backup. It seems LT is the speed guy who runs the opposing D ragged trying to chase him down, and MT is the power guy who simply blows through the already-tired defense like a speeding Volkswagen. The duo rushed for 200 yards yesterday, and almost 200 yards against the Raiders. With those two running wild, we could probably post a winning record even if Ryan Leaf was still the QB.
 

A-Unit

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Nothing shocks me, except how BADLY Carolina is doing. Anything that appears a LOCK isn't. Evidently Deshaun Foster, while he has the TENURE to be the main back, isn't MAIN back quality. Behind the same line in the same game, Williams did 3 times the damage. There will be a changing of the guard soon. They have too much talent there, and the stars have aligned for them THIS year to win. Not having SS worries me, b/c a team so dependent on one receiver to win is VERY one dimensional and does not portend to be a Superbowl caliber team.

Chicago looks great, and should keep it up better this year than last. The D is the same, and behind Grossman they have Griese. Grossman gives them upside, Griese gives them consistency and control. He can sling the rock, and his WR's aren't half bad...Muhammad, Berrian (3 year breakout year), and Mark Bradley. They at least have 3 competent RB's too, which is more important than 1 main starting back like an LJ, because if he goes down, so too does the run game.

SD looks good, and get Volek helps them keep progressing, though I'm sure they'd not shelve Rivers. They let Brees go. You don't sideline Rivers for 3 years, start him, then sit him, then start him. His confidence would be in the toilet. Play him and see what happens. Let him develop his confidence with receivers and understand the NFL gameplay pace.

TB IS bad. Their D, like the Pats, has been picked over. Sure, they have semblances of good D players, like Brooks and Barber, but there aren't the big name guys of yester-year like Sapps and Lynch in their prime. Not to menion, Caddy has to get his wheels back on, but the line is suffering mightily. Losing your starting guards hurts all over. If the D gets down, the Offense isn't up to speed yet to handle needing to come back.

Den will continue to BE bad, imo. There might be a cutler sighting if things get worse. The best thing the Pats do is eat mediocre QB's alive who make poor decisions, and Plummer fits that mold to a T. I think he allows at least 2 ints next sunday, or more, and a few fumbles from the pressure. They're not sure @ RB, yet, althought Tatum Bell IS putting up the stats to warrant ownership of the job. Rod Smith is too old to do it alone now, though he's good at receiving, he isn't Keyshawn-like even. And Walker, might have been a fluke a few years ago, coupled with a poor knee injury and learning a new playbook, I think people were too optimistic. TO and a few other elite guys are the only crop who can assimilate a book so fast, and despite not being perfect on routes, can still make plays happen. After that, their D wasn't good last year, it hasn't gotten better this year. I like DJ williams and Darrent Williams. Lynch is old. And the LB are serviceable, but not super starts. Champ is great, but he can't cover them all. They definately lose to teams like INDY, CIN, and maybe even the Pats.

Speaking of the Pats, they've never really been blow out teams. I'm concerned about their D to a point, but not having McGinest is OK by me. Our CB's are better this year than last, and many of the problem teams are WORSE. The Run D is great; no 100 yard games allowed. Pressure has been good, too. Not enough INT's or FF, but they'll come. Bruschi is there, and his leadership at least will anchor the D. Colvin is a beast and gets through untouched many times. The Offense will pick up, and I ask anyone to find a better group of Rb's than Maroney, Dillon, Faulk and Evans. ALL can play. ALL can produce, unlike a lot of teams. Even the dolphins, who were expected to be better don't have the kind of depth we do. At WR, we don't have a pure #1, but we never did. Branch and Givens normally were equal in stats. Having multiple receiving TE's, and now Gabriel, Jackson, Brown, Caldwell is, too, me great. It might not be SEXXy, but I'd rather a core of guys who can make plays, than only 1-2. That was the problem in Denver last year. They stopped most of the run, they stopped most of the big pass plays, but we couldn't move the ball b/c Dillon was injured AND Branch and Givens were the only guys who could receive. Outside of Brown, there wasn't anyone else. Watson was ok, but when the rush was brought, they needed him and graham to block. And to me, Branch/Givens aren't #1's, they complement a great #1, or are good AS A GROUP, but can't be a number, so don't pay number one money. I like the WR's more THIS year. My only concern will be the D, since they've losman and pennington, only mediocre qb's do quite well.

Pitt is worse. I'm happy for Roeth getting better, but their OFFENSE doesn't feel the same. It's not like they can turn and rely on someone DIFFERENT to make a play. Losing Randle El hurt them more than it benefited WAS getting him. And Bettis, well that goes without saying. When Parker couldn't get tough yards, Bettis always could. Nobody could tackle him. And that is true now. I say Haynes miss easy passes, and he's not Bettis. Miller is good, and as always so is Ward. Wilson is coming into his own, and so will Washington, but as a group, the D is good, but the offense isn't there right now. They've been set back this year.

Indy is a sham. I like how they're so fluid on Offense, and having Addai and Rhodes is great, but it's the same story every year. They can't do it. What makes it different this year? They lost Edge, gained Addai. He MIGHT work out, but to win the Superbowl they need BOTH. Peyton will be good for awhile, but I still think they'll have it tough against the better teams and better D's.

Atlanta could hit the superbowl. They did so much to upgrade the D. Vick is better, and even if he doesn't fit the mold of an NFL QB, they are not formatting the offense to HIM. Dunn and Norwood are just sick. They'll have 300 yards per game rushing no problem. When you have 3 guys who run 4.4's, the D is in trouble. His stable of WR only have to catch the ball when it's thrown, that's it, and they're all decent, although no true number ones. White, Jenkins, Crumpler, and Lelie, can catch 40 each and make vick a hero.

Seattle still puzzles me. It seems they want THIS year to be the year, but its disheatening to see an ELITE back like Alexander faulter and miss his guard so much. If he's to be the rushing champ, he can't fail against mediocre teams. That is what was great about Priest, he never faultered and was devastating in passing situations and running situations. He amazed me more than LJ, because you KNEW he'd always score and multiple times. It's even more ridiculous they couldn't make the SB with him. Sea's d is good. And should be good. The addition of Peterson helps Tatupu and they have some great pressure. It's a toss up as to which direction they go in.

The Giants are good, but Eli still has some growing pains. He can be ruffled a bit, and he's more of a playmaker than his brother, who's more of the typical offensive coordinator type. Peyton controls the offense, and Eli appears to BE a QB, though Peyton is better. Peyton's weapons have ALWAYS been great. Eli's are good, with Tiki and Burress and Shockey, when he isn't injured, penalized, or talking trash. The Giant D is good, but Philly had them wound up, which demonstrates their weaknesses, too. They might go far, but Eli is a year or 2 away from a SB run. Hopefully Tiki can hang in there or Jacobs will step up when the time comes.

Philly is good, very good. D took a hit with Kearse going down, but they're still solid. RB depth is great, and Westbrook MAKES plays like Donovan. They may not truly grind out the runs, but they certainly can score points and perhaps stay ahead of their D. I can't believe they lost to the Giants. Donovan is lucky, b/c he doesn't really have many WR's. Stallworth was HUGE. They wouldn't be 1-1 if not for that trade. BRown couldn't carry this team, and LJ and BW have had big enough games, and STILL lost 1 of them. In both games, Stallworth proved his worth AND STILL they didn't win. I can't imagine where they'd be. And it's not a case of TO, but it is that Brown (the rookie) isn't ready to make all the plays and catches he has to, otherwise he would. He's caught 3 passes in 2 games, and 2 td's. Wonderful, but not enough for them to consistently move the chains AND get down field. They'll do well for awhile, but I don't think we see them in the SB.

WAS is going NOWHERE. Even with Portis they'll be sad. In FF, they had Cooley going too high, and you could tell with ALL the wr's there it was a mess, moreover, Brunelle tailed off last year, and that's continued to NOW. They can't get ANY running going b/c they want Brunelle to beat them. In Football, you can't BUY a team.

DAL. They'll do OK, but the TO thing is stupid, and having Bledsoe can't ever be good. They SHOULD have a great offense, but I haven't seen it b/c Bledsoe doesn't make great decisions OR throws. Glenn, TO, Witten, Jones, Barber, and Fasano, ARE YOU KIDDING ME? They should be LIGHTING Up the score boards. That offense on PAPER is akin to Indy's, maybe BETTER. To is as good as Marvin Harrison, and Wayne and Glenn are much the same. Dallas has better TE's in Witten and Fasano, AND experienced RB's. The deficiency is with the LINE and the QB's.



I do think we could have a CHI vs NE superbowl. If their offense even gets 21 pts a game, 2 passing td's, 1 rushing td, or a few Fg's, nobody can top their Defense.



A-Unit
 

Bible_Belt

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The NFL wants parity among teams, and this year it does not appear that they are getting it. They might tweak the parity rules more, like making the cellar teams keep their draft picks instead of trading them away. Parity makes for close games and tight playoff races, which translate into more money for the league. Close games get better ratings than blowouts, and teams make more merchandising dollars when their playoff chances last until near the end of the season.
 

A-Unit

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I've heard that. They want to re-arrange the cap so that vets can stay on board with the drafting team, or any long-term team, without as much of a cap hit. In previous decades, guys would be kept on the same team, but with Free Agency, and cap-savy Gm's, people manage the cap to buy or overbuy players. We'll see what it does to the NFL. Personally I think poor ownership is the biggest killer of a teams potential.

Look at Oakland.
Look at Washington.
Look at TEN.
Look at Houston.
Look at DET. Millen sux. And the ford Family is very lax. 4 top offensive players in a row for 3 years straight?

Poor drafting, poor scouting, poor management, poor hiring of Coaches (I'm not labeling Kubiak, or Fisher, but HOU didn't want BUSH, who is CLEARLY 100x better than the next RB that early as compared to Mario Williams. Mario isn't 100x better than the nearest DE, even if you need one. Get one in the second round. And Tenn got Young, a poor choice, IMO @ QB.)

Parity, although they force it, is like trying to distribute wealth evenly in the world, and hoping ALL people live the same. We know people in the US have access to anything they desire (for the most part), yet only 5% ever make it in a given year. They can enforce the rules, but they can't force teams to properly manage the team or the cap, or hire talented coaches, or let the GM's draftly properly.

My contention regarding the PATS is, though they let Branch go, they weren't going to TIE up 8+ million in a WR, ine ONE PLAYER, in a PLAYER that doesn't materially effect the teams success. Rather, they'd pay high dollars for the QB and the lines, because THATS where the respective offense and defeneses emerge from. The Pats also will remain GOOD, just like PHILLY has for a decade or decades to come, because they are about the "team." To think the Pats fall off would be to think that Philly could/can/will, too, since I'd seen them with LESS talent and depth than the Pats. Also, we will have MORE cap space should any values arise, on top of MANY picks in this upcoming draft. 2 firsts, a 5th for patrick cobbs to PITT, and other picks for the loss of givens to tenn. They will remain good for awhile, because they constantly bring guys through the system each year, and don't tie up big money in positions that can't materially effect a team. How many games has TO played where his stats were phenomenal, YET, the team lost? Probably half his games. Even in week 1, TO was good, but Dallas LOST, so what good is a guy like that if the REST of the Team can't get it together? Not to mention, Branch isn't as good as TO, not even close. He won't catch as many balls with Hasselback now. His success was that he was not viewed as a number one, so he was open. That, and he's small and hates going over the middle. He's a santana moss, minus the tough-ness.


A-Unit
 

Bible_Belt

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Only recently when I read the Forbes ranking did I start to think of the NFL teams as investments. What those guys are really doing is selling team merchandise. That's where they make their money. The Forbes ranking is most influenced by annual merchandising revenue. The Redskins are the most expensive team. They sell a lot of t-shirts even when they are bad; the Cowboys are similar. Teams sell for 10-15 times their annual revenue, which by the standards of the stock market and p/e ratios is a very conservative investment.
 
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