Need Male Perspective: Relationship Going Well, But Something Feels Off

[BillyPilgrim]

Agreed with BE, her insecurity is driving your lack of desire. If you can find a gentle way to suggest therapy for her, do it.

OP look up "anxious preoccupied" attachment style. It will ring bells. Don't wade in too deep, because I can save you some time :the common advice for a chick like yours is therapy. She phucked around and found out, and subconcously makes new men pay for her past mistakes. Any relationship on her end is unsustainable unless she dates down, but she wants higher value men due to "high score" issues. (look up Desdinova's thread on high score theory). She's in a conundrum that could benefit from professional help.

Any of you guys looking to get into psychology, there's prob a lot of cash in treating these women lol.

 

[BeExcellent]

This is a great point and so true BE.

That said (and no disrespect to any of the men here) what a few men have told me is that they want and expect a woman to have sex with him within 3 dates but not with other men. Previous men.

They want to feel like her attraction and desire for HIM is so powerful and compelling, she just can't help herself.

That's the rationale in their minds; guys be honest is this true? A little? For those who care about body count.

Right. EVERY man wants that to be true but only for him. It is delusional. If most girls accomodate and desire the present man she is with? And many relationships fizzle around 2-3 months? And that is how you get a body count.

Listen. The man I dated before my husband I held off on sex (huge player, wanted to be sure....) so months later he tells me was uncertain for a long time about my interest level in him.....for months because I wasn't passionately jumping his bones right away. FFS sometimes you can't win for losing.....

Men have their quirky insecurities too. Welcome to the human condition.....

I read my husband better on that front and didn't make the same mistake. So yeah all that can be confusing for all involved....

The bigger issue is this girl's terrific insecurity. I used to never worry about whoever else a man I liked was dating. I knew I was hot and a great catch. I also knew the other chicks would blow themselves out of consideration by being insecure, jealous & controlling...and that was true even if the other girl was hotter or freakier in bed. I had unshakable confidence in both myself and the probability of the other women shooting themselves in the foot. So I was just patient, cool, easygoing and mysterious.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Okay, so we agree on that. Do you think I should leave her? Do you think they're all the same?

I think you have given a woman a status she has not earned.

What you choose to do with that is up to you.

I don't know her, I am only going on what you have said about her and your interactions with her.

I don't see how you go from seeing her that often to a more "appropriate" amount of time without things getting "weird" and her feeling something is off.

I'd just let things play out how they play out and then not make these mistakes with the next one.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Advice from the old lady:

Firstly welcome. Here are some thoughts.

Point 1: She has had other sexual partners. She cannot undo that. Its kinda funny on the one hand the madonna/w h o r e complex. Guys expect women to have sex within 3 dates or the girl is a prude....but if she does that she ends up with a body count. She can't change it and perhaps she's been somewhat straight about that, so if you judge on that there's really no way to recover.

Point 2: This is where the interactions fall off, and part of why she has a body count. She is very insecure. And her insecurity has become what pushes men away, which makes her that much more clingy. Its a self fulfilling prophesy in short order.....She is insecure, becomes clingy, guy wants space, she gets more insecure, guy drops her for being too suffocating. Sound familiar? She is attractive enough to bang but the insecurity is such a turn off after a awhile that the drama is not worth it.

Any of this ringing any bells?

Point 3: Your desire is lacking because her behavior is a turn off. The physical nature of sex itself only gets you so far. After a while you have to want to get closer and more connected to someone, and the woman needs to be attractive in her behavior for desire to deepen.

That is not what is going on with y'all. Nobody likes a stage 5 clinger. Furthermore, these are HER issues. She is insecure (and probably jealous too).....those behavioral patterns are always about the person exhibiting the behaviors (in other words NOT you.)

You probably don't want to feel like you are being unkind but her behavior is not going to suddenly improve (these are character flaws that affect her because of her low self esteem and her relationship history.) You cannot fix her. Think very carefully about whether it makes sense to continue.

You are having to escape her to a degree. Anytime you are trying to escape someone you are trying to get away rather than get closer.

Give that a think.

OP has caused a good portion of this himself tho by acting like they are married within 3 months of a relationship.

Way too much, way too soon.

 

[Gamisch]

Good women get snapped up by guys...the fact not one of those 20 guys tried to lock her down doesn't say much good about her...and if that's coming from her side as to why it didn't happen, even worse things about her

This is simply NOT true and we shouldn't spread this narrative as so-called " experts".

For all we know she is the best woman in the world, and yet dealt with 15 guys who felt there was "something better" around the corner.

3) This is also unavoidable I'm afraid. Men were not designed for monogamy ,so your attraction to any given girl, regardless of how hot she is, will decrease over time. This is especially true for guys with options.

I think he pointed that out in goodish Englisho.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

This is simply NOT true and we shouldn't spread this narrative as so-called " experts".

For all we know she is the best woman in the world, and yet dealt with 15 guys who felt there was "something better" around the corner.


I think he pointed that out in goodish Englisho.

Not really how most men work. 80% of men aren't looking for something better when they have something good.

Most can't even get something good, so when they find that, they act like they hit the jackpot.

 

[Gamisch]

Get used to it

Seriously, you s a man gotta fetuses to this. Women all around the globe will ve like this. Some men can't stand it, while others just love that shyte: some men love to constantly deal with a woman that "little brothers " them constantly.

You ALWAYS gotta wait with your evaluation till after at very least SIX MONTHS. And then yet another one after another 6ect. Untill you reach 2 years, you have no clear idea of who you're dealing with. May vary ofcourse but you get my point.

Finally, you're spending wy too much time with her too soon. The most dangerous thing about this is the moment when YOU feel like she's trustworthy nd the roles reverse: you might believe she is 100% down ,but yet SHE starts feeling less while you're completely locked into the relationship.

 

[Gamisch]

Not really how most men work. 80% of men aren't looking for something better when they have something good.

Most can't even get something good, so when they find that, they act like they hit the jackpot.

Arguably.

That's contradicting to the part I've bolded: that men (with options) are not too keen on monogamy. For us men it might be unbelievable, but for a woman it's a different story. Maybe she deal t with that mostly 20 percentile.

Way too simplistic to say that every woman with a handful of exes is a bad woman.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Point 1: She has had other sexual partners. She cannot undo that. Its kinda funny on the one hand the madonna/w h o r e complex. Guys expect women to have sex within 3 dates or the girl is a prude....but if she does that she ends up with a body count.

Not if she's selective about who she goes on dates with. The women with high body counts are invariably Chad chasers and carousel riders. A normal girl does not accumulate a 20+ body count by her early 20's.

 

[Clockwerk50]

Advice from the old lady:

Firstly welcome. Here are some thoughts.

Point 1: She has had other sexual partners. She cannot undo that. Its kinda funny on the one hand the madonna/w h o r e complex. Guys expect women to have sex within 3 dates or the girl is a prude....but if she does that she ends up with a body count. She can't change it and perhaps she's been somewhat straight about that, so if you judge on that there's really no way to recover.

Point 2: This is where the interactions fall off, and part of why she has a body count. She is very insecure. And her insecurity has become what pushes men away, which makes her that much more clingy. Its a self fulfilling prophesy in short order.....She is insecure, becomes clingy, guy wants space, she gets more insecure, guy drops her for being too suffocating. Sound familiar? She is attractive enough to bang but the insecurity is such a turn off after a awhile that the drama is not worth it.

Any of this ringing any bells?

Point 3: Your desire is lacking because her behavior is a turn off. The physical nature of sex itself only gets you so far. After a while you have to want to get closer and more connected to someone, and the woman needs to be attractive in her behavior for desire to deepen.

That is not what is going on with y'all. Nobody likes a stage 5 clinger. Furthermore, these are HER issues. She is insecure (and probably jealous too).....those behavioral patterns are always about the person exhibiting the behaviors (in other words NOT you.)

You probably don't want to feel like you are being unkind but her behavior is not going to suddenly improve (these are character flaws that affect her because of her low self esteem and her relationship history.) You cannot fix her. Think very carefully about whether it makes sense to continue.

You are having to escape her to a degree. Anytime you are trying to escape someone you are trying to get away rather than get closer.

Give that a think.

Sadly, if OP breaks up with her, the same behavioral pattern will likely repeat with the next guy. People who are deeply unhappy or insecure tend to attach quickly and intensely. Unless she addresses the root of her insecurity, those same claws will grip the next relationship as well.

 

[Bingo-Player]

Last point, and probably the most concerning one for me:
Because we see each other so often and talk constantly, I’ve noticed a significant drop in sexual desire on my side.
Honestly, at 25, that raises questions for me. The attraction is clearly lower than it was at the beginning.

This is a common human condition once you have enough exposure to anyone the novelty effect begins to wear off

Because men are so physically and visually stimulated a woman's beauty or "look" it has an extreme novel effect to it

Its why so many men have wondering eyes, why the P*rn industry is worth billions and why sex work is the oldest profession in the world

Unless you are a very inexperienced man at some stage you will need to accept the woman you choose to be with in a long term relationship is eventually going to lose her sexual appeal its inevitable and a lot of NPC's that believe in true love will fall over themselves to tell you otherwise but thats the reality

 

[pipeman84]

This is a great point and so true BE.

That said (and no disrespect to any of the men here) what a few men have told me is that they want and expect a woman to have sex with him within 3 dates but not with other men. Previous men.

They want to feel like her attraction and desire for HIM is so powerful and compelling, she just can't help herself.

That's the rationale in their minds; guys be honest is this true? A little? For those who care about body count.

That rationale doesn't work for guys with at least average intelligence and self esteem.
Firstly, if the woman looks like she's been around the block, the fact she has sex within 3 dates is nothing special, is just part of the pattern. It doesn't matter what she says, ie: I've never done that before.
Secondly, even if the woman says it or you've heard that she has no exes, if she has sex within 3 dates is nothing to feel proud about. On the contrary, it probably is a big letdown, because you thought you've finally found a good one, and it turns out she's low quality as the rest.
Thirdly, a guy wants her to feel attraction and desire for HIM that is powerful and compelling, but if he's of at least average intelligence as mentioned, he's aware that she can't possible know HIM within 3 dates.

 

[CornbreadFed]

First point: she’s had over 20 partners, both serious and casual.

End it based on this alone

 

[quentin]

End it based on this alone

WHY ?

 

[Barrister]

OP,

Time to "next" this woman and move on.

If she is early 20s, then having a body count of 20+ is kind of ridiculous. This is a huge red flag in and of itself.

You aren't digging her, that much is clear. This is a lost cause. Here is a piece of advice as a guy who didn't become red-pilled until his 30s and also did not experience true abundance until he did (and also got divorced from "the one" in that time-frame): while you may feel like the clock is ticking for you to get hitched at 25 -- it isn't. In fact, your late 20s and early 30s when you've gotten some experience and are out of your puppy dog stage will truly let you see success in dating. Don't pull the trigger now on someone like this where you clearly are just settling to be with someone.

You may say you aren't interested in the DJ lifestyle. That is fine too. However, use your high value to attract a good woman in that case. This one doesn't qualify clearly as you wouldn't be posting this if you did not already have doubts. And I have learned when you have doubts, that is your gut telling you to abort the mission. Onto the next, brother.

 

[BeExcellent]

Not if she's selective about who she goes on dates with. The women with high body counts are invariably Chad chasers and carousel riders. A normal girl does not accumulate a 20+ body count by her early 20's.

Agree with you. But that requires high self esteem & self respect, which this girlfriend seems to have neither.

I was explaining, not excusing .

 

[Doctor Europeo]

WHY ?

It’s something that stays in the back of my mind and isn’t easy for me to completely ignore.

A normal girl does not accumulate a 20+ body count by her early 20's.

Asked and answered. Even your own gut is telling you this is a huge red flag.

You claim to be 25 (even though your profile says 27). At your age, it cant be that hard to find a girl with less than four body count.

Read this thread, a lot of advice may apply to your situation

I need help regarding my gf and relationship

Hello forum. I have been doing a long distance relationship now for around 11 months. We were both virgins when we met. She was very inexperienced when it came to men, I was her first bf and she had never really talked to men. During our relationship I have made countless egregious errors...

www.sosuave.net

 

[crowolf]

First point: she’s had over 20 partners, both serious and casual.

I probably shouldn't say it that bluntly but, brother, she is used up.

I live a very independent lifestyle, and suddenly feeling “obligated” to report what I’m doing feels uncomfortable to me.

You should communicate this with her. Probably normal if her clinginess is too much, and it's all coming from insecurities, of course.

Because we see each other so often and talk constantly, I’ve noticed a significant drop in sexual desire on my side.

Combined with the previous factor, it might have something to do with attachment theory. Perhaps she is anxiously attached, and you are an avoidant. This is why you get turned off by closeness. I don't know if that's the case, but it's simply a suggestion.

Maybe you have to add more variety to your s3x. Or she doesn't turn you on anymore. Or you need to feel the primal urge of "hunting". Or maybe your libido is low because of other health factors, stress, or whatever.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Arguably.

That's contradicting to the part I've bolded: that men (with options) are not too keen on monogamy. For us men it might be unbelievable, but for a woman it's a different story. Maybe she deal t with that mostly 20 percentile.

Way too simplistic to say that every woman with a handful of exes is a bad woman.

Yeah, of course...but even they get tired of dealing with the same women who aren't worth a damn other than their looks eventually and can get one-itis for a woman that checks a lot of other boxes the others don't.

 

[quentin]

Asked and answered. Even your own gut is telling you this is a huge red flag.

You claim to be 25 (even though your profile says 27). At your age, it cant be that hard to find a girl with less than four body count.

Read this thread, a lot of advice may apply to your situation

I need help regarding my gf and relationship

Hello forum. I have been doing a long distance relationship now for around 11 months. We were both virgins when we met. She was very inexperienced when it came to men, I was her first bf and she had never really talked to men. During our relationship I have made countless egregious errors...

www.sosuave.net

I just read the entire thread and I can't find any advice that helps me, bro...