Need Male Perspective: Relationship Going Well, But Something Feels Off

[quentin]

OP,

Time to "next" this woman and move on.

If she is early 20s, then having a body count of 20+ is kind of ridiculous. This is a huge red flag in and of itself.

You aren't digging her, that much is clear. This is a lost cause. Here is a piece of advice as a guy who didn't become red-pilled until his 30s and also did not experience true abundance until he did (and also got divorced from "the one" in that time-frame): while you may feel like the clock is ticking for you to get hitched at 25 -- it isn't. In fact, your late 20s and early 30s when you've gotten some experience and are out of your puppy dog stage will truly let you see success in dating. Don't pull the trigger now on someone like this where you clearly are just settling to be with someone.

You may say you aren't interested in the DJ lifestyle. That is fine too. However, use your high value to attract a good woman in that case. This one doesn't qualify clearly as you wouldn't be posting this if you did not already have doubts. And I have learned when you have doubts, that is your gut telling you to abort the mission. Onto the next, brother.

I agree with you in general, but why on earth is having so many partners such a big deal? I myself am over 70...

I know it's not great, I'm aware of that, but what I want to know is why.

That said, I also agree that being with someone just for the sake of being with someone isn't good, but at the moment, I'm not sure about that.

 

[Doctor Europeo]

I agree with you in general, but why on earth is having so many partners such a big deal? I myself am over 70...

You are trying to measure men and women with the same yardstick, it doesnt work like that. Femin@zis will say its a double standard. Its not a double standard, its a different standard (small but very important difference).

You could go to a nightclub and scream "Yo! Any girl here wants to fock me?" That wont work. On the other hand, 99.9% of guys in there that night are horny and trying to get laid. A woman would have zero difficulty getting sex if she wanted.

You have to earn getting laid (game, seducation, etc). A woman can get laid whenever she wants, that´s why her body count matters. Women are the gatekeepers of sex, men are the gatekeepers of relationships.

 

[quentin]

You are trying to measure men and women with the same yardstick, it doesnt work like that. Femin@zis will say its a double standard. Its not a double standard, its a different standard (small but very important difference).

You could go to a nightclub and scream "Yo! Any girl here wants to fock me?" That wont work. On the other hand, 99.9% of guys in there that night are horny and trying to get laid. A woman would have zero difficulty getting sex if she wanted.

You have to earn getting laid (game, seducation, etc). A woman can get laid whenever she wants, that´s why her body count matters. Women are the gatekeepers of sex, men are the gatekeepers of relationships.

I know all that, man, I've been interested in this for a while now... I want to understand the deeper meaning of things;

I know it leads to comparisons, that it taints the psyche,

but that's all...

 

[Doctor Europeo]

I just read the entire thread and I can't find any advice that helps me, bro...

He would be better off without her. Same as you...

 

[BackInTheGame78]

You are trying to measure men and women with the same yardstick, it doesnt work like that. Femin@zis will say its a double standard. Its not a double standard, its a different standard (small but very important difference).

You could go to a nightclub and scream "Yo! Any girl here wants to fock me?" That wont work. On the other hand, 99.9% of guys in there that night are horny and trying to get laid. A woman would have zero difficulty getting sex if she wanted.

You have to earn getting laid (game, seducation, etc). A woman can get laid whenever she wants, that´s why her body count matters. Women are the gatekeepers of sex, men are the gatekeepers of relationships.

Biologically, women carry a FAR greater risk for having sex and potentially becoming pregnant, having to go thru 9 months of hell on their body and then having to raise offspring without the father being around than the male who can go out and impregnate 5 women in one night if they choose...

The risk to a woman is far far more costly and as such nature has made them very selective in who they choose to mate with and take that risk with.

Women these days attempt to override the way nature works by trying to logic that they can do whatever they want because it's their choice, but it's kind of like arguing that you can do what you want and be an alcoholic or drug addict because it's your choice...you are right, it is, but then don't be surprised when the results are disastrous.

 

[quentin]

Biologically, women carry a FAR greater risk for having sex and potentially becoming pregnant, having to go thru 9 months of hell on their body and then having to raise offspring without the father being around than the male who can go out and impregnate 5 women in one night if they choose...

The risk to a woman is far far more costly and as such nature has made them very selective in who they choose to mate with and take that risk with.

Women these days attempt to override the way nature works by trying to logic that they can do whatever they want because it's their choice, but it's kind of like arguing that you can do what you want and be an alcoholic or drug addict because it's your choice...you are right, it is, but then don't be surprised when the results are disastrous.

So for you, it's mainly on a biological level?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

So for you, it's mainly on a biological level?

No, it's on a "that's how nature works level" and when people try to act in ways that go against the way nature intended, nothing good comes from it.

Think we have thousands of historical examples to choose from in many different areas.

 

[Barrister]

I agree with you in general, but why on earth is having so many partners such a big deal? I myself am over 70...

I know it's not great, I'm aware of that, but what I want to know is why.

That said, I also agree that being with someone just for the sake of being with someone isn't good, but at the moment, I'm not sure about that.

It isn't a big deal if you are just going to have a casual relationship with this woman. If you are thinking of wifing her up or making some other commitment of the same flavor to her, then it is a very big deal. Her ability to "pair-bond" is directly influenced by the number of sexual partners she has had. 20+ is significant for a woman. It certainly would affect multiple facets of your relationship with her.

 

[BeExcellent]

So I have a couple of questions for @quentin since he has asked the board for feedback. Please understand OP that we are trying to help you and also note that nobody here has any emotional attachment to her (or to you for that matter), we are taking the situation you told us about at face value and advising you based on the information you provided.

I'll also say this (stating what I find obvious but maybe not every reader would).... If you have a body count of 70 and you are only mid-20s then I can reasonably assume that a.) you are a good looking/attractive man and b.) you have a decent working knowledge of women, at least insofar as getting them into bed goes....

BUT. Initial seduction/getting laid is a different skillset than being in a LTR, as you are seeing. And if you are a good looking dude then your level of attractiveness is going to bring out a woman's insecurities. So it becomes really important that you are in a relationship with a woman who feels she deserves you and is worthy of you (and vice versa) intrinsically.

If her insecurities are such that she cannot be "cool" and she has a need to smother you & wants you to appraise her of your location at all times? This is not good.

Now. It becomes a little more understandable if you have gotten caught lying to her or something, but even then she should not cling or control. A person with a solid sense of self & intrinsic value would distance themselves rather than cling in such a situation.

I agree with @BackInTheGame78 too because you allowed her to spend WAY too much time with you WAY too soon. This kills the mystery and intrigue a new interaction needs to develop.

People, including you, fall in love in someone's abscence. I know that seems counter intuitive but it isn't.

So I assume from your post that you might kinda be tiring of the meaninglessness of constant new girls month in & month out. It gets tiresome after a while according to every player/playboy I've ever known (and I have known many, most of whom were/are friends & acquaintences)....but I also dated that archetype pretty exclusively throughout my adult life & married 2 of this type, LTRs with several others....

Read up on why promiscious behavior is hard on the psyche of both men and women. There is a good amount of peer reviewed psychological research on the topic, and from various philosophical viewpoints.

Essentially people become jaded after a while. Men are not immune to this because men have a need for connection too, although I agree that biologically women have far greater risk associated with promicuous behavior...but like it or not a great deal of that is mitigated by birth control in the last 60 or so years. Men benefit (if its a benefit might be up for debate) from greater access to sex with women, and women are obviously the other 50% of that equation. So women are having more sex than before birth control. Obviously.

We now have 3 generations who have come of age in the era of birth control (with the associated ability to exercise greater sexual freedoms for women), and so I don't know that it is realistic to expect young women to be as chaste as our great grandparents were.

So if nobody has answered your question, what exactly is your question?

There is no perfect woman out there. You could be disappointed in the lack of experience a virgin has, you could find a virgin has her own hangups or may not want a man with as many partners as you for example.

My son has a body count of 2. He married a girl who was a virgin. That relationship is very solid, but it has not been perfect either. They are 23/22 with a baby and another on the way and are devout Catholics.

So if we as a collective have not addressed your question, then what are you expecting?

If you want an answer that lines up with whatever your bias happens to be, and the board did not agree with you...then why are you asking at all?

It seems to me you have gotten thoughtful responses from many men here (and a couple of women) with more life experience than you. Not that we know everything - we don't. We also don't know all the details beyond what you chose to share, and I think everyone finds your concerns valid....

You will likely be able to find another girl without too much issue, but of course people are multifaceted, but I'd caution you against settling if you already have these concerns.

There is such a thing as opportunity cost.

 

[Sega Genesis]

You aren't digging her, that much is clear.

^^This was my point as well (different words). I mean like what's the point? Your attraction and sexual desire have dropped significantly after only three months which is a very short time frame in the grand scheme.

Her insecurity, low self-esteem etc that led to her becoming so clingy and suffocating is not going to get better, not without therapy anyway.

As someone else said, she's anxious attachment and you may be an avoidant to a certain extent; for some reason these two types are often drawn to each other initially but it can become somewhat toxic in short order for obvious reasons that you're experiencing now.

 

[Gamisch]

You are trying to measure men and women with the same yardstick, it doesnt work like that. Femin@zis will say its a double standard. Its not a double standard, its a different standard (small but very important difference).

You could go to a nightclub and scream "Yo! Any girl here wants to fock me?" That wont work. On the other hand, 99.9% of guys in there that night are horny and trying to get laid. A woman would have zero difficulty getting sex if she wanted.

You have to earn getting laid (game, seducation, etc). A woman can get laid whenever she wants, that´s why her body count matters. Women are the gatekeepers of sex, men are the gatekeepers of relationships.

I get that but let's turn it around for a moment;

Imagine going to the club on let's say Friday and Saturday, and at the end of those days you've been approached FIVE HUNDRED TIMES. Or 200. By all.kinds of men: by the hunchback of notre dame till a hybrid of Drake and Leo , rich poor white black small tall, and everything in between.

And that's just a WEEKEND. Realistically, such a woman might've dated 0,00 some percent of all the offers she got and YET the narrative remains she is a sloot..this all is assuming she doesn't use OLD. I think most women will rack up these numbers in their younger years. Even I as a man been through countless numbers of "3 to 6 months " relationships.


Just food for thought...

 

[Gamisch]

I just read the entire thread and I can't find any advice that helps me, bro...

Because eventually only time will tell...I've had many women that would be great for me but yet I wanted to "further explore the market ". Made me lose some women that would've POSSIBLY spare me from tons of bs that the other women did gave me.

I think you are the type that will also learn the hard way...and that's not meant to diss you; it's simply life. Perhaps you need like 5 similar experiences to really be able to know what type of woman you need.


You want an answer? Let her go. Be upfront and tell her you feel suffocating, wanna explore more, aren't that attracted to her ect..let her be with a man who looks for the same she looks for. Will you regret this? I geuss you might...again time will tell.

 

[Prepostereax]

I'm guessing that the unspoken question is

"How do I salvage this?"

..the answer is:

It's much easier to fall into a fresh relationship, than to extricate from one gone sour.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I'm guessing that the unspoken question is

"How do I salvage this?"

..the answer is:

It's much easier to fall into a fresh relationship, than to extricate from one gone sour.

It would be like asking "how do I put the egg back in its shell?" After you crack it open...

 

[Doctor Europeo]

I think most women will rack up these numbers in their younger years.

Yes, I agree, key word being "most". He can and should do better.

 

[Clockwerk50]

I'm guessing that the unspoken question is

"How do I salvage this?"

..the answer is:

It's much easier to fall into a fresh relationship, than to extricate from one gone sour.

To be frank, I don’t think anything is broken right now since I’m assuming the woman isn’t aware of all these issues. I agree it’s moving too fast, but at this point, it’s all covert contracts.

If OP has such a high body count, I’m assuming this behavior comes from the fact that he actually wants a relationship, otherwise, his actions don’t make sense. Currently, if he struggles with her behavior or with difficult conversations, he’s either not ready for a relationship, he doesn't know his value, or this woman isn’t the right one for him. It’s really that simple.

 

[Barrister]

Yes, I agree, key word being "most". He can and should do better.

And to be honest, most women are serial monogamists in their early 20s - a “high” body count shouldn’t happen THAT quickly. The fact this chick does isn’t a red flag but more of a flashing red light with sirens going off.

 

[quentin]

Because eventually only time will tell...I've had many women that would be great for me but yet I wanted to "further explore the market ". Made me lose some women that would've POSSIBLY spare me from tons of bs that the other women did gave me.

I think you are the type that will also learn the hard way...and that's not meant to diss you; it's simply life. Perhaps you need like 5 similar experiences to really be able to know what type of woman you need.


You want an answer? Let her go. Be upfront and tell her you feel suffocating, wanna explore more, aren't that attracted to her ect..let her be with a man who looks for the same she looks for. Will you regret this? I geuss you might...again time will tell.

I agree with your answer!

 

[quentin]

To be frank, I don’t think anything is broken right now since I’m assuming the woman isn’t aware of all these issues. I agree it’s moving too fast, but at this point, it’s all covert contracts.

If OP has such a high body count, I’m assuming this behavior comes from the fact that he actually wants a relationship, otherwise, his actions don’t make sense. Currently, if he struggles with her behavior or with difficult conversations, he’s either not ready for a relationship, he doesn't know his value, or this woman isn’t the right one for him. It’s really that simple.

That's really interesting. What do you mean by “my value”? My best friend and his girlfriend often say that to me.

Maybe I lack self-confidence.

 

[RangerMIke]

Here is the best advice I can give:

I do not like the terms "red flags" and "green flags" because they imply a general rule set by others. The only things that matters is what any single man likes or doesn't like. One man might not give any thought at all to the fact she has had a lot of partners: another man might not like this at all... it all depends on what you can live with.

No one, and I mean NO ONE is perfect for any one man. Everything in life is a compromise, but you should never compromise on what you consider really important. The little things, sure as long as your partner is willing to compromise as well. But understand that even the little things can become BIG over time.... it's just the way things are.

The OP mentioned the fact his GF has a lot of partners bothers him, it is unlikely he will change, and this will always bother him, so for him, that's a problem. For me... well this wouldn't bother me since I likewise have been with many women, and I would be a hypocrite if this bugged me.

The OP mentioned that he is noticing some things that indicate his GF is controlling. This would bother me, I run screaming from any efforts to control my life... this is a BIG problem for me. But I know a lot of men that don't mind at all checking in with their GFs... and this would be okay I suppose as long as she is willing to do the same with you.

The reason why many here are not giving advice is because no one here can decide what is best for the OP. We don't life his life, we do not know his values. We don't know this woman, we do not know her motivations.

The best general advice I can give any man is simple. Be the best version possible of yourself, understand who they are and what they want, know your screening criteria (things you cannot live with), know your evaluative criteria (things you might not like but what you can live with under certain circumstances) and what you want. You add up what you want, then do the emotional math and start subtracting the evaluative criteria, and at the end, you are in the positive you can make it work. Keep making an effort to date, go out with as many women as you can and you will eventually find someone that fits... if you never find her... well that's okay because it is better to be alone than chained to someone that makes you miserable.

Finally understand it's not JUST the man's call... you cannot control women; they are going to do what they do... you cannot force her to compromise she has to be willing to do this without coercion because she feels you are worth it. If at any time the woman starts to pull away, you just have to let her go, for many men this is really fvcking hard and emotional self-control is your friend.