Did your wife/ex-wife change after kids?

sazc

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I think the basic difference is that for the woman, sex either is a chore or degenerates into one. That's the unspoken, but underlying implication I got from sazc's posts before she started agreeing somewhat with you guys. So sex doesn't cause enjoyment and stress relief, it just further causes resentment and discontent. It's another chore she knows she has to do to keep it together (or in cases like with your wife, knows she doesn't have to do). If sex was something she wanted to have because it makes her feel better and brings her closer to you to work out the relationship, then sex would have been part of the solution to the problems... not be the problem.
I've never thought about sex as a chore. Not sure why that's being attributed to what I've said, except it helps your case.

Tunnel vision isn't going to solve anything but have fun with that
 

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highSpeed

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I think the basic difference is that for the woman, sex either is a chore or degenerates into one. That's the unspoken, but underlying implication I got from sazc's posts before she started agreeing somewhat with you guys. So sex doesn't cause enjoyment and stress relief, it just further causes resentment and discontent. It's another chore she knows she has to do to keep it together (or in cases like with your wife, knows she doesn't have to do). If sex was something she wanted to have because it makes her feel better and brings her closer to you to work out the relationship, then sex would have been part of the solution to the problems... not be the problem.

And this is more speculation, but maybe it comes back to the reasons why each gender is likelier to commit. Women can have sex whenever they want, they've probably had much more of it than you have, and probably with hotter guys than you. When she commits, it's primarily because you can provide her with some tangible object or individual, rather than reciprocal, emotion - kids, money, security. Men may be more likely to commit because they want good sex and bonding in of themselves. Again, this is just in general and speculation though. I am also tempted to simply say that dumb, selfish and crazy people create dumb, selfish and crazy relationships... but in cases where that doesn't apply, the rest may.
While I agree with you, to me, this is a sad outlook. If that's the case, which it always comes back to, there's not much reason for a guy to actually comitt to such a thing in today's modern climate. If the long arm of the law can separate you from half of your resources simply because you created another human being with someone, it's a caustic climate for a man to have kids in. If it was a "you pay half, I pay half. you don't get half my crap simply because I married you" type of situation, then marriage is worth considering. Women get lazy, entitled and see sex as a chore. I don't even want to have sex with someone who sees it as a chore but the horniness level is too tempting sometimes to resist.
 

highSpeed

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I've never thought about sex as a chore. Not sure why that's being attributed to what I've said, except it helps your case.

Tunnel vision isn't going to solve anything but have fun with that
Lol, you're funny, you make every excuse why the relationship is the man's fault or flat out blame the man and then tell other people they have tunnel vision.
 

AttackFormation

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I've never thought about sex as a chore. Not sure why that's being attributed to what I've said, except it hey your case.

Tunnel vision isn't going to solve anything but have fun with that
You may not have consciously thought of it yourself, but that's the implication I got you were projecting onto hS's wife. "She doesn't feel like having sex because of X reasons". This implies that sex is something she has to gather herself to put up with, rather than something that helps her put up with the rest of life. That doesn't make sense unless she is in an abusive or neglectful relationship. But, or rather so... that means the problem here is not what hS has to do or can do to make his wife feel like having sex with him. The problem is intimacy was never the reason why she got him to commit to her in the first place.
 

highSpeed

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You may not have consciously thought of it yourself, but that's the implication I got you were projecting onto hS's wife. "She doesn't feel like having sex because of X reasons". This implies that sex is something she has to gather herself to put up with, rather than something that helps her put up with the rest of life. That doesn't make sense unless she is in an abusive or neglectful relationship. But, or rather so... that means the problem here is not what hS has to do or can do to make his wife feel like having sex with him. The problem is intimacy was never the reason why she got him to commit to her in the first place.
Very nicely put but now you've made me sad :)

She's never been abused in any way. I've busted my hump trying to provide and be present.
 
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AttackFormation

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While I agree with you, to me, this is a sad outlook. If that's the case, which it always comes back to, there's not much reason for a guy to actually comitt to such a thing in today's modern climate. If the long arm of the law can separate you from half of your resources simply because you created another human being with someone, it's a caustic climate for a man to have kids in. If it was a "you pay half, I pay half. you don't get half my crap simply because I married you" type of situation, then marriage is worth considering. Women get lazy, entitled and see sex as a chore. I don't even want to have sex with someone who sees it as a chore but the horniness level is too tempting sometimes to resist.
Well I hope I'm wrong, but I don't feel like putting my and any childrens' lives at stake at some point to find out. The last thing I would want to do is risk giving my children a fvcked childhood, and you cannot control that outcome (women take this risk too). When you don't want to have sex with a woman but do it anyway out of starvation, it feels better to just abstain rather than have it... I've regretted it every time I didn't really like her. And that's just from what I've experienced so far. I haven't even experienced what "chore sex" is like, but it must be even worse.

There are two reasons why I could see myself committing... scarcity-fueled hormone blinders, or being absolutely sure that her primary reasons to commit are the same as mine: harmony, bonding and lust. The work you do on your life is what at least helps you avoid the first possibility, and either stay single or happen upon the second.
 
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mrgoodstuff

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I dont agree its all about sex, but sex does help a keeping the couple closer and more intimate.


Was not having sex with ex but its not the main reason i left, its the lack of respect and how she was treating me


Now sex is still not the no 1 reason i want to date. Still its a plus and it will make.me lower my standard if ik i can get it
Its very hard to impossible for her to have sex with you if she doesnt respect you. She will lose respect if you allow her to shut you down and whine about it.
 

AttackFormation

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Its very hard to impossible for her to have sex with you if she doesnt respect you. She will lose respect if you allow her to shut you down and whine about it.
The fastest way I can imagine to make a woman lose her lust for you, is for you to show that she has power over you. Whether it's emotionally or in a material situation.

That's what led to by far the most harsh rejection I've taken in my life. And it happened before I even met her, simply because I showed what I was willing to do, the exposed situation I was willing to put myself in to see her and give it a shot. By the time we met it was already over, and I knew in the back of my mind from her reaction to what I did that it would be.
 

mrgoodstuff

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The fastest way I can imagine to make a woman lose her lust for you, is for you to show that she has power over you. Whether it's emotionally or in a material situation.

That's what led to by far the most harsh rejection I've taken in my life. And it happened before I even met her, simply because I showed what I was willing to do, the exposed situation I was willing to put myself in to see her and give it a shot. By the time we met it was already over, and from her reaction before... I already knew it.
Explain in details about the situation?.

Some of us have shown our love interest or our wives the depth of our love and committment.

Alot of the things i learn here and harden up on is in hopes some of it can be translated tk relationships to jumpstart desire, interest and lust. To affect change and direction. To deal with situations.
 
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AttackFormation

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Explain in details about the situation?.

Some of us have shown our love interest or our wives the depth of our love and committment.

Alot of the things i learn here and harden up on is in hopes some of it can be translated tk relationships to jumpstart desire, interest and lust. To affect change and direction. To deal with situations.
Well highSpeed shows by example that you can talk about this stuff, so yeah I can I guess...

Here you go. I don't really want to read it again myself, but I suppose I will if there's something you wonder about. And by the way, to give you some context before you start reading... here's a clip of her from before that post...
 

sazc

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Lol, you're funny, you make every excuse why the relationship is the man's fault or flat out blame the man and then tell other people they have tunnel vision.
Over sensitive much?
 

highSpeed

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Its very hard to impossible for her to have sex with you if she doesnt respect you. She will lose respect if you allow her to shut you down and whine about it.
When you have a financial and emotional gun held to your head every day, there's not much to dig the heels in with, is there? Not unless you're willing to walk away from everything
 

mrgoodstuff

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When you have a financial and emotional gun held to your head every day, there's not much to dig the heels in with, is there? Not unless you're willing to walk away from everything
You have tools:
1. Attention
2. Self image and appearance
3. Be social
4. Female competition
5. CHEAT - many times the energy draws them back. You dont throw it in their face.
6. Leave
7. Can spend time around other couples who are having sex
8. Social proofing

Theres alot that can be done before pulling the plug. Our DJ and "game" and communication comes into play.
 
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R

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I've never thought about sex as a chore. Not sure why that's being attributed to what I've said, except it helps your case.

Tunnel vision isn't going to solve anything but have fun with that
He is speaking a very real truth. Keep in mind we aren’t talking about you. Because of the feminine collective thought process a woman continually takes everything as an affront to herself when talking about a woman you don’t even know. As if we don’t understand. It’s quite tiring and utterly predictable. Laughable actually. Science calls this solipsism. It is very real.

DESIRE wains for the husband/provider. A single mom will dump that baby with her mother to get her fuks so fast a man’s head will spin. Yet won’t give a half hour twice a week for a husband. It’s no DESIRE. Women just don’t turn on that way.

You jumped on me once or whomever it was, for calling this “sex rationing”
This is exactly what it is. This is proven beyond all contestation. There is no defending argument.

So what happens with “sex rationing”?
This is an interesting phenomena. A man confronting that his power has been circumvented by the state, he now has a lifetime liability, he falls in love with that child, his only recourse is to continue to invest his time and production.

A woman then rations the sex enough that it keeps him hanging on, keeps him providing. There is no real desire there. She may be horney during her ovulation cycle and thus he gets sex a couple of times a month and as time goes on, less.

This continual investment drains him of life and testosterone. There’s no reward. There’s no end game for him. He plays the game out of social and legal pressures. This is not a complaint but a simple economic calculation.

No amount of talking will make her desire return. He is now the provider. He is cucked Into a world where his idealistic version of happiness and love are always just out of reach. So he works harder. What he needs to know and this can’t be overstated, he will never receive what he feels he is deserving of for his hard work and diligence. It is a LIE perpetuated by the feminine imperative.

The enslavement of men to support, without question, the imperatives of the woman based on social and feminine directives. A man MUST remove himself from the imperative to a place of his own acceptance and happiness. A man gets his most happiness from overcoming his obstacles and winning. A woman is irrelevant. Until he is fully unplugged he can never be his most attractive self.
 

mrgoodstuff

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He is speaking a very real truth. Keep in mind we aren’t talking about you. Because of the feminine collective thought process a woman continually takes everything as an affront to herself when talking about a woman you don’t even know. As if we don’t understand. It’s quite tiring and utterly predictable. Laughable actually.

DESIRE wains for the husband/provider. A single mom will dump that baby with her mother to get her fuks so fast a man’s head will spin. Yet won’t give a half hour twice a week for a husband. It’s no DESIRE. Women just don’t turn on that way.

You jumped on me once or whomever it was, for calling this “sex rationing”
This is exactly what it is. This is proven beyond all contestation. There is no defending argument.

So what happens with “sex rationing”?
This is an interesting phenomena. A man confronting that his power has been circumvented by the state, he now has a lifetime liability, he falls in love with that child, his only recourse is to continue to invest his time and production.

A woman then rations the sex enough that it keeps him hanging on, keeps him providing. There is no real desire there. She may be horney during her ovulation cycle and thus he gets sex a couple of times a month and as time goes on, less.

This continual investment drains him of life and testosterone. There’s no reward. There’s no end game for him. He plays the game out of social and legal pressures. This is not a complaint but a simple economic calculation.

No amount of talking will make her desire return. He is now the provider. He is cucked Into a world where his idealistic version of happiness and love are always just out of reach. So he works harder. What he needs to know and this can’t be overstated, he will never receive what he feels he is deserving of for his hard work and diligence. It is a LIE perpetuated by the feminine imperative.

The enslavement of men to support, without question, the imperatives of the woman based on social and feminine directives. A man MUST remove himself from the imperative to a place of his own acceptance and happiness. A man gets his most happiness from overcoming his obstacles and winning. A woman is irrelevant. Until he is fully unplugged he can never be his most attractive self.
All of it isnt biological. Alot of it is group think. There was a day when women put out whether they want to or not. The current group think is she doesnt have to if she doestnt FEEL like it and the collective will support her starving her man for months or years. They are even pushing sex is not love to trivialize the sex part of the relationship. This is the current programming underway. Also wives today are intent on control and WINNING against their husbands. So the cvcking is part of that strategy because its literally guaranteed empowerment.

My thing is we should be advanced at social interactions and PEOPLE ad DJs, players and participants in the "game". The skills acquired should allow us to thrive in hardships.

We need to discuss how the skills translate to relationships.
 
R

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All of it isnt biological. Alot of it is group think. There was a day when women put out whether they want to or not.
This is false data. “Group Think” IS the product of the feminine imperative. It has all its roots in biology. To think otherwise would be to squander around in the mud.

If it’s true that emotions guide a woman’s decisions in many areas of her life, then these emotions are endocrine system driven. This is science. If it’s not true, then the discussion is over and much of what we teach here is false data and all of us can point it out easily in examples every day.

The feeling comes first, then the action based on that feeling. Then the rationalization must follow...otherwise she is a terrible person.
So she MUST locate, identify and even make-up flaws in a man to make it so she is not a terrible person and completely justifiable in that action she previously did based on a feeling/emotion.

You are applying male linear thinking to your formula and consideration concerning this issue. She is going to act on all her feelings freely now because society is no longer branding her as a bad person.

The feelings, actions and justifications programming has ALWAYS been in her. The feminine imperative has now made it safe for her to express it openly.

This, at the present point in time, is irreversible. You or I or even our great grand children will be feminine imperative slaves if they are male.
 

AttackFormation

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All of it isnt biological. Alot of it is group think. There was a day when women put out whether they want to or not. The current group think is she doesnt have to if she doestnt FEEL like it and the collective will support her starving her man for months or years. They are even pushing sex is not love to trivialize the sex part of the relationship. This is the current programming underway. Also wives today are intent on control and WINNING against their husbands. So the cvcking is part of that strategy because its literally guaranteed empowerment.

My thing is we should be advanced at social interactions and PEOPLE ad DJs, players and participants in the "game". The skills acquired should allow us to thrive in hardships.

We need to discuss how the skills translate to relationships.
What does it matter whether she withholds sex, or has "sex" only out of obligation... I don't at all share this view that things used to be better and now feminism or whatever has screwed it up. It simply expressed what was already there.
 

fanatic22

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Your responses have been super interesting, thanks everyone.

What is most interesting to me is that when I asked about "personality change" I really had "sex drive" in the back of my head but I didn't actually say it. And yet, that is what most of you have concentrated on. This is of particular concern for me because, even though I haven't been married, I had a 2 year relationship with an extremely religious woman who felt guilt for having sex. As a result, over time the sex greatly diminished, and I was having it maybe once per week even though we were practically living together (college dorm). It was extremely frustrating. She made me feel like she was doing something FOR me, not that it's something we shared together. I remember days where I was out to dinner with her and had a creeping anxiety about whether or not I was getting laid that night. Any argument meant no sex for days. I was completely under her control. Thank God it was just a gf and I wasn't tied down by kids or a legal contract, but I got a look into what that could be like, and it was horrible. High sex drive is now the absolute most important thing in screening for potential LTRs, but I'm scared about that drive disappearing as soon as a kid or two come out.

Also, old joke (usually told in Spanish):
Husband comes home from work and calls out to his wife.
Husband: "Honey, I brought you the aspirin!"
Wife: "What? I don't have a headache."
Husband: "Great. Let's fvck!"
 
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