Did your wife/ex-wife change after kids?

sazc

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Again, cop out. I stay up late all the time to get work done that I didn't get done during the day so that I could participate in the family activities and be present as a father. I literally lost count a long time ago how many times my wife put the kids to bed, went to sleep and I'm down in my office working until 12-1-2 am to get work done. That didn't make me less horny or cranky the next morning because I got 3-4-5 hours sleep. It's an excuse for bad behavior. Could I be p*ssed off that I was ignored or less likely to do my work to take care of my family because my wife was ignorant, self centered and caring only about herself and the kids? No, I'm resentful but I still do what I need to do to the best of my ability.
NAWALT

you can't ascribe your personal experiences "I didn't get cranky" to her as justification.

That's like saying "I don't have a peanut allergy, so no one should be affected by peanuts"

We're all different. .

The sleep deprivation story was meant to be an illustration, not me trying to defend your wife's behavior. Idk what the personal issues are in your marriage.
 

sazc

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i think all father knows about this.
She was on maternity leave but i was still working.

And still i was the one waking up 1st everytime the baby woke up, i changed the diaper then brpught the baby to her in our bed.

Most of us did our part and more.
I'm glad you played your role. I don't have statistics on how many men help like that but, from what I understand, men who fully engage are rare.

Again, the sleep deprivation story was only meant to be an example of what goes on. I want trying to defend women using it
 

lamath

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NAWALT

you can't ascribe your personal experiences "I didn't get cranky" to her as justification.

That's like saying "I don't have a peanut allergy, so no one should be affected by peanuts"

We're all different. .

The sleep deprivation story was meant to be an illustration, not me trying to defend your wife's behavior. Idk what the personal issues are in your marriage.
I do beleive that his situation on the extreme side,
It changed for me but it was still manageable.

I left because i knew my value and she was no respectful or thankful of what i was giving her.
 

sazc

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The nuances and dynamics of this life change can be extremely difficult to manage and people tend to only view the situation from the (upset, angry, resentful) vantage point of their own perspective
 

sazc

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I do beleive that his situation on the extreme side,
It changed for me but it was still manageable.

I left because i knew my value and she was no respectful or thankful of what i was giving her.
Relationships crumble for many reasons. Usually it's a bunch of things that compound over time. I feel like we fail our children by not preparing then well for many life challenges. Marriage, kids, relationships in general. We were taught how to tie shoes and use a microwave, but no/minnimal dialogue about the rest of it.

I'm glad you saw your value and hope you are happier, and hope the co parenting is going well
 

sazc

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I know all the stresses. A few 15 minute sessions a week wont hurt anything and it also RELIEVES STRESS. Somehow it gets clicked as another job.
Yep. I get that. Kids really do a number on relationships
 

lamath

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So far so good, she took it hard.
And ik she love for us to get back together.

Funny thing she still is very condescending and bitchy towards me.
Like thats gonna help, everytime i talk to her im glad we are not together anymore.

i got my part to play in this too ofc, but she cant even see her own fault.

Still i realy hope things gets better for her, i do love her but not in Wife/husband way.
 

rando5495

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"typical female shaming tactics" such a fvckin cop out. Enjoy stagnation
Relax and see the humour. You are on a red pill internet message board on a grey Thursday expecting a super serious chat about family and marriage. Perspective.

Ranger is of the opinion that men should have kids solo through a surrogate... except there's nobody i've ever known irl done that, and not even any history of anyone even ever doing that on this entire website.

That's probably because it's boring, and it sucks.

I think the thread creator has it right in so much that men should should speak to their fathers and grandfathers first at least. I think that colours our perspective.

Mine says that when my brother and I were kids was one of the happiest times in his life. I can vouch that I had an awesome childhood. When they did divorce, they kept getting back on and off but tried to be sly about it so that we wouldn't know. Passion wasn't the problem, but he was "too controlling" (and he actually sort of was tbh). My mum never ripped him to shreds through lawyers (though she apparantly could have), because she's generally not a cvnt.

My dad is fine with things. Had and raised kids, done the whole thing, generally is proud and happy.

Then i'll hear someone like Tom Leykis delivering his mgtow podcast, and he'll boast about "being the father that many young men never had". And i'm thinking, doesn't that just make you the cuck of the universe?
 

mrgoodstuff

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i think all father knows about this.
She was on maternity leave but i was still working.

And still i was the one waking up 1st everytime the baby woke up, i changed the diaper then brpught the baby to her in our bed.

Most of us did our part and more.
I woke up and did all this too. It didnt kill the desire of sex. So my wives fuvked me daily after 6 wks of delivery. The 2nd wife shut down after she got her 2nd kid.
Yep. I get that. Kids really do a number on relationships
yeah but if going into it women knew theyd prioritize even a small amount of time for her and her man. A common reason for failure is that sex dries up after she has the # of kids she wants.
 

sazc

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yeah but if going into it women knew theyd prioritize even a small amount of time for her and her man. A common reason for failure is that sex dries up after she has the # of kids she wants.
Excellent point. Education on not only the toll that kids can take on a marriage BUT education about how important and validating sex is for *your* man

I put that in astericks because, as young women, we are bombarded with the message that "all men want sex and a lot of it" and the follow up message is always "don't be a slvt"

But those messages are never tempered with the understanding/explanation that, once you do have a man, understand that part of his personal validation comes from sex (same message as before, but with a positive spin) so work hard to keep sexuality alive and well in your relationship. Nor are we really taught that sex is healthy and should be fun.

Again, we teach them to tie their laces and use a microwave.

I guess I never realized that sex is/creates a point of vulnerability with men.

I'm glad we had this chat. This is something I will remember to talk to my daughter about when she is ready for the conversation.
 

AttackFormation

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This forum is hardly a representative sample, but reading these threads is enough to make you swear off kids. It's one thing to merely be in a relationship, if that's what you want. But the problem with kids is if the relationship goes on an unsalvageable downward slide, there's nothing you can do about it without causing irreparable damage. If you don't have kids you can end it and move on. If you have kids then leaving, and even staying, will hurt their childhoods... precisely the thing you most want to avoid, but what you in the end have the least control over.

Then you add on the fact that people will do whatever it takes to pretend their relationship is healthy from the outside. How much of what they portray outward is true?

I was always going to be biased from the start though, with the behavior I've both seen and had admitted to me so far. Not malicious behavior... just so unfathomably stupid, careless, pathetic and disgusting. These people should never have been allowed to have children, but it's exactly their carelessness and stupidity that enables them to make kids so frivolously.
 

highSpeed

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NAWALT

you can't ascribe your personal experiences "I didn't get cranky" to her as justification.

That's like saying "I don't have a peanut allergy, so no one should be affected by peanuts"

We're all different. .

The sleep deprivation story was meant to be an illustration, not me trying to defend your wife's behavior. Idk what the personal issues are in your marriage.
Well with your logic, "Hey, I'm resentful because she didn't help me do my work after she went to sleep.", would apply as well. I don't do that sh*t, neither should she. Look, I get it, both people do things that the other hates and kids can accentuate those negatives. Look, I also get it, I'm not saying I'm perfect in the relationship and could stand to improve things so I can be a better spouse and partner. But you, along with pretty much every other female I run into, always revert to the default "make excuses for the sisterhood" type of response. Oh, it must be something he is doing or is wrong with the relationship, not anything the female needs to change. This, this is the type of behavior that is leading western men away from wanting marriage and in-depth relationships. Women always complain that there are no good guys but between white knights and feminism, they have created the very conditions that they now lament. I often wonder whether or not women can truly be this disconnected from reality and then I see women's naked, unvarnished thoughts on display and this confirms that they are this disconnected.
 

mrgoodstuff

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Excellent point. Education on not only the toll that kids can take on a marriage BUT education about how important and validating sex is for *your* man

I put that in astericks because, as young women, we are bombarded with the message that "all men want sex and a lot of it" and the follow up message is always "don't be a slvt"

But those messages are never tempered with the understanding/explanation that, once you do have a man, understand that part of his personal validation comes from sex (same message as before, but with a positive spin) so work hard to keep sexuality alive and well in your relationship. Nor are we really taught that sex is healthy and should be fun.

Again, we teach them to tie their laces and use a microwave.

I guess I never realized that sex is/creates a point of vulnerability with men.

I'm glad we had this chat. This is something I will remember to talk to my daughter about when she is ready for the conversation.
With a little bit of puzzy and care a man will kill. The other part is maintaining her sexual identity and having coupled orgasms relieves stress and helps bonding.
 

sazc

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Well with your logic, "Hey, I'm resentful because she didn't help me do my work after she went to sleep.", would apply as well. I don't do that sh*t, neither should she. Look, I get it, both people do things that the other hates and kids can accentuate those negatives. Look, I also get it, I'm not saying I'm perfect in the relationship and could stand to improve things so I can be a better spouse and partner. But you, along with pretty much every other female I run into, always revert to the default "make excuses for the sisterhood" type of response. Oh, it must be something he is doing or is wrong with the relationship, not anything the female needs to change. This, this is the type of behavior that is leading western men away from wanting marriage and in-depth relationships. Women always complain that there are no good guys but between white knights and feminism, they have created the very conditions that they now lament. I often wonder whether or not women can truly be this disconnected from reality and then I see women's naked, unvarnished thoughts on display and this confirms that they are this disconnected.
Au contraire. My belief is that the onus is always on both ppl. I've stated that over and over again. Confirmation bias much?
 

sazc

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With a little bit of puzzy and care a man will kill. The other part is maintaining her sexual identity and having coupled orgasms relieves stress and helps bonding.
I hear ya
 

highSpeed

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With a little bit of puzzy and care a man will kill. The other part is maintaining her sexual identity and having coupled orgasms relieves stress and helps bonding.
yep, common sense right? watch sacz make up some type of excuse.
 

highSpeed

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Au contraire. My belief is that the onus is always on both ppl. I've stated that over and over again. Confirmation bias much?
Then why do I never see you down on the female? Why is it always an excuse or something wrong with the relationship in general. My wife made up much the same excuse after we had our first, she's all touched out. Yep, there's some research on it, it's a real thing according to her and total excuse for why there is no intimacy in our relationship. That I'd have to wait it out a few years. Yes, you heard me, a few years.
 

lamath

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Excellent point. Education on not only the toll that kids can take on a marriage BUT education about how important and validating sex is for *your* man

I put that in astericks because, as young women, we are bombarded with the message that "all men want sex and a lot of it" and the follow up message is always "don't be a slvt"

But those messages are never tempered with the understanding/explanation that, once you do have a man, understand that part of his personal validation comes from sex (same message as before, but with a positive spin) so work hard to keep sexuality alive and well in your relationship. Nor are we really taught that sex is healthy and should be fun.

Again, we teach them to tie their laces and use a microwave.

I guess I never realized that sex is/creates a point of vulnerability with men.

I'm glad we had this chat. This is something I will remember to talk to my daughter about when she is ready for the conversation.
I dont agree its all about sex, but sex does help a keeping the couple closer and more intimate.


Was not having sex with ex but its not the main reason i left, its the lack of respect and how she was treating me


Now sex is still not the no 1 reason i want to date. Still its a plus and it will make.me lower my standard if ik i can get it
 

highSpeed

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I dont agree its all about sex, but sex does help a keeping the couple closer and more intimate.


Was not having sex with ex but its not the main reason i left, its the lack of respect and how she was treating me


Now sex is still not the no 1 reason i want to date. Still its a plus and it will make.me lower my standard if ik i can get it
I've always found the rational male's responses to these kinds of questions to be best. While I know my opinion might be somewhat compromised due to my gender, it simply makes sense. Would you marry your roommate or your sexual partner? I assume there would be an insanely low percentage beyond joking around, that would say roommate. Would you marry someone who disrespected you all the time or who held you in reverence? Again, we know what the answer is. Those 2 things alone, can keep a relationship strong for decades and decades. Relationships that don't have those 2 items, they're simply not going to last. Any female with an ounce of common sense realizes this, yet we still see the same issues in a relationship over and over.

Honestly, how many times do you really see the caricature of the guy in the a frame shirt, beer in hand, constantly glued to the tv and their lounger and doing nothing but going to work if their spouse is lucky? Yes, it happens but not often. How many times do you see the more likely picture of the guy killing himself to make everyone happy and no one reciprocating?
 

AttackFormation

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Then why do I never see you down on the female? Why is it always an excuse or something wrong with the relationship in general. My wife made up much the same excuse after we had our first, she's all touched out. Yep, there's some research on it, it's a real thing according to her and total excuse for why there is no intimacy in our relationship. That I'd have to wait it out a few years. Yes, you heard me, a few years.
I think the basic difference is that for the woman, sex either is a chore or degenerates into one. That's the unspoken, but underlying implication I got from sazc's posts before she started agreeing somewhat with you guys. So sex doesn't cause enjoyment and stress relief, it just further causes resentment and discontent. It's another chore she knows she has to do to keep it together (or in cases like with your wife, knows she doesn't have to do). If sex was something she wanted to have because it makes her feel better and brings her closer to you to work out the relationship, then sex would have been part of the solution to the problems... not be the problem.

And this is more speculation, but maybe it comes back to the reasons why each gender is likelier to commit. Women can have sex whenever they want, they've probably had much more of it than you have, and probably with hotter guys than you. When she commits, it's primarily because you can provide her with some tangible object or individual, rather than reciprocal, emotion - kids, money, security. Men may be more likely to commit because they want good sex and bonding in of themselves. Again, this is just in general and speculation though. I am also tempted to simply say that dumb, selfish and crazy people create dumb, selfish and crazy relationships... but in cases where that doesn't apply, the rest may.
 
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