Dates go well but she never offers to pay.

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#41
You pay for everything always with all your plates?


I don’t think this is true, at least not for all women. The transaction is not money for sex, the goal should be that they like you enough to open their legs without you having to pay for everything. I think a well mannered woman should make an initiative to offer payment or treat you in other ways: Dessert, cook dinner, etc.
Most women are flattered you will pay. Still in the world even if they have their own money. That’s not the issue. Bring a girl to dinner with me and you. And I will pay. See who she respects more after 3 times of doing that. At least as far as that is concerned. Just an experiment. It’s still a big deal with WOMEN. Can’t speak for little girls
 
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#42
Now, first of all, if your the guy that pays for everyone at social gatherings, I dont believe that is even in the same context as the OP. Also, I believe there are far better things you could be spending your money on in this world, but that is certainly your choice.

I don't believe its nearly a black and white subject. As a general rule, I tend to split things fairly even, and I may pay 60/40. Do I ever pay the entire bill? Sure, but certainly not enough to where it's an expectation. The expectation is that my hard earned money (ie. time) is just as valuable as hers.

In this day and age, women want equality, yet you guys pay for them. I think that's absolutely silly. And then with a mindset, of treating her to something expecting good rewards at the end of the night? That is the basic definition of beta; supplication with the expectation of a reward. I prefer the opposite approach, She is lucky enough that I chose to fvck her, she should be (but doesnt) paying for my meals.

I like to see a woman who is willing to pay; a woman who reaches for her wallet or chips in for the tip or something. These women are "givers". A woman that doesn't is a "taker", and I really have no interest in them.
I dont care what she spent to see me, that is her problem, not mine. I want a woman who takes pride in looking good for me, and has zero issues paying her own way; not one who think her beauty entitles her a piece of my wallet. Her beauty means nothing to me, cause as @DEEZEDBRAH would say... new women turn 18 every day.
Were talking about dinner and drinks. Not a house. And the women I knew still want a man to do that and they make their own money. Regarding Beta, I really can’t agree with you. Women like a man that takes control over dinner and drinks. That’s totally expected from Alpha and for me not even a question. Beta is the one splitting bills. It’s just not manly.
 

Spaz

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#43
Now, first of all, if your the guy that pays for everyone at social gatherings, I dont believe that is even in the same context as the OP. Also, I believe there are far better things you could be spending your money on in this world, but that is certainly your choice.

I don't believe its nearly a black and white subject. As a general rule, I tend to split things fairly even, and I may pay 60/40. Do I ever pay the entire bill? Sure, but certainly not enough to where it's an expectation. The expectation is that my hard earned money (ie. time) is just as valuable as hers.

In this day and age, women want equality, yet you guys pay for them. I think that's absolutely silly. And then with a mindset, of treating her to something expecting good rewards at the end of the night? That is the basic definition of beta; supplication with the expectation of a reward. I prefer the opposite approach, She is lucky enough that I chose to fvck her, she should be (but doesnt) paying for my meals.

I like to see a woman who is willing to pay; a woman who reaches for her wallet or chips in for the tip or something. These women are "givers". A woman that doesn't is a "taker", and I really have no interest in them.
I dont care what she spent to see me, that is her problem, not mine. I want a woman who takes pride in looking good for me, and has zero issues paying her own way; not one who think her beauty entitles her a piece of my wallet. Her beauty means nothing to me, cause as @DEEZEDBRAH would say... new women turn 18 every day.
Of course there's nothing wrong in splitting a bill Roober. I'm talking of the greater benefits to be had.

In my case it's not abt expecting rewards. It never is. You can't buy affection, loyalty or love.

But you generate goodwill and to a certain extent a reputation that extends to respect both from women and men alike in your interactions.

Goodwill is hard to quantify but it's importance cannot be denied - when I travel to another country or even another city women or men will offer use of their cars, their social contacts, their time, their resources (offices, houses, etc) and much more.

It is a rare man who insists on paying for meals/drinks, when it's rare it's special, and special people get treated differently.
 
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#44
When first dating, the man pays, case closed. You are establishing a lot by paying. I laugh and shake my head when I read about some of you guys agonizing over who should pay or if it should be split.

Once you settle into a LTR, it's great when you can get her to voluntarily pay once in a while.
 
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#45
When first dating, the man pays, case closed. You are establishing a lot by paying. I laugh and shake my head when I read about some of you guys agonizing over who should pay or if it should be split.

Once you settle into a LTR, it's great when you can get her to voluntarily pay once in a while.
Would I let her pay in the beginning, no. But do I expect her to make an attempt or at least utter the words out of her mouth? Yes I do. It shouldn't be that she just sits and EXPECTS that I pay for everything. I think that's the premise of my OP.
 

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Roober

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#47
Of course there's nothing wrong in splitting a bill Roober. I'm talking of the greater benefits to be had.

In my case it's not abt expecting rewards. It never is. You can't buy affection, loyalty or love.

But you generate goodwill and to a certain extent a reputation that extends to respect both from women and men alike in your interactions.

Goodwill is hard to quantify but it's importance cannot be denied - when I travel to another country or even another city women or men will offer use of their cars, their social contacts, their time, their resources (offices, houses, etc) and much more.

It is a rare man who insists on paying for meals/drinks, when it's rare it's special, and special people get treated differently.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one, and it's likely due to wildly different environments where we operate.

I do agree that treating guests well is important, but those are people that are worth it. I do understand the importance of the business construct of good will and getting kindness in return.

In the dating game, however, and a partner, that is a completely different context. There is no value in buying a womans meals, etc. especially one who expects me to pay for her. Women like that are a dime a dozen. And in the Bay Area, where six figure salaries are the norm, a man who pays for a woman is the expectation; it's certainly not rare or special.

Like @Knight of Roses , I agree that a woman should show some initiative and even pay. Its these little things that men often ignore just to get the puzzay. And I say good for them! But it's not the type of woman that is worth my time.
 

Spaz

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#48
We will have to agree to disagree on this one, and it's likely due to wildly different environments where we operate.

I do agree that treating guests well is important, but those are people that are worth it. I do understand the importance of the business construct of good will and getting kindness in return.

In the dating game, however, and a partner, that is a completely different context. There is no value in buying a womans meals, etc. especially one who expects me to pay for her. Women like that are a dime a dozen. And in the Bay Area, where six figure salaries are the norm, a man who pays for a woman is the expectation; it's certainly not rare or special.

Like @Knight of Roses , I agree that a woman should show some initiative and even pay. Its these little things that men often ignore just to get the puzzay. And I say good for them! But it's not the type of woman that is worth my time.
I understand. Let's agree to disagree.
 

flowtheory

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#49
Both men and women should be reaching for the bills.

So what if she spent 700 dollars on getting ready for a date? If she did that then she’s not very good with her money, or she has nothing better to do, and needs to learn how to invest in stocks or something.

Most people are not making huge amounts of money to be tackling the bills and planning dates at least once a week. And no man should have to feel he has to foot every bill because ‘that’s what makes him a man’. Times have changed. And it doesn’t garner more respect from people; lasting respect. It makes people feel good in a fleeting moment.

Yes, it’s great to be able to grab all the bills in every situation; to be well off - If you can do that. But to feel insulted if a woman does it or feel emasculated? That sounds like an ego issue. In a healthy relationship it’s both people putting in full effort. 100 - 100

If a woman isn’t picking up the bills within the first three dates and is expecting I always pay, it won’t work between us because she should want to treat me just like I want to treat her. And when she pays it doesn’t mean I’m not leading.

This topic is a stalemate because everyone has been raised different and it all has varying levels of outward and personal respect attached to it. And ego.
OP; don’t address it overtly with her. That will cause issues - I speak from experience and it doesn’t go away - keep seeing her and if it’s a problem after the 5th date, let her go if it’s important to you.
We can’t change others expectations, they have to come to their own conclusions. And if she really likes you and you disappear, she’ll ask what’s up and you simply tell her you’re lokijng for someone who has the same views on money being outwardly spent on dates.

Be willing to walk on matters which matter to you. Isnt this a pillar of the DJ way?
 

Focal core

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#50
Both men and women should be reaching for the bills.

So what if she spent 700 dollars on getting ready for a date? If she did that then she’s not very good with her money, or she has nothing better to do, and needs to learn how to invest in stocks or something.

Most people are not making huge amounts of money to be tackling the bills and planning dates at least once a week. And no man should have to feel he has to foot every bill because ‘that’s what makes him a man’. Times have changed. And it doesn’t garner more respect from people; lasting respect. It makes people feel good in a fleeting moment.

Yes, it’s great to be able to grab all the bills in every situation; to be well off - If you can do that. But to feel insulted if a woman does it or feel emasculated? That sounds like an ego issue. In a healthy relationship it’s both people putting in full effort. 100 - 100

If a woman isn’t picking up the bills within the first three dates and is expecting I always pay, it won’t work between us because she should want to treat me just like I want to treat her. And when she pays it doesn’t mean I’m not leading.

This topic is a stalemate because everyone has been raised different and it all has varying levels of outward and personal respect attached to it. And ego.
OP; don’t address it overtly with her. That will cause issues - I speak from experience and it doesn’t go away - keep seeing her and if it’s a problem after the 5th date, let her go if it’s important to you.
We can’t change others expectations, they have to come to their own conclusions. And if she really likes you and you disappear, she’ll ask what’s up and you simply tell her you’re lokijng for someone who has the same views on money being outwardly spent on dates.

Be willing to walk on matters which matter to you. Isnt this a pillar of the DJ way?
In another great perspective @flowtheory to view it..

Its understandable many chicks falls for the wrong guys.. Not even a man in that matters that didnt even reciprocate in meterial ways.. Taken gurl for granted, these group of dudes called "fvckbois" (in the women realms) that giving other men a bad rep. Many of the gurls get burned for this..

It may takes sometimes to get chicks trust to pay for dates next time.
 
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marmel75

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#51
When first dating, the man pays, case closed. You are establishing a lot by paying. I laugh and shake my head when I read about some of you guys agonizing over who should pay or if it should be split.

Once you settle into a LTR, it's great when you can get her to voluntarily pay once in a while.
Its a young person mentality. I agree with this, although in most cases if the woman is into you she will OFFER to pay something.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

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#53
Been on three dates now, kiss closed first and got more intimacy at her place tonight after third date (not smashed yet). She shows interest, initiates text, etc. However, damn girl never offers to pay for anything. Wtf? I’m a bit irritated by this behavior.

What y’all think?
That be like me saying she loves Christmas presents but buys you nothing?

Train her better. Stop dating. Drinks or coffee. Downgrade her to booty call.
 
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#54
Both men and women should be reaching for the bills.

So what if she spent 700 dollars on getting ready for a date? If she did that then she’s not very good with her money, or she has nothing better to do, and needs to learn how to invest in stocks or something.

Most people are not making huge amounts of money to be tackling the bills and planning dates at least once a week. And no man should have to feel he has to foot every bill because ‘that’s what makes him a man’. Times have changed. And it doesn’t garner more respect from people; lasting respect. It makes people feel good in a fleeting moment.

Yes, it’s great to be able to grab all the bills in every situation; to be well off - If you can do that. But to feel insulted if a woman does it or feel emasculated? That sounds like an ego issue. In a healthy relationship it’s both people putting in full effort. 100 - 100

If a woman isn’t picking up the bills within the first three dates and is expecting I always pay, it won’t work between us because she should want to treat me just like I want to treat her. And when she pays it doesn’t mean I’m not leading.

This topic is a stalemate because everyone has been raised different and it all has varying levels of outward and personal respect attached to it. And ego.
OP; don’t address it overtly with her. That will cause issues - I speak from experience and it doesn’t go away - keep seeing her and if it’s a problem after the 5th date, let her go if it’s important to you.
We can’t change others expectations, they have to come to their own conclusions. And if she really likes you and you disappear, she’ll ask what’s up and you simply tell her you’re lokijng for someone who has the same views on money being outwardly spent on dates.

Be willing to walk on matters which matter to you. Isnt this a pillar of the DJ way?
Without producing a long diatribe, I would simply say that in some ways, maybe significant ways, you have a different view of a man than I do. And a different view of what a woman is. And in some ways times have changed. Noted. But women always like a man who is a provider and protector. THAT has not changed. It’s in the blood and genes. And dinner and drinks is a small way of demonstrating that. It makes her feel good and me feel good. And yes, I have the means to do it because I CREATED the ability to do it. I didn’t gore up with money. I made my own since I was a teenager. I simply don’t ageee with you that women have changed internally in this way. At least the ones I prefer to be engaged with. But if your view works for you I won’t dissuade you. And I wish you the very best.
 

flowtheory

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#55
Without producing a long diatribe, I would simply say that in some ways, maybe significant ways, you have a different view of a man than I do. And a different view of what a woman is. And in some ways times have changed. Noted. But women always like a man who is a provider and protector. THAT has not changed. It’s in the blood and genes. And dinner and drinks is a small way of demonstrating that. It makes her feel good and me feel good. And yes, I have the means to do it because I CREATED the ability to do it. I didn’t gore up with money. I made my own since I was a teenager. I simply don’t ageee with you that women have changed internally in this way. At least the ones I prefer to be engaged with. But if your view works for you I won’t dissuade you. And I wish you the very best.
Yea totally. Everyone is going to have their own individual view and that’s fine. I like picking up tabs and agree with you on women looking for and valuing provider types.
Someone else said it here. If a woman isn’t reaching for the bill then that’s an indicator of her having low interest.
 
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Focal core

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#56
Yea totally. Everyone is going to have their own individual view and that’s fine. I like picking up tabs and agree with you on women looking for and valuing provider types.
Someone else said it here. If a woman isn’t reaching for the bill then that’s an indicator of her having low interest.
What important things to always remember is, no matter the girl is hb6 hb8 hb 10 even, we always reflextively attracted to the one that match our own level of emotional developement.. If we are a crap we are attracting crap and vice versa. What we project we attract.
 

Espi

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#58
Been on three dates now, kiss closed first and got more intimacy at her place tonight after third date (not smashed yet). She shows interest, initiates text, etc. However, damn girl never offers to pay for anything. Wtf? I’m a bit irritated by this behavior.

What y’all think?
We ALL pay for sex, in my opinion. A prostitute is up front and direct about expecting cash for sex, but most other women will expect food, drink, and gifts.

I personally enjoy buying them drinks and taking them to dinner, and I'm blessed that I can do it, but the conventional-impatient-resentful-jaded-cynical aspect of me will usually cut bait after 2-3 meetups with no sex.
 

Espi

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#59
Unless you state this to her on the dates from day one that you want to take turns, then women by nature will assume you will take care of her. She is finding out you are the kind of guy who pays for anything, so what do you want to be seen as when it comes to women. I don't blame her, as your letting her get away with not paying. Just say it on the next date before the meal starts, lets take turns paying for meals.
I'm convinced that very few women will concede to paying. Why? Because it's their POWER. I personally believe that most women know that they hold the majority of power in the early phase of courtship. Society endorses this. The man is expected to ask, arrange, and pay for the date. The woman is merely expected to show up for the date LOL (unless she flakes, of course).

Not saying it's right or that I agree. But I go with it, mainly because I can afford to pay and most women like/appreciate it.
 

Espi

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#60
Che 2

Not yet. When youve had enough withdrawals you will reach a point of pain. Then youll learn it cost you all along. Im about equitable relationships.
I will say, and this is just my personal opinion, that the experience and level of gamesmanship that I've developed over the years is most likely attributed to meeting women for drinks/dinner. It starts with that and leads to better things.
 
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