Computer science/programming

touma.akagi

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I went to a CS-focused college and thought it was the perfect fit for me - 3 year program, nice events at school, and people who graduate make big money... but I had to withdraw because of my grades.

I just had a tough time learning Java. Had I known it would be a problem, I would've studied it in high school. The tough thing is, that even the school's advertising made it seem like no prior experience was necessary. So many students like me came in with no prior experience. In first quarter, we had a final project - and I just didn't know enough to make enough contribution. I contributed one class to the project, which didn't even get used. The final project was to make a "console-based" (text based) version of Monopoly in Java. I failed both that class and the initial Algebra class, so I had to retake them both the next quarter.

Quarter 2 went better. I passed the CS class, we had a different teacher and I did learn better. I failed Algebra again, but only because I missed two grades for showing up a bit late. Had I missed one less day, I would've passed. But this quarter we had a particular class that was indeed nastier for me, and it was a Networking class - we learned about IP addresses and Cisco Packet Tracer. I heard from students in the class that Packet Tracer was a bad piece of software. While I believe it, and it doesn't surprise me, I just couldn't do much of the assignments because I did what I was told in the class, it didn't work, I'd go to the student coaching, and just wouldn't be able to get it. Granted, the coaches didn't hand anyone a solution, but they didn't exactly help me either.

In my 3rd quarter, I took the next Java class up. OK, I'm calling these Java classes even though the teachers said "this isn't a Java class," but let's be real: they're ****ing Java classes, for all practical purposes. Sure, the concepts learned within can be applied to multiple languages, but knowledge of Java still would've helped, as I stated. Things seemed to go well for a while, but the road block came with my student grader. She was a girl in my same class (of total students, set to graduate in 2020) who had taken the class the previous quarter. And the problem with her was this: My teacher often set many assignment grades to be hit-or-miss, and so I'd get a 0 on an assignment that I submitted. If you get a 0 before the due date, you get to fix it. My coach/grader often times wouldn't regrade my assignments when I re-submitted them. As a result, many of my grades stayed 0 when they should've been well over 60. It didn't help that not only was I doing poorly in that quarter's math class, I failed the Networking class again. So by the last two weeks of the quarter, I just knew I was going to fail. So I ended up withdrawing from the school, and by extension, moving out of the student-sponsored housing. It was a real pain in the ass, I decided to find a new place to live because moving back across the country to my Dad's house (which won't belong to us anyway in a few months) was neither an appealing option nor one that made sense.

The college was also a sausage fest. There was only about 1 girl for every 20 of us guys there. I legit got no action the entire time I was there, and I hardly even had time for it anyway.

The degree I chose was more business focused, so I want to pursue finance, etc after going to gen eds at community college for two years.

Am I just not cut out for CS stuff, or was I just not taught it well? I understood at least Java half the time, hell, it was even fun sometimes, but really the pacing of the classes was at a mile a minute and overwhelming. That, and the other schools in my area have equally good CS programs and were less expensive than the one I was at. So that begs the question: could I actually do CS/programming? Did I just go to the wrong school? Or should I just cut my losses? People I graduated high school with are going to finish their second year this Spring, and I have de facto nothing - almost none of my gen ed credits from the previous school will transfer, so when I do start school this Spring or Summer it's going to be a fresh start.
 

Stephen89

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You stated after re submission you should've got well over 60% so that is an indicator you were cut for it. You also said the pacing of the class was not right and it overwhelmed you. it's not really your fault.

For networking, the coaches didn't help you.

For CS, especially in first year, you'd normally do algebra, calculus, matrices, complex numbers etc-was your assessment/exam multiple choice, open book(where you can take your book in), closed book?

I think the math you would've handled, I believe you would've gone onto to study discrete math.

And in your other years algorithms, software engineering, oop etc.
 
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Crown

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Java; C; C++ are overwhelming languages. They are very difficult and take a lot of time to master. You need at least 5 years of C++ just to have a bad level.
Java these days is mainly used for android/Apple apps. Other then that, I don't recommend learning it.

If programming is the way you wanna go, I suggest you Javascript + A framework of your choice.
JS is very easy and well paid. Combined with HTML and CSS, you can build websites, desktop and mobile apps.
 

Stephen89

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Agree with crown, Javascript is very popular these days and will continue to be so. Also JS frameworks such as react, node, angular.

Learn and build web apps, websites and you'll be in demand.

Not sure in the US, but Java is still popular here for building software in the UK, not just for android apps.

C# has a lot of demand and C++, well it's probably used by video game development companies mostly, it's on the downhill here in the UK, there's very low demand for it and Python is used to build financial software and for data science, machine learning.
 
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nicksaiz65

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I’m currently studying Computer Science as well and I’m struggling. I’m doing better now though. There is money to be made in it though, push through brother
 

evan12

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I dont know how today someone can have difficultly learning programming languages , there are tons of learning materials out there. if you couldnt get it from class just read online and practice , what I am really afraid, is that you are not really into programming , in that case you will find difficulty learning programming languages.
 

nicksaiz65

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I dont know how today someone can have difficultly learning programming languages , there are tons of learning materials out there. if you couldnt get it from class just read online and practice , what I am really afraid, is that you are not really into programming , in that case you will find difficulty learning programming languages.
I will say when I started reading books(other than the boring incomprehensible school textbooks too) and actually using internet resources instead of just class, my grades improved.
 

Stephen89

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There's plenty of internet resources such as khan academy, code academy, treehouse, w3 schools, internet articles, udemy, youtube, udacity free content.

Make the most out of it.
 

synergy1

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As someone who is self taught, and took time to break into the field, I can offer what I think is sound advice here.

First - learning online is great to get the general concepts down. The free stuff is of good value to beginners, but becomes very contrived once you start digging into real problems. Conversely, the problems you see on Stack Overflow are actual engineers solving real problems which might not be the best way to learn to start.

Next , the best way to learn is to build a real project from start to end. Not a "to do" list, not an app that displays comments, but something real. Web apps are popular since it covers good OOP concepts, and touches all the important parts of the stack. I cannot recommend this enough as it has vaulted me ahead, in my opinion, of someone coming out of a good 4 year college program. I say this because myself and a college graduate started the same Java position a little while ago, and my ramping process has been meaningfully faster, despite him commanding a much stronger understanding of the theory.

This brings me to my next point which addresses what appears to be your struggle in the classes. Remember, this only guages your ability to learn and regurgitate a lot of information on very limited time basis. This was the same in my undergrad , which was engineering. I got mostly A's and understood material real well, but have found the kids with lower GPAs have actually done better after college. Point is, don't let your struggle in those classes lead you to believe you can't do this in the real world. If you are interested, you can.

"The college was also a sausage fest. There was only about 1 girl for every 20 of us guys there. I legit got no action the entire time I was there, and I hardly even had time for it anyway."

yeah welcome to tech. Its just how it is, for better or for worse.

"I understood at least Java half the time, hell, it was even fun sometimes, but really the pacing of the classes was at a mile a minute and overwhelming."

I hear you, especially in Java which is what we use. I still feel like I don't understand anything either but as you build something and see it, it becomes way more obvious. OOP is a system, and something you won't rotely understand in a week. Remember, you won't be building something from scratch to start, but probably working on something already built. This is how you learn, when you see how its done.

If you want this, keep trying. Put in the time like us career changers did. you are still young, and can pivot if wanted. The salaries for dev, as well as job demand is great and you can live very comfortably if you so desire. But it is work.
 

touma.akagi

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C# has a lot of demand and C++, well it's probably used by video game development companies mostly, it's on the downhill here in the UK, there's very low demand for it and Python is used to build financial software and for data science, machine learning.
Yeah, everyone else said that C# and C++ were considerably easier to use than Java. And really, the program starts everyone on Java because it's the more difficult language, so I suppose in many ways it makes sense to use Java, but also not as much.
 

sosousage

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I went to a CS-focused college and thought it was the perfect fit for me - 3 year program, nice events at school, and people who graduate make big money... but I had to withdraw because of my grades.

I just had a tough time learning Java. Had I known it would be a problem, I would've studied it in high school. The tough thing is, that even the school's advertising made it seem like no prior experience was necessary. So many students like me came in with no prior experience. In first quarter, we had a final project - and I just didn't know enough to make enough contribution. I contributed one class to the project, which didn't even get used. The final project was to make a "console-based" (text based) version of Monopoly in Java. I failed both that class and the initial Algebra class, so I had to retake them both the next quarter.

Quarter 2 went better. I passed the CS class, we had a different teacher and I did learn better. I failed Algebra again, but only because I missed two grades for showing up a bit late. Had I missed one less day, I would've passed. But this quarter we had a particular class that was indeed nastier for me, and it was a Networking class - we learned about IP addresses and Cisco Packet Tracer. I heard from students in the class that Packet Tracer was a bad piece of software. While I believe it, and it doesn't surprise me, I just couldn't do much of the assignments because I did what I was told in the class, it didn't work, I'd go to the student coaching, and just wouldn't be able to get it. Granted, the coaches didn't hand anyone a solution, but they didn't exactly help me either.

In my 3rd quarter, I took the next Java class up. OK, I'm calling these Java classes even though the teachers said "this isn't a Java class," but let's be real: they're ****ing Java classes, for all practical purposes. Sure, the concepts learned within can be applied to multiple languages, but knowledge of Java still would've helped, as I stated. Things seemed to go well for a while, but the road block came with my student grader. She was a girl in my same class (of total students, set to graduate in 2020) who had taken the class the previous quarter. And the problem with her was this: My teacher often set many assignment grades to be hit-or-miss, and so I'd get a 0 on an assignment that I submitted. If you get a 0 before the due date, you get to fix it. My coach/grader often times wouldn't regrade my assignments when I re-submitted them. As a result, many of my grades stayed 0 when they should've been well over 60. It didn't help that not only was I doing poorly in that quarter's math class, I failed the Networking class again. So by the last two weeks of the quarter, I just knew I was going to fail. So I ended up withdrawing from the school, and by extension, moving out of the student-sponsored housing. It was a real pain in the ass, I decided to find a new place to live because moving back across the country to my Dad's house (which won't belong to us anyway in a few months) was neither an appealing option nor one that made sense.

The college was also a sausage fest. There was only about 1 girl for every 20 of us guys there. I legit got no action the entire time I was there, and I hardly even had time for it anyway.

The degree I chose was more business focused, so I want to pursue finance, etc after going to gen eds at community college for two years.

Am I just not cut out for CS stuff, or was I just not taught it well? I understood at least Java half the time, hell, it was even fun sometimes, but really the pacing of the classes was at a mile a minute and overwhelming. That, and the other schools in my area have equally good CS programs and were less expensive than the one I was at. So that begs the question: could I actually do CS/programming? Did I just go to the wrong school? Or should I just cut my losses? People I graduated high school with are going to finish their second year this Spring, and I have de facto nothing - almost none of my gen ed credits from the previous school will transfer, so when I do start school this Spring or Summer it's going to be a fresh start.

i was learning java as i felt for the 'multi platform language ' meme but truth is c# can do the same and its much easier

making a commandline game sounds easy af


btw learning in schools sucks imo. i couldnt learn anything at school, but if im learning alone from internet then i can learn everything as soon as i find it useful for me. if i consider language useless to me, i wont learn it obviously


btw have u looked at job offers?

every offert requires someone with degree.

so imo you should keep learning at both home and in school and get degree
 

synergy1

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"every offert requires someone with degree."

Forgot to add this, but yes a technical degree ( any will do) seems to be needed to get a look. Mine is in engineering so with some experience, companies seem interested. It appears to be more difficult to get a look without, but not impossible.
 

sazc

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once you graduate, if you want to be a contender in the industry, you have to keep learning and keep up to date with that is new.

new new new right now is Python where I am working. Java is still in use in many types of systems, even ones I cant mention.

Just this past year I've learned Angular, Bootstrap, C sharp and, Vue and Vuetify. Now I am back to Java on the back end, I woldnt even call it 'server side' because the system I am working on does some hard core processing. It's something I would have thought would have een writen in c/c++ but it's in Java.

I believe anyone can do anything, so dont give up on yourself. I will also add to follow your BLISS. If CS isnt your absolute bliss, it will be a more difficult road for you. Remember, theoretically you have to do this for the rest of your life, you want to feel good about it.
 

sosousage

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once you graduate, if you want to be a contender in the industry, you have to keep learning and keep up to date with that is new.

new new new right now is Python where I am working. Java is still in use in many types of systems, even ones I cant mention.

Just this past year I've learned Angular, Bootstrap, C sharp and, Vue and Vuetify. Now I am back to Java on the back end, I woldnt even call it 'server side' because the system I am working on does some hard core processing. It's something I would have thought would have een writen in c/c++ but it's in Java.

I believe anyone can do anything, so dont give up on yourself. I will also add to follow your BLISS. If CS isnt your absolute bliss, it will be a more difficult road for you. Remember, theoretically you have to do this for the rest of your life, you want to feel good about it.

why would you learn so many different languages, like low level C, high level javascript, python and java, bootstrap css

ps, learning node now
 

sazc

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why would you learn so many different languages, like low level C, high level javascript, python and java, bootstrap css

ps, learning node now
C - I used a job doing mainframe simulation.
C++ I leaned in college and used it in the mainframe simulation job as well.
The C sharp /Java /JavaScript /angular /Vue /vuetify /jQuery /bootstrap /mySQL I used doing web programming. I've done a lot of that.
i haven't learned python but probably should because it's the new, hot thing.

Why do I know so many? I've have had a few different jobs that needed different languages.
 

Stephen89

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To keep up with industry demand and every changing technology, you need to learn various languages.

Web development: JavaScript, PHP, html, css, C#, JQuery
Web application development: Angular, Node, React, JavaScript
Software development: Java, C++, C#, Python
Vr, machine learning, AI: Python, C++
Mobile app development: Java, Swift, C
 

Stephen89

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To keep up with industry demand and be up to date.

Web development: JavaScript, Html, Css, PHP, jQuery, C#
Web application development: Angular, Node, React
Software development: Java, Python, C++, C#
VR, Data Science, Machine learning, AI: Python
Mobile app development: Java, Swift, C
Video game development: C++
 

marmel75

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I hate to say this, but just because you want to be a programmer doesn't mean you will be good at it.

Its like if I wanted to be an artist and couldnt draw well...not much chance for that to work out for me even if I practiced a lot...at some point you have to have the natural ability to do it.

I'm not saying this is or isnt the case, but it is something to think about. Unlike a lot of people I dont think "everyone" can program. Some people's minds just don't work that way very well and they have trouble grasping concepts. And if you can't grasp concepts you have no real prayer of being a good programmer.
 

switch7

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I hate to say this, but just because you want to be a programmer doesn't mean you will be good at it.

Its like if I wanted to be an artist and couldnt draw well...not much chance for that to work out for me even if I practiced a lot...at some point you have to have the natural ability to do it.

I'm not saying this is or isnt the case, but it is something to think about. Unlike a lot of people I dont think "everyone" can program. Some people's minds just don't work that way very well and they have trouble grasping concepts. And if you can't grasp concepts you have no real prayer of being a good programmer.
What would you say is a suitable benchmark for guaging your aptitude for programming?
 
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