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rando5495

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That's interesting. My experience has been a bit different. A lot of the girls I went out with from my teens and early 20's are now single-mothers (in some cases even with kids by different men). A bit chaotic.

In my 20's, after a quite bad situation with one woman, I did my first real reassessment regarding women. Deciding to be with more the ""independance woman"" type, no worries with them having kids or anything like that. Good at that stage in my life, but obviously not a preferance. Subsequently, those types have went on to not have kids, to vote for labour/remain, try and do the sex in the city thing, etc. For all my faults, i've generally been a good judge of character, I think.

If i"ve had any type since, it's probably been foreign i guess? Saw one I was dating the other week, avoided the fvck out of her, but she looked great. With immigrants, you'd think they'd travel all over the country, but they generally seem to stay put once comfortable. See some about sometimes.
 
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Die Hard

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I just came up with a filter to use for women: "Do you see her as a potential mother of your children?"

This has a looooot of implications...

  • Are her genes good enough to choose her to be the one to mix my genes with and create my offspring with?
  • Is she intelligent, patient, wise, emotionally stable, does she have good moral values etc. to raise my children into great human beings?
  • As I believe that children should have a stable household with a father and a mother present, it means I should be able to live with this woman in the same house for at least 20 years or so, until the kids are able to leave the house and live on their own.
  • I shouldn't be just able to "survive" 20 years with her in the same house. I should be able to have a HAPPY time with her in those years. Her and me shouldn't just live together for the sake of the kids... Rather, we should have a great life together, be happy together and find a balanced way of running our shared life together. The kids should have a warm, loving, harmonious environment to grow up in. It's up to her and me to create that environment, as well as set an example for the kids.
  • Etcetera.
Seriously, when I think about all these things, I wonder if such a woman exists hahaha. You have any idea how hard it is to run a stable household together??? Pffff....... I know we always look down on beta losers who are so needy for women that they would utter the words: "You complete me..." But seriously, if I were to ever run a household with kids together with a woman, then she'd better be the perfect complement to me! (and consider me to be the perfect complement to her). Coz if she's anything less than that, I don't think we're gonna make it....

I dunno. Deep down I do believe that creating offspring (and I don't mean just shooting a pvssy full of sperm, lol) is the most important goal in life, after developing yourself to a point where you are ready and capable of creating that offspring. I mean, it's not something I look forward to, it's a lot of responsibility, hard work and sacrifice... But at the same time I feel like I'm wasting away my life and need some sort of higher goal in my life... And whether I look forward to it or not, it seems what nature and instinct are all aimed towards, whether your ego likes it or not.

Neither of us liked going to school and doing homework afterwards either. I don't like getting up early and go to work either, I'd rather stay in bed and watch tv lol. But in the end, all off those things are the right thing to do. And I guess in the end, settling down and creating+raising offspring is the right thing to do too.

As if finding the right woman to do that with isn't hard enough, I realize all too well that I myself am not that great of a catch for a woman to choose me as the guy she'd want to do all of those things with.

I'm a loner, a nonconformist, I have looooooots of baggage from growing up in a dysfunctional household, I have a temper, I can be quite autistic, etc. etc.

So finding a woman who's good enough to do those things with is hard enough. But on top of that I should be good enough for her as well, lol. I don't fvcking know about all that... It's a lot easier to just choose something else to do with my life, coz all of this seems like one hell of a difficult challenge!

Sometimes I think it's better to find a very hot bytch who's living toghether with some beta loser. I'll knock her up so my genes get passed on combined with her "hot" genes haha, and that beta loser will create the stable home and raise my kid with her.

Whatever........... I'm gonna start applying much higher standards to women from now on anyway. It's a start...
 
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Spaz

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I've decided I'm done with all the superficial shyt for now. I see so many hot women who are seriously psychologically damaged and therefor are not in the least capable to offer me a normal human connection, let alone a stable relationship. You can see it in their faces, in their bodies, in their behavior.... Their dysfunctionality just radiates off them.

They're hot and sexy and they provide some sort of "high", like a drug. But in essence, they're not a positive addition to your life. So that's that, I don't need the validation of being able to score a HOT woman who is only that. I don't need their sex either... It's sick and I'm done with it. Look, I don't care how other guys do it, for me it seems like a bad situation either way:

You either act like a psychopath, cut off from your own emotions and your inner proclivity to have normal emotionally healthy relationships with people around you in general and women in particular, you treat these bytches like shyt and bang their brains out, then kick them to the curb before they get any emotional influence over you.
Or you act like an emotionally healthy human being and try to connect with these bytches. Well good luck with that haha...

I'm fvcking DONE with it!!! There is NOTHING there, fvcking NOTHING. They're sick and the only way you can enjoy them is by forcing yourself in a sick state too.

I'm gonna set a high standard for myself from here on. I wish to have a normal, emotionally healthy interaction with a woman. And whenever my dyck tells me to pursue a hot chick, I will restrain myself and stay the fvck away from her if she does not meet the criteria needed to have an emotionally healthy connection with her.

Basically, I'll be out there screening for a good woman and I'll dismiss all the rest, even if they are very sexually appealing and sending out indicators of interest. They can shove their interest up their azzes, I don't want them anymore and I won't be dealing with them anymore. All they do is CORRUPT me. The only way I'm able to get anything from them is by acting like something which I am not, something I do not WISH to be. It's like you have to lower yourself to their level in order to connect with them and get anything from them. FVCK that, I'm done with that.

From now on, I will focus on quality girls only. And I know how much of an effort that will be haha. Coz there are not many of them and even if I encounter one, I mostly am unsuccesful with them coz they generally don't feel attracted to me.

In other words, I'm setting myself up for very little success with women. But so be it. I'd rather be lonely than to comfort myself with the presence of women who really have nothing substantial to add. And I'd rather use my right hand than to have sex with someone who I do not value as a person.

So that's it. I'll see what happens...
Come on man.

You need to stop this rant about women being bad or unworthy or some other negative shiet.

Sure you need to qualify women but you also must have the ability to lead her also.

Relationships always fail because the man didn't lead or because somewhere along the line he has subconsciously dismissed her.
 

Die Hard

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Come on man.

You need to stop this rant about women being bad or unworthy or some other negative shiet.

Sure you need to qualify women but you also must have the ability to lead her also.

Relationships always fail because the man didn't lead or because somewhere along the line he has subconsciously dismissed her.
I'm not saying women are bad or unworthy. I'm saying a whole goddamn lot of them are. And I don't want to deal with those anymore. Instead, I want to deal with the ones who are better.

At the same time, I do understand that "bad" behavior from women is partly a result of the way you handle them.
 

Spaz

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I'm not saying women are bad or unworthy. I'm saying a whole goddamn lot of them are. And I don't want to deal with those anymore. Instead, I want to deal with the ones who are better.
A goddamn lot.

That word when played over and over in ur mind will influence how you interact with ALL women and that will directly affect you in the end.

It's like always saying planes are dangerous and could fall anytime, over and over until it's programmed into ur subconscious.

And the result is either you don't ever fly or when you do its like one of those people with fear of flying - with panic attacks.

You get what I'm saying bro?

It's counter productive.
 
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mrgoodstuff

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A goddamn lot.

That word when played over and over in ur mind will influence how you interact with ALL women and that will directly affect you in the end.

It's like always saying planes are dangerous and could fall anytime, over and over until it's programmed into ur subconscious.

And the result is either you don't ever fly or when you do its like one of those people with fear of flying - with panic attacks.

You get what I'm saying bro?

It's counter productive.
Spaz. You just explained how it could be so detrimental to have one bad relationship or connection. Or how lowering ypur standard for one can be a detrimental to your dealing with ALL women.
 

Spaz

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Spaz. You just explained how it could be so detrimental to have one bad relationship or connection. Or how lowering ypur standard for one can be a detrimental to your dealing with ALL women.
I would like to see men rising up after each fall better and better.

They can only do so with the right mindset.

OP here has so much potential to be great. I seriously believe so, it's clearly manifested in the way he writes his post.

Mindsets are important gents as it set a man up in how he does things.
 

Die Hard

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A goddamn lot.

That word when played over and over in ur mind will influence how you interact with ALL women and that will directly affect you in the end.

It's like always saying planes are dangerous and could fall anytime, over and over until it's programmed into ur subconscious.

And the result is either you don't ever fly or when you do its like one of those people with fear of flying - with panic attacks.

You get what I'm saying bro?

It's counter productive.
I get what you're saying and I'm aware of how one can sabotage himself by being too pre-occupied with that thought. I don't want to get caught up in that, and that's EXACTLY WHY I have decided to not deal with the "bad" women anymore.

Dealing with bad women corrupts me and causes me to mess up when I'm dealing with good women, coz I will treat the good women based on my expriences with the bad women. I will behave to the good women in a manner that brought me success with the bad women, I will raise up defenses towards the good women coz those defenses were needed with the bad women etc. etc. Therefor I will not deal with the goddamn lot of women who are bad anymore.

It's as simple as that. I categorize women in good and bad and choose to only pursue the good ones. And I believe I am capable of judging in which category a woman falls without getting caught up in the mistake where ones mind is pre-occupied with the thought that "all/most women are bad" which will show through in his behavior.

To put it simply, there's a difference between:
1. Knowing that statistically there are a lot more bad women than good women out there.
2. Getting pre-occupied with that thought to the point where it becomes a confirmation bias.
 
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Spaz

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I get what you're saying and I'm aware of how one can sabotage himself by being too pre-occupied with that thought. I don't want to get caught up in that, and that's EXACTLY WHY I have decided to not deal with the "bad" women anymore.

Dealing with bad women corrupts me and causes me to mess up when I'm dealing with good women, coz I will treat the good women based on my expriences with the bad women. I will behave to the good women in a manner that brought me success with the bad women, I will raise up defenses towards the good women coz those defenses were needed with the bad women etc. etc. Therefor I will not deal with the goddamn lot of women who are bad anymore.

It's as simple as that. I categorize women in good and bad and choose to only pursue the good ones. And I believe I am capable of judging in which category a woman falls without getting caught up in the mistake where ones mind is pre-occupied with the thought that "all/most women are bad" which will show through in his behavior.
That's good.

But it would be better to change the terms good/bad to party girls and normal girls.

That would put you in a better frame of mind.

It's common knowledge that party girls are those you avoid for relationship potential and then you zoom in to those normal girls you see everywhere else.
 

Die Hard

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That's good.

But it would be better to change the terms good/bad to party girls and normal girls.

That would put you in a better frame of mind.

It's common knowledge that party girls are those you avoid for relationship potential and then you zoom in to those normal girls you see everywhere else.
I just use the terms good/bad to keep things simple. Might as well use terms as TYPE A and TYPE B or whatever (and of course there's a whole spectrum in between those two categories). Obviously, there's a lot more behind the terms :up:
 
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rando5495

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I just came up with a filter to use for women: "Do you see her as a potential mother of your children?"

This has a looooot of implications...

  • Are her genes good enough to choose her to be the one to mix my genes with and create my offspring with?
  • Is she intelligent, patient, wise, emotionally stable, does she have good moral values etc. to raise my children into great human beings?
  • As I believe that children should have a stable household with a father and a mother present, it means I should be able to live with this woman in the same house for at least 20 years or so, until the kids are able to leave the house and live on their own.
  • I shouldn't be just able to "survive" 20 years with her in the same house. I should be able to have a HAPPY time with her in those years. Her and me shouldn't just live together for the sake of the kids... Rather, we should have a great life together, be happy together and find a balanced way of running our shared life together. The kids should have a warm, loving, harmonious environment to grow up in. It's up to her and me to create that environment, as well as set an example for the kids.
  • Etcetera.
Seriously, when I think about all these things, I wonder if such a woman exists hahaha. You have any idea how hard it is to run a stable household together??? Pffff....... I know we always look down on beta losers who are so needy for women that they would utter the words: "You complete me..." But seriously, if I were to ever run a household with kids together with a woman, then she'd better be the perfect complement to me! (and consider me to be the perfect complement to her). Coz if she's anything less than that, I don't think we're gonna make it....

I dunno. Deep down I do believe that creating offspring (and I don't mean just shooting a pvssy full of sperm, lol) is the most important goal in life, after developing yourself to a point where you are ready and capable of creating that offspring. I mean, it's not something I look forward to, it's a lot of responsibility, hard work and sacrifice... But at the same time I feel like I'm wasting away my life and need some sort of higher goal in my life... And whether I look forward to it or not, it seems what nature and instinct are all aimed towards, whether your ego likes it or not.

Neither of us liked going to school and doing homework afterwards either. I don't like getting up early and go to work either, I'd rather stay in bed and watch tv lol. But in the end, all off those things are the right thing to do. And I guess in the end, settling down and creating+raising offspring is the right thing to do too.

As if finding the right woman to do that with isn't hard enough, I realize all too well that I myself am not that great of a catch for a woman to choose me as the guy she'd want to do all of those things with.

I'm a loner, a nonconformist, I have looooooots of baggage from growing up in a dysfunctional household, I have a temper, I can be quite autistic, etc. etc.

So finding a woman who's good enough to do those things with is hard enough. But on top of that I should be good enough for her as well, lol. I don't fvcking know about all that... It's a lot easier to just choose something else to do with my life, coz all of this seems like one hell of a difficult challenge!

Sometimes I think it's better to find a very hot bytch who's living toghether with some beta loser. I'll knock her up so my genes get passed on combined with her "hot" genes haha, and that beta loser will create the stable home and raise my kid with her.

Whatever........... I'm gonna start applying much higher standards to women from now on anyway. It's a start...
I also look at it as two people adding value to each other's lives.

I've found that I typically add more than they. I think that's a gender generality from life experience and any sort of other metric.

But that's gotten a lot better since understanding my value more, and having a general better understanding of life.

The general message of provide more and expect less is absurd and abhorrent.

I'm not saying women are bad or unworthy. I'm saying a whole goddamn lot of them are. And I don't want to deal with those anymore. Instead, I want to deal with the ones who are better.

At the same time, I do understand that "bad" behavior from women is partly a result of the way you handle them.
Knowing what you don't like is every bit as important as knowing what you do. Along with practical measures, leads to very different results.

I just use the terms good/bad to keep things simple. Might as well use terms as TYPE A and TYPE B or whatever (and of course there's a whole spectrum in between those two categories). Obviously, there's a lot more behind the terms :up:
Yeah semantics. We get what you mean.
 

Die Hard

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Here's something else that's bothering me.

The general consensus over here is that a man should get his life in order and become the best version of himself, not as a means to obtain women but more as an intrinsic goal. Then the women will come as a consequence of achieving that intrinsic goal. Furthermore, it's quite unhealthy if a man only achieves things in life JUST to obtain women, coz that means he basically puts her on a pedestal and bestows immense worth onto her through his actions. It's just not right...

Fine, I get all that. At the same time, I wonder if things need to be black and white when it comes to this. What I mean is, are there only two options?

1. You improve yourself purely because of an extrinsic goal, which is obtaining women
2. You improve yourself as an intrinsic goal and women come as a result

Or are there more shades of grey?

Honestly, I have a tendency to become passive and just live life trying to evade all kinds of responsibilities, not seeking out challenges but rather staying inside my comfort zone. I often postpone things that should get done, even simple things like cleaning up my room or washing my clothes haha. More important things too, but my point is: when you don't feel motivated or have the discipline to do something as simple as cleaning your room or washing your clothes, you're being pretty lowsy and it often is exemplary of your attitude towards life in general.

But when I'm dating a girl that I like, I burst with energy and I get things done. I don't want her to think of me as a lowsy bum lol, so in a way she motivates me to be a better version of myself. Yikes, that's extrinsic motivation and it makes her more important than she should be... As a sidenote, when a new girl stays over at my house, I always worry about cleaning the place up and making a good impression on her. Then as I'm dating her for a while, the honeymoon phase ends and she starts acting like a bytch, I always think to myself "Why the hell did I care about making a good impression on her at the time? I can't believe I put so much energy in cleaning up my house just to make a good impression on this cvnt, she's SO not worth it!"

So I tend to be harsh on myself and tell myself I should first solve my "problem" of having a tendency to slack, evade responsibilities, postpone important things etc. I tell myself that as long as I don't fix that problem internally, I shouldn't expect to land a quality girl. That may be true or not... Maybe you first use a girl as extrinsic motivation to get your life in order, and as you go, it becomes a habit and you learn to internalize the wish to get things done and it becomes an intrinsic part of you in the end.
Furthermore, that "quality girl" won't even know that I used to have an "unresponsible" attitude before meeting her. All she sees is who I am now that I met her. She doesn't know that SHE is the reason I've changed, she hasn't seen me before I was with her lol. So as far as she knows, I've ALWAYS been responsible and all that haha. No need for her to know that she's the cause of it, which would inflate her ego and raise her perceived sense of power over me...

What I'm trying to say (to myself) is: Don't focus too much on the idea that you should FIRST fix yourself and get your life in order, and THEN you'll be able to get (and keep) a quality girl. Perhaps you can get the quality girl sooner and improve yourself as you go along. Akin to the idea that a woman is attracted to a guy even before he achieves his ambitions, as long as she sees that he HAS the ambitions and is actively working on them...

I'm really just talking to myself here and thinking out loud, but feel free to chime in, guys.

I just want to make more out of my life and have a meaningful relationship with a woman. Sometimes I think I can't achieve the former before I achieve the latter (so, I need a meaningful relationship with a woman, which will energize me and motivate me to make more out of my life), but other times I feel I can't achieve the latter before I achieve the former (so, I need to make more out of my life and that will attract a quality woman and allow me to have a meaningful relationship).
They're two separate goals, but they influence each other, and perhaps it's a limiting thought to assume that there's a linear causal relationship between the two, where one has to precede the other. Perhaps they're both part of the same process and there's more of a circular relationship between the two...

Enough thinking for today!!!
 
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Epic Days

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A goddamn lot.

That word when played over and over in ur mind will influence how you interact with ALL women and that will directly affect you in the end.

It's like always saying planes are dangerous and could fall anytime, over and over until it's programmed into ur subconscious.

And the result is either you don't ever fly or when you do its like one of those people with fear of flying - with panic attacks.

You get what I'm saying bro?

It's counter productive.
Very astute post. Pay attention to this. This is true.
 

zekko

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It seems you're either the guy she wants to fvck or you're the guy she wants to have a stable, long term relationship with (but it requires you to be a loser!).
I've seen this sentiment expressed many, many times on this forum, and every time I do I think it's ridiculous. Which is not to say there isn't some truth to it in a general way, but the best guy IMO is the guy who is both the sex guy AND the guy she wants to keep around. Not to keep around to wait on her and serve her needs, but because you're actually the type of man she wants. I think you're being too cynical by not at least recognizing this as an option.

You know enough that you should be able to be desirable while being aware of the pitfalls of longer relationships, and should be able to avoid them. That doesn't mean you'll succeed, but you never know. This type of guy is supposedly fairly rare. Most guys just follow the "Get an easier life and assume she is always right" advice that they get from sitcoms.
 
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Die Hard

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I've seen this sentiment expressed many, many times on this forum, and every time I do I think it's ridiculous. Which is not to say there isn't some truth to it in a general way, but the best guy IMO is the guy who is both the sex guy AND the guy she wants to keep around. Not to keep around to wait on her and serve her needs, but because you're actually the type of man she wants. I think you're being too cynical by not at least recognizing this as an option.

You know enough that you should be able to be desirable while being aware of the pitfalls of longer relationships, and should be able to avoid them. That doesn't mean you'll succeed, but you never know. This type of guy is supposedly fairly rare. Most guys just follow the "Get an easier life and assume she is always right" advice that they get from sitcoms.
Of course it's an option to be both the sex guy and the guy she wants to keep around, some sort of combination of the jerk and the nice guy, let's say. And on paper, that should be the guy a woman would most prefer. However, in practice most women seem to go for either one of the opposites rather than the combination... One for sex/superficial fling/emotional rush and the other for a stable relationship...

I believe the latter has to do with the fear of not being in control. Many women seem to prefer a relationship with a guy who won't give her too much trouble, a guy who is easier to be manipulated/controlled. It's the safer choice... In a sense, it's exactly the same as for us men, when we say we prefer a modest, agreeable "good" girl for a stable relationship over some mouthy, hot and sexy stripper girl.

In fact, it doesn't even have to come down to those two specific types. I believe many women simply choose a guy who is less desirable (but desirable enough!) over a guy who is extremely desirable. When she meets a guy who is almost perfect in the overall assessment (I mean the whole combination of looks, status, intelligence, character traits and everything else), that guy makes her very uncomfortable. She feels he is too good for her, she worries that he might leave her because she isn't good enough for him, she fears his high confidence and self esteem because a guy with very high confidence and self esteem is more difficult to control etc.

Just think of the following situation: A girl does something that offends the guy or makes him feel bad in some manner. Doesn't matter whether she did it intentionally or not, if the guy has proper self respect, he will tell her the thing she did was not cool. However, if he is afraid to get into an argument with her and suspects she might get angry for him pointing out what she did wrong, he'll let it slide "to keep the peace".
Many women will prefer the latter guy, someone who doesn't give her too much trouble. They prefer an easygoing guy. And this almost necessarily means they prefer a guy who is maybe a bit lower in value than a guy who is extremely high value.
In a relationship, the person who needs the other the least, controls the relationship and has it easier... As a man, you don't want a girl who is too high maintenance either, right? You don't want a girl who requires too much effort to keep her satisfied. And if her sexual market value is a lot higher than yours, or her PERCEIVED sexual market value is higher than yours and she has high confidence/self esteem, she will set high standards for a guy to be in a relationship with him.
High standards = bigger chance for you not to meet them = bigger chance for you being unable to keep her. This will make you insecure and uncomfortable, so it's smarter to pick a girl who is a bit easier to retain.

That's it, many women do just that. They pick a guy who is a little less perfect over a guy who is perfect, because the first guy is easier to maintain a relationship with.

So if you're that perfect guy who combines the sex guy and the nice guy, you may be too perfect for her. She'll rather pick a nice guy for a relationship and occasionally go on a girl's night out to mess around with the sex guy, rather than have a relationship with a guy who combines those two.

Not sure if I'm making sense, I don't have that much time to think about my words right now.
 

Die Hard

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Actually, I'm running into the same problem myself. As I explained, I'm done with the superfical girls who only offer me a hormonal rush. I want a girl who has more to offer, someone with values, great personality, who I can have a stable relationship with. At the same time, I notice it's hard to find such a girl who ALSO has high sex appeal and is pretty.

But there's one in my social circle who kinda fits that image. She always seems interested in me but I used to disregard her because she is not that sexy, she wears unattractive clothes (not ugly clothes but just clothes that don't accentuate her curves etc. Clothes that you would wear if you DO NOT want guys' attention, doesn't use much make-up, acts kinda controlled and business-like instead of flirty. In fact, she has a pretty face and her body is okay. I guess face 7.5/8 and body 7. But the way she presents herself, both in looks as in behavior, is just very bland. She acts like a robot, lol, there's just no excitement.

At the same time, she's very sweet, kinda shy, seems like someone with good moral values, wants to make the world a better place, has a good heart, very decent, very kind, someone who's honest. I think she'd be a great girlfriend in that regard, I rate her very highly regarding her personality traits. But yeah, very low sex appeal. It's more like I'd choose her as my girlfriend because my rational brain tells me she is a suitable partner, rather than my body/hormonal system/instinct telling me I feel attracted to her and want to kiss her have sex with her etc.

However, I recently saw her wearing some tight jeans and heels, wearing a bit more make-up etc. And she actually did look kinda hot! So I've been thinking about her lately and actually have been trying to convince myself that I should pursue her.
So I ran into her last week and took a good look at her from a distance, lol. She was looking good and I told myself "Dude, she might actually be what you want. She's been in front of you all this time you've known her but you always looked past her because she's so bland. But honestly, look at her, she's quite nice man! And she has those personality traits that you so desperately wish for in a woman!"

And then I turned beta................. It's so fvcking ironic! I kinda realized that she might come close to the unicorn that we're all looking for. The rare quality girl among all the worthless garbage girls. And it turned me into a beta.... I've never been nervous around her before, in fact I always kinda felt sorry for her when she showed signs of interest and I didn't reciprocate, lol. I always perceived her as uninteresting and therefor acted totally confident towards her, whereas she was often acting a little insecure towards me.
But now it was totally different, I was nervous and acted a bit insecure. In fact, there were some moments where it seems like she found me unattractive, the way women see "nice guys" as unattractive and put them in the friendzone...

Basically, I kinda messed up the whole interaction. Was thinking about making a move, like asking her number or whatever. But I got fearful of rejection and it made me hesitate. It was kinda cringeworthy.... I feel like I failed and am totally ashamed of myself... What a fiasco! I almost felt like 14 year old me who had a crush on a girl in high school and didn't dare speak to her! WTF?!?!?!

This was very confronting. I handle hot chicks confidently all the time, but now I turn into a beta with this one. It's exactly because I see her as potential girlfriend material... She actually might have something to offer besides superficial pleasure. And that means she's rare, that she might present a rare chance, which means there's actually something at stake when I try to get her. And that causes outcome dependancy and nervousness when I interact with her. Whereas there was none of that before!! But yeah, now I consider her almost as if she's the solution to this strong displeasement with women that's been constantly bugging me for a while now. Which puts her on a pedestal and ruins everything anyway.... So I guess I do need to work on myself first, the feeling of displeasement comes from a deep desire to experience a healthy stable relationship, which find its roots in a very disturbed relationship with my parents as a child. So I guess I got to go back to the core.....

Anyway, my point is that I kind of encounter the same issue I talked about in the beginning of this post. When you meet someone who seems to have it all, you become insecure, to the point of self-sabotage. I've dated or had relationships with a lot of crappy women (personality wise), most of them had low self esteem and were total drama queens. I've almost never dated an emotionally healthy girl with good moral values, high self esteem etc. Why? Because deep down I'm afraid of them.... Deep down I feel I'm not good enough for them, that I don't deserve them, that I don't have what it takes to make them consider me as their boyfriend (which is exactly what many women experience when they encounter a really great guy and makes them choose a less perfect guy, if you ask me).

I think that's also why I feel aversion to being the sex guy. I've had plenty of encounters where I knew girls wanted to fvck me, but only just that, fvck me.... Some had a boyfriend, some just wanted no relationship with anyone, whatever. And I've capitalized on the opportunity sometimes, but it always left me with a negative feeling. Why does she only want to fvck me? Am I not good enough to be her boyfriend? It messes with my self esteem, basically. In a way, I want to feel validated by knowing that a girl is interested in a relationship with me. If she's not interested in that, I feel there's something "wrong" with me, as if I'm not good enough for her to consider me as a boyfriend. Yeah I know, never look for validation, that's beta and puts you in a weak position, plus she'll see that and lose attraction for you blahblah. But I can tell myself 100 times that I don't need that validation, in the meantime I still feel like I need it deep down inside. I can supress that need and forcefully ignore it to the point that I'm not aware of it anymore, but it's still there at my core, in my subconcsious. And the subconscious has a way of sabotaging you from within when it feels you are ignoring it....

And in fact, there IS something wrong with me that makes me not good enough to be considered as her boyfriend.... I do have issues and would say I'm emotionally unhealthy. I've been emotionally abused as a child and it has left scars and makes me less capable of forming healthy emotional attachments to women. I attract emotionally damaged girls like honey attracts bees, because they and me are alike.
No "good" girl, who had a warm loving family and healthy emotional relationship to her parents, will be attracted to me. Deep down, I know this and I fear it when I meet such a girl, like the one I mentioned earlier. I feel that she's too good for me, that I don't have what it takes to obtain her (or once obtained, to keep her).... So I tend to choose (largely unconsciously) "easier" targets. Girls with low self esteem, who are emotionally damaged, act irresponsible, need to be corrected like little children all the time (but never change their behavior anyway, lol). They're trash.... But maybe I deserve no better, because I'm trash myself....
 

Die Hard

Master Don Juan
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I hate thinking about this. It's like a very uncomfortable truth about myself that I'd rather ignore. In daily life, I'm not insecure or incompetent by any means! Not in my personal relationships, my work or my hobbies. People always like to be around me, guys as well as girls. And I actually do very well with women, on a more superficial level.... But I guess that's just the upper layer of myself, the layer that interacts with the outside world in daily life. When the deeper layer of myself gets uncovered, I become unstable. Which mainly happens with regard to establishing a connection to a woman.

And that last paragraph reads exactly like a high-functioning BPD.... Which makes me cringe!

I just feel empty, you know? Daily life masks that feeling....work, friends, hobbies, women etc. As long as you stay busy, you're alright. But under the surface there's always that nagging feeling that something seriously lacks in my life. I've learned to be "happy" on my own, not needing some "significant other". Girls come and go, they're just passersby. I don't really connect to them or let them become part of my life. Partly because the ones I get involved with are not "worthy" of that. I'm not gonna form an emotional connection to a girl who's not a good girl, and I'm not gonna let her into my life either, that would be foolish.

But that doesn't mean that deep down I wouldn't like it to happen. It would be nice to share a genuine connection to someone, right? One where you aren't constantly worried by getting fvcked over by her.... Would also be nice to allow someone into your life and at the same time you becoming part of her life, right? Harmony, balance, stability.... It's nice to have a genuine relationship with someone, right?

Like I said, daily life and superficial contact with women kinda keeps you busy and masks that desire for a genuine relationship. But the desire is there under the surface, regardless.

Self-improvement in all parts of life brings you a long way. But I suspect it's not enough for me to really get me where I want to be in life. I need to experience a healthy, meaningful connection to a woman. Or women (plural). Don't care whether it's one woman for a very long time or several women over the years, but I need to experience something like that. And as I get older, I seriously start wondering whether I want to live life just for myself or whether I am going to start a family and raise kids. If the latter is to be the case, then I DEFINITELY need to form a healthy long term connection to a woman!

I think "happiness" does come down to continuous self-improvement in all aspects of life. But in my case, that must also include some deep therapy, trying to fix some serious issues at my core. Unless I solve that piece of the puzzle, all the other elements of self-improvement seem to be useless, or insufficient anyway. And I don't think I can ever experience a healthy relationship with a woman as long as I don't solve thoser deeper issues at my core either.

So I'm going to look for a good therapist. Needs to be a guy and definitely needs to be a "red pill" guy... Good luck with that in this day and age, lol. But let's see...
 

RetiredArchitect

Don Juan
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Actually, I'm running into the same problem myself. As I explained, I'm done with the superfical girls who only offer me a hormonal rush. I want a girl who has more to offer, someone with values, great personality, who I can have a stable relationship with. At the same time, I notice it's hard to find such a girl who ALSO has high sex appeal and is pretty.

But there's one in my social circle who kinda fits that image. She always seems interested in me but I used to disregard her because she is not that sexy, she wears unattractive clothes (not ugly clothes but just clothes that don't accentuate her curves etc. Clothes that you would wear if you DO NOT want guys' attention, doesn't use much make-up, acts kinda controlled and business-like instead of flirty. In fact, she has a pretty face and her body is okay. I guess face 7.5/8 and body 7. But the way she presents herself, both in looks as in behavior, is just very bland. She acts like a robot, lol, there's just no excitement.

At the same time, she's very sweet, kinda shy, seems like someone with good moral values, wants to make the world a better place, has a good heart, very decent, very kind, someone who's honest. I think she'd be a great girlfriend in that regard, I rate her very highly regarding her personality traits. But yeah, very low sex appeal. It's more like I'd choose her as my girlfriend because my rational brain tells me she is a suitable partner, rather than my body/hormonal system/instinct telling me I feel attracted to her and want to kiss her have sex with her etc.

However, I recently saw her wearing some tight jeans and heels, wearing a bit more make-up etc. And she actually did look kinda hot! So I've been thinking about her lately and actually have been trying to convince myself that I should pursue her.
So I ran into her last week and took a good look at her from a distance, lol. She was looking good and I told myself "Dude, she might actually be what you want. She's been in front of you all this time you've known her but you always looked past her because she's so bland. But honestly, look at her, she's quite nice man! And she has those personality traits that you so desperately wish for in a woman!"

And then I turned beta................. It's so fvcking ironic! I kinda realized that she might come close to the unicorn that we're all looking for. The rare quality girl among all the worthless garbage girls. And it turned me into a beta.... I've never been nervous around her before, in fact I always kinda felt sorry for her when she showed signs of interest and I didn't reciprocate, lol. I always perceived her as uninteresting and therefor acted totally confident towards her, whereas she was often acting a little insecure towards me.
But now it was totally different, I was nervous and acted a bit insecure. In fact, there were some moments where it seems like she found me unattractive, the way women see "nice guys" as unattractive and put them in the friendzone...

Basically, I kinda messed up the whole interaction. Was thinking about making a move, like asking her number or whatever. But I got fearful of rejection and it made me hesitate. It was kinda cringeworthy.... I feel like I failed and am totally ashamed of myself... What a fiasco! I almost felt like 14 year old me who had a crush on a girl in high school and didn't dare speak to her! WTF?!?!?!

This was very confronting. I handle hot chicks confidently all the time, but now I turn into a beta with this one. It's exactly because I see her as potential girlfriend material... She actually might have something to offer besides superficial pleasure. And that means she's rare, that she might present a rare chance, which means there's actually something at stake when I try to get her. And that causes outcome dependancy and nervousness when I interact with her. Whereas there was none of that before!! But yeah, now I consider her almost as if she's the solution to this strong displeasement with women that's been constantly bugging me for a while now. Which puts her on a pedestal and ruins everything anyway.... So I guess I do need to work on myself first, the feeling of displeasement comes from a deep desire to experience a healthy stable relationship, which find its roots in a very disturbed relationship with my parents as a child. So I guess I got to go back to the core.....

Anyway, my point is that I kind of encounter the same issue I talked about in the beginning of this post. When you meet someone who seems to have it all, you become insecure, to the point of self-sabotage. I've dated or had relationships with a lot of crappy women (personality wise), most of them had low self esteem and were total drama queens. I've almost never dated an emotionally healthy girl with good moral values, high self esteem etc. Why? Because deep down I'm afraid of them.... Deep down I feel I'm not good enough for them, that I don't deserve them, that I don't have what it takes to make them consider me as their boyfriend (which is exactly what many women experience when they encounter a really great guy and makes them choose a less perfect guy, if you ask me).

I think that's also why I feel aversion to being the sex guy. I've had plenty of encounters where I knew girls wanted to fvck me, but only just that, fvck me.... Some had a boyfriend, some just wanted no relationship with anyone, whatever. And I've capitalized on the opportunity sometimes, but it always left me with a negative feeling. Why does she only want to fvck me? Am I not good enough to be her boyfriend? It messes with my self esteem, basically. In a way, I want to feel validated by knowing that a girl is interested in a relationship with me. If she's not interested in that, I feel there's something "wrong" with me, as if I'm not good enough for her to consider me as a boyfriend. Yeah I know, never look for validation, that's beta and puts you in a weak position, plus she'll see that and lose attraction for you blahblah. But I can tell myself 100 times that I don't need that validation, in the meantime I still feel like I need it deep down inside. I can supress that need and forcefully ignore it to the point that I'm not aware of it anymore, but it's still there at my core, in my subconcsious. And the subconscious has a way of sabotaging you from within when it feels you are ignoring it....

And in fact, there IS something wrong with me that makes me not good enough to be considered as her boyfriend.... I do have issues and would say I'm emotionally unhealthy. I've been emotionally abused as a child and it has left scars and makes me less capable of forming healthy emotional attachments to women. I attract emotionally damaged girls like honey attracts bees, because they and me are alike.
No "good" girl, who had a warm loving family and healthy emotional relationship to her parents, will be attracted to me. Deep down, I know this and I fear it when I meet such a girl, like the one I mentioned earlier. I feel that she's too good for me, that I don't have what it takes to obtain her (or once obtained, to keep her).... So I tend to choose (largely unconsciously) "easier" targets. Girls with low self esteem, who are emotionally damaged, act irresponsible, need to be corrected like little children all the time (but never change their behavior anyway, lol). They're trash.... But maybe I deserve no better, because I'm trash myself....
Expectations my brother, whether it’s good or bad.

Keep your eyes open but don’t put any expectations on the future, it can chase away girls you are interested in or misjudge good girls who you might judge wrong as being hot bimbos
 

RetiredArchitect

Don Juan
Joined
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After a further read, I see and empathise with what you are going through.

There is nothing more exciting than meeting a new girl and feeling the intrigue and idealisation that comes from her. In this moment it is up to you in terms how you frame your future with her, the way you plan and think in your mind about her will have inverse results to what you want.

Focus on being a social and kind person that conveys the strengths that these girls are interested in. Deep down a lot of women are timid and insecure, so if you try and act like an alpha male around them; you can create anxiety in them.

I suggest maybe you do some activities you have always wanted to do or potentially share how you are feeling emotionally with a professional.

The weight you have on your heart is something I can tell you want to share with a lover and have her accept you for it. Truth is that no woman deep down wants to know about the storm in a mans heart, she will never be interested in substituting the love of a lost parent with hers.

You have brothers on this forum that want to see you do well, however like women we cannot fill that void in your heart until you accept yourself as who you are on calm and boring days.

Have fun and look to treat people well, do not split women into wifey or hoe category and do not look for someone to put the weight of your heart on unless they are a trained professional
 
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