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RetiredArchitect

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After a further read, I see and empathise with what you are going through.

There is nothing more exciting than meeting a new girl and feeling the intrigue and idealisation that comes from her. In this moment it is up to you in terms how you frame your future with her, the way you plan and think in your mind about her will have inverse results to what you want.

Focus on being a social and kind person that conveys the strengths that these girls are interested in. Deep down a lot of women are timid and insecure, so if you try and act like an alpha male around them; you can create anxiety in them.

I suggest maybe you do some activities you have always wanted to do or potentially share how you are feeling emotionally with a professional.

The weight you have on your heart is something I can tell you want to share with a lover and have her accept you for it. Truth is that no woman deep down wants to know about the storm in a mans heart, she will never be interested in substituting the love of a lost parent with hers.

You have brothers on this forum that want to see you do well, however like women we cannot fill that void in your heart until you accept yourself as who you are on calm and boring days.

Have fun and look to treat people well, do not split women into wifey or hoe category and do not look for someone to put the weight of your heart on unless they are a trained professional
 

zekko

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Of course it's an option to be both the sex guy and the guy she wants to keep around, some sort of combination of the jerk and the nice guy, let's say. And on paper, that should be the guy a woman would most prefer. However, in practice most women seem to go for either one of the opposites rather than the combination... One for sex/superficial fling/emotional rush and the other for a stable relationship...

I believe the latter has to do with the fear of not being in control.
Regarding the bolded part: But is that because that is their preference? Or is it because the combination is rare and hard to find?

That said, there is always some variation in people when it comes to attraction, which is one reason I never take these hard and fast PUA rules too seriously. But you're right, some women want to be in control. Still, we're told that women are attracted to strong men, so I find it hard to believe that most women will choose a weak men when they can get a stronger one. Even if logic tells us they can manipulate the weaker man and get an easier life. But logic aside, their emotions alone should draw them more toward the strong man. And we're told women go more by their emotions than logic.

Even if none of that were true, I would still want the best qualities of the sex guy, protector, and provider types. Because those qualities will make MY life better, women or not.
 

Die Hard

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Couldn't be bothered to post or read here for a while.

So what's happened over the last 3 months? Baby steps... Got into therapy, just a few sessions in, not sure yet what to make of my therapist but at least things have been set in motion and I'm committed to make some core changes to myself.

Women have been a minor concern these last 3 months. The focus was on other interests and...myself. But yeah, you run into women regardless, I just didn't put much value onto them. Whether it's women themselves or me not being competent enough to lead them (or the combination of the two), I just didn't see much value in pursuing them anymore. Sex drive never disappeared but that's easily treated with porn and my right hand (as pathetic as that might sound, in a way), so what do I really need women for again? I just looked at them and thought to myself: "How overrated you are... What trouble and stress you cause... How low the return on investment with you..." I just smiled and laughed inside when I looked at them, coz in the past I would always be in this "it's on!" state with beautiful girls around me. Like I HAD to make a good impression on them and HAD to win them over. Now I was like "I'll be just fine whether I succeed with you or not. I don't need you".

I noticed that I got a lot more attention because of this attitude. I guess that's the victory here. But I also noticed that once they bite (as fish bite when you are fishing) I quickly fall back into my old attitude. I become outcome dependent. So I'm only halfway there haha. Can find the right attitude towards women in general, but can't KEEP that attitude once things progress.

Like I said earlier, baby steps. I need to do some serious work on my core before stuff like this will change, I suspect...

There as one girl who basically signalled tome that she would like to meet up and was ready to fvck. She was kind of a 6.5/7 though, and I just didn't feel enthusiastic about her. And I had a date with some other chick but she was way too fickle and the same kined of crazy emotionally disturbed type That I always attract. Nice date, ended up kissing etc. good chemistry. She seemed eager to meet again but she started playing too many texting games, rapidly prolonging her response times and eventually going off air for a few days (while she responded very quickly before). On top of all the other red flags, this just did it for me. Told her I was done with her and wished her all the best. Had already written her off as anything long term. Thought about fvcking her just once and then be done with it. But that one time in bed isn't worth dealing with the texting games and bullshyt. I get too frustrated buy that shyt. That's on me I guess, been trying to get better at dealing with that bullshyt for years but just can't do it. If she had long term value, I guess I'd have motivation to deal with this bullshyt. But just to get in her panties? Fvck off... Go bother some other dude with that stuff.

Gotta admit I'm tempted to think of this as another "negative" experience with women, **** EM ALL, LEAVE ME ALONE! But I notice I still have that attitude in reach that I had for almost 3 months, where I'm okay whether I do or don't succeed with women. It doesn't go without a struggle but I feel I can get back to that attitude. It's like a safe haven I can return to, in a way.

So yeah, things like that can be regarded as progress. In the past, I always fell into a void, like a big black hole of chaos, if I had no success with women. Now I'm developing some sort of inner peace that I can get into, instead of that black hole. Like an army base that you can return to after going on a mission in the desert. Developing tools like these, getting better at navigating situations, it's progress. Maybe once my safe core is strong enough, that allows me to become better at not giving a fvck about texting games? But really, these things go very slowly, it's really just baby steps. I have a lot of work ahead of me...
 
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AttackFormation

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"Wage slave" is a term not yet mentioned on this thread. I saw a lot of nerdy guys in law school who were hopeless with women, but graduated and passed the bar exam, and suddenly had a pretty wife...what a coincidence. When trying to make partner, a young attorney is expected to bill 60-80 hours a week, which means working 100+ hours. The wife gets to pop out a kid or two and spend all her time with them, and hardly ever even have to see her husband. It is a lot of reward for very little work. By the way, I see the pics scroll by on facebook, and those same guys are on the aging fast track. I was about ten years older than them when we were in school ten years ago. Now most of them look older than me. They are selling their souls for wealth that the wife could take away with divorce whenever she wants.
Any update on these guys Bible?
 

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Die Hard

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Sounds like a good progression. Keep it up man!
Thanks for the support!

I'm getting a sh!tload of attention from women around me this last week. Some of them push my limits when it comes to patience and keeping myself in check. For example, when they play hard to get but totally overdo it to the point where it just kills your vibe instead of raising your interest, or when they don't surrender to my frame and try to get me to surrender to their frame, or when they show interest and then go talking to another dude to make you jaleous, stuff like that.

I've always stood my ground in those situations and remained calm on the outside, but there would be big frustration inside of me.
But now I'm able to dissolve that frustration, I just see it all as a game and keep returning to my core feeling that I am just fine whether chicks co-operate with me or not.

Basic DJ stuff, she either co-operates or you NEXT her and move on to another one. Simple theory but not so easy in practice...it would always get to me when I failed to get a girl while she initially showed high interest. No I just tell myself "Whatever... Who cares? It's her loss"

Moreover, I kinda give off that vibe from the moment I start interacting with a woman. She kinda knows upfront that this is my attitude, from the way I carry myself. This in and of itself raises their interest, it seems.

I'm literally just experiencing all of this since the last week or two, it's new territory but very interesting haha. Haven't been on a date in three months but now I've been making out with two different girls in the last ten days. So let's see if I can keep this momentum going.
 

Die Hard

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Just want to record this for myself and perhaps it has worth to others...

The thing that set this process in motion was my desire to have a meaningful relationship with a woman. I kinda evaluated women on that criterium and the result was that most women don't fit the criterium and therefor are low value to me. Sex/superficial interactions kinda lost their meaning to me. And since that is the only thing most women have to offer, I don't feel very outcome-dependent while interacting with them anymore either.

It's like: "What's the worst thing that could happen while I try to impress this woman before me? If I fail to impress her or fail to 'win her over', what does that mean? Well, that I won't be able to get sex or superficial pleasure from her. And since I don't really value those things (as opposed to having a meaningful connection to a woman) what do I care if I fail with her? She doesn't have anything substantial to offer anyway, so BIG DEAL!"

I guess this is what enables me to be not so outcome-dependent with women and able to return to the core feeling of "I'll be okay whether I'm succesful with this girl or not".

So it's rooted in the desire to have a meaningful connection with a woman, and the honest acceptance of that desire, instead of telling yourself that you don't need it. I do need it and I accept that, whereas I used to see that as a weakness, a desire that must be ignored because it is foolish. And while it might be true that it is a foolish desire which perhaps should be dissolved (ignoring it is not dissolving it! Burying something isn't the same as dissolving something), at this point it seems total acknowledgment of that desire was a good first step because it has set things in motion towards.......progress. What follows from here on and what should be the next steps, I don't know. I'll learn as I'm going.

That's my analysis for now, not sure if it's correct. Whatever the inner mechanics are, I feel things are going in the right direction for me, slowly...
 
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mrgoodstuff

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Just want to record this for myself and perhaps it has worth to others...

The thing that set this process in motion was my desire to have a meaningful relationship with a woman. I kinda evaluated women on that criterium and the result was that most women don't fit the criterium and therefor are low value to me. Sex/superficial interactions kinda lost their meaning to me. And since that is the only thing most women have to offer, I don't feel very outcome-dependent while interacting with them anymore either.

It's like: "What's the worst thing that could happen while I try to impress this woman before me? If I fail to impress her or fail to 'win her over', what does that mean? Well, that I won't be able to get sex or superficial pleasure from her. And since I don't really value those things (as opposed to having a meaningful connection to a woman) what do I care if I fail with her? She doesn't have anything substantial to offer anyway, so BIG DEAL!"

I guess this is what enables me to be not so outcome-dependent with women and able to return to the core feeling of "I'll be okay whether I'm succesful with this girl or not".

So it's rooted in the desire to have a meaningful connection with a woman, and the honest acceptance of that desire, instead of telling yourself that you don't need it. I do need it and I accept that, whereas I used to see that as a weakness, a desire that must be ignored because it is foolish. And while it might be true that it is a foolish desire which perhaps should be dissolved, at this point it seems total acknowledgment of that desire has set things in motion towards.......progress.

That's my analysis for now, not sure if it's correct. Whatever the inner mechanics are, I feel things are going in the right direction for me, slowly...
Theres a handful of women that would like to FVCK you and dont need to be convinced or won over.
 

EyeOnThePrize

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@Die Hard you're so in your head it's crazy. So focused on ROI rather than what you can bring to the table and more importantly what you can bring UNCONDITIONALLY. Working on yourself and developing intrinsic value doesn't magically plop girls into your lap, it makes the act of asking them out and facilitating a good time effortless. It only seems like they plop into your lap because you feel like you've done next to nothing.

You can't kill the ego, it's impossible. It's meant to be a feedback mechanism that tells you more about yourself rather than the other person. All this resentment and talk about most girls not giving you what you want is toxic. Focus on being proactive rather than reactive. What @guru1000 described(egoless love) in the literal sense is incredibly easy to achieve because it's a shift of perspective. What can make it challenging is that every person you interact with, every tv show/movie, most music, advertisements, etc, prop up the reactive egocentric ideas that get in the way of that shift. Any company that tells you you're complete and don't need anything external are commiting consumerist/capitalist suicide. The desire for externals is so prevalent that you feel alien when practicing self validation and coming from a place of egoless love. You have to constantly practice the mindset because slipping back into ROI thinking is so easy, you don't even notice it until after the fact when you sense resentment.

I would advise focusing on the present moment, something @guru1000 preaches often. Being present rather than contemplating the future is what will allow you to engage completely, something women crave. Catch yourself when you make assumptions about someone. You are a screen on which consciousness is projected. When a fire is projected you are not burned, when a waterfall is projected you don't get wet. You don't need to identify with thoughts to use thoughts. The only person that can hurt your feelings is yourself. How you choose to interpret things, what you decide to say, and what standards you hold yourself to make all the difference. You can turn a mean woman into a loyal fwb friend willing to do almost anything for you at the drop of a hat, but that can't be your mission.

I'm in the throes of a similar metamorphosis as yourself. I can spout ideals, that's easy, but I also get lost in my head and overanalyze rather than staying present and true to myself. It seems there's an inherent intuition that I've neglected for a long time(the egoless half that @guru1000 refers to). It's extremely uncomfortable and challenging to grow this half because it feels extremely underdeveloped. Then I remember that very judgement of it is the ego again. To radiate strength through vulnerabilities seems so exposed and yet that's exactly what will bring genuine love. To look at love and connection like a scientist marveling at a formation in nature rather than making up stories and then BELIEVING those stories. When you don't come from ego it doesn't matter what the reaction is, your intuition guides you effortlessly.
 

EyeOnThePrize

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Btw I feel paradoxes with a lot of the things I write, so I'm sure it can come off as too idealistic and flowery. I'm constantly reconciling and evolving them in my mind, but not for women, for myself, and not from a place of judgement, more for fun. I'm sure when I've made more progress away from the ego they won't seem paradoxical at all, as that's been the case in the past. I become so in the moment that they don't even come to mind. I think that's the ideal. Life is complex beyond measure, it's easy to get caught up dissecting a black hole.
 
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