"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"

She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.

You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.

She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.

The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.

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5K runs and meeting women

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I have probably done about 30+ races over the last 15 years (5K's, 4 milers, 5 miles) etc. and I have never met a woman through one. The most IOI's I have gotten is the occasional glance.

What has been your experience with these races?

My experience with these races (at least in NJ)

1.) They are very cliquish. Most people don't go to these events solo, women go with their girlfriends or their boyfriends/husbands so they are not there to meet new people.

2.) Like the bar/club scene, the guy to girl ration is closer to 2 to 1.


Yesterday, I did a 5K (with a friend) that had a craft beer festival afterwards. There were a decent number of attractive women there, but again....most were with their male companions. While waiting on line for the race to start, I had an attractive woman in front of me. Her boyfriend (who was on the fat side and not running the race) came up and talked to her. I felt like saying to the guy; "How come your fat ass is not running the race?" (Fat men DO NOT deserve attractive women)
 

"She Laughed All Night. Then She Ghosted You. Here's Why."

Dinner ran three hours. She laughed at everything. You walked her to her car thinking this one's locked in.

Then: nothing. Two texts. No reply. What happened?

You did what most men do on a great date. You filled every silence, answered every question, and left her with nothing to wonder about. No mystery. Nothing to sit with when she got home.

Rule 3 of the "22 Rules" changes the ending: tell her a little, hold back the rest, and let her imagination do the chasing. The ghosting stops too.

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BillyPilgrim

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You're dealing with an activity that is relaxing and produces endorphins without needing to have sex. Might as well try to game at a meditation retreat. These women are not the least bit in any kind of horny mood. If you going to try to use exercise to get laid, do crossfit. Most of the women I've known who are into it have higher than usual sex drives, although they tend to be nuts.
 

BillyPilgrim

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And also, New Jersey. Not the easiest field of broads to game to begin with. Lots of Italianas, Jewesses, Black girls, etc. Where I live it's a mix of midwestern-rooted white girls and latinas. I avoid the aforementioned categories as a general rule.
 

BMX

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Go in on them at the finish line when they look and feel like garbage. They'll be glad anyone recognized their 11th place finish. Not at a 5K but the longer races. But if they are that bad off after a 5K, I'd go find someone else.
 

Peaks&Valleys

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Most high value women will have some type of male company with them at these types of events. Whether it be a husband, bf, orbiter, brother, rando guy they just met 5 minutes ago, in order to keep them company. I'm not a fan of snaking in on someone else's woman however, a lot of these women are actively looking either overtly or covertly. Just because they have a male companion with them it doesn't necessarily mean they're not open to meeting someone new.
 

"The Coffee Shop Girl You Never Spoke To"

You've replayed it a hundred times. She stood three feet away, scrolling her phone. You had an opening. You composed the perfect line — after she was gone.

For all you know, she's married now. To some guy who said something. Anything.

Openers are cheap. Almost any sentence works when it's delivered within three seconds. The expensive part is the standing there, drafting and deleting, while the window quietly closes.

The "22 Rules" stripped out my hesitation. What to open with, how to keep it alive, and the one habit that costs guys more women than anything else: waiting for perfect.

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Ricky

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I have ran alot too. You have the limited time before the race starts and some people including myself get pre-race jitters.
I have talked to women during the race and really should have number closed once.
After the race there is definitely some time to talk near the finish line.

There are plenty of times where a girl runs a race with her friend and certain races have more women than male participants.

Challenge accepted. I have a race coming up soon.
 

SW15

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And also, New Jersey. Not the easiest field of broads to game to begin with. Lots of Italianas, Jewesses, Black girls, etc. Where I live it's a mix of midwestern-rooted white girls and latinas. I avoid the aforementioned categories as a general rule.
The West Coast White people (esp. Californians) are the biggest problem in your area.

I have probably done about 30+ races over the last 15 years (5K's, 4 milers, 5 miles) etc. and I have never met a woman through one. The most IOI's I have gotten is the occasional glance.

What has been your experience with these races?
Never done one, but a lot of sports have similar issues to what you're describing.

At least running in general has a decent ratio but the races may not have that.

Co-ed sports leagues can be problematic too. A lot of men sign up for kickball, softball, and volleyball and end up not getting dates or getting laid from it.

My experience with these races (at least in NJ)

1.) They are very cliquish. Most people don't go to these events solo, women go with their girlfriends or their boyfriends/husbands so they are not there to meet new people.

2.) Like the bar/club scene, the guy to girl ration is closer to 2 to 1.
Neither of these things are surprising and common parts of trying to meet women through sports. I don't think this is New Jersey specific.
 
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BillyPilgrim

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The West Coast White people (esp. Californians) are the biggest problem in your area.



Never done one, but a lot of sports have similar issues to what you're describing.

At least running has a decent ratio. There are plenty of sports I can name with worse ratios.

Co-ed sports leagues can be problematic too. A lot of men sign up for kickball, softball, and volleyball and end up not getting dates or getting laid from it.
If I see a chick in Arizona who is from California, it's pretty much a no-go lol.

Briefly, there is a bit of a misconception about transplanted Calfornians. Most of the ones who have fled are conservative by CA standards. Most states turning purple or blue are due to the youth miseducated by leftist teachers.
 

SW15

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If I see a chick in Arizona who is from California, it's pretty much a no-go lol.
Makes sense. Native Arizonans are a little bit better than Californians, but even many of them have bad attitudes.
 

BillyPilgrim

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Makes sense. Native Arizonans are a little bit better than Californians, but even many of them have bad attitudes.
By big city standards, Phx/Scottsdale is bland and lacking culture. Therefore, status is overemphasized, but mostly relegated to Scottsdale and the wealthy East Valley suburbs - which are essentially the same patch of hot desert, but with slightly better architecture. NPC's have a hard time seeing this though, they act like Scottsdale is La Jolla when the scenery pales in comparison to even Palm Springs.
 
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"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"

You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.

And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.

Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.

The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.

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jaymbrs

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Do you run by yourself? The runs I’ve been on it’s usually with a group of about 3-5 people and we always get a chance to mingle with others after the race. Easy opportunity to talk to women.
 
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I have ran alot too. You have the limited time before the race starts and some people including myself get pre-race jitters.
I have talked to women during the race and really should have number closed once.
After the race there is definitely some time to talk near the finish line.

There are plenty of times where a girl runs a race with her friend and certain races have more women than male participants.

Challenge accepted. I have a race coming up soon.
Yeah, I get pre-race jitters as well (so talking to women before the race is not on my mind) since I know I have a world of pain coming my way. A 5K is still tough when you hit that wall at around the 2-mile mark.
 

SW15

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By big city standards, Phx/Scottsdale is bland and lacking culture. Therefore, status is overemphasized, but mostly relegated to Scottsdale and the wealthy East Valley suburbs - which are essentially the same patch of hot desert, but with slightly better architecture.
All true. I plan to expand on this post in the Phoenix thread....


Like the bar/club scene, the guy to girl ration is closer to 2 to 1.
There are plenty of women walkers/runners. Why do you think the male to female ratio at 5k races is terrible?

When I ride bicycle paths in my city, male bicyclists seem to outnumber female bicyclists around 8 to 1.

Tennis is a sausage fest too in a lot of cases, but it has the reputation of being female friendly.

Volleyball is probably the best sport for meeting women.
 

"She Wants a Man, Not a Boy"

You asked her if she wanted to grab coffee. Then you asked if the time worked. Then you asked if the place was okay. Then you asked if she'd prefer tea.

Four questions. Four chances for her to say no. Four signals that you're terrified of making a decision.

Plan it. Pick the place. Pick the time. Tell her where to meet you. She'll either show up or she won't.

Either way, you look like a man instead of a scared little boy.

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All true. I plan to expand on this post in the Phoenix thread....




There are plenty of women walkers/runners. Why do you think the male to female ratio at 5k races is terrible?

When I ride bicycle paths in my city, male bicyclists seem to outnumber female bicyclists around 8 to 1.

Tennis is a sausage fest too in a lot of cases, but it has the reputation of being female friendly.

Volleyball is probably the best sport for meeting women.
Maybe not 2 to 1, but it definitely leans towards men 60/40 or so and I don't know why.
 
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I guess it's easier to stare at a woman's ass or tits without being obvious when you are passing quickly on a bike ;)
 

Peaks&Valleys

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I guess it's easier to stare at a woman's ass or tits without being obvious when you are passing quickly on a bike ;)
Two things you don't stare at without sunglasses:

1: The Sun

2: Boobs
 

BMX

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People trying to get skinny fat. No thanks
This. It's been discussed long before on T-Nation's forums. Find another hobby OP. You'd have more fun pulling straight women from gay bars.
 

"I just moved here from Florida."

That sentence contains at least five follow-up questions she WANTS you to ask. Where in Florida? What brought you here? How long have you been in the area? What do you miss? How does it compare to here?

She handed them to you on a silver platter. And you said, "Oh cool. I come here every week. I love this band. Ummm... pretty crowded tonight."

She smiled politely. Nodded. And never texted you back.

I was that guy for years. Talking too much. Listening too little. Panicking about my next sentence while she was literally feeding me the answers.

Then I found 22 rules that fixed the whole thing. Rule number one: shut up and listen. She'll tell you exactly what to say.

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