Most dating and pickup coaches are trash.
Absolutely TRUE.
I've met some of the big names like Tyler Durden, Papa, Julien... And others like Zan, some Mystery Method coaches... Some were actually HORRIBLE, some were mediocre.
Aaron Sleazy wrote a free book about how seduction community is largely a scam. He's giving it for free as a PDF here:
https://www.aaronsleazy.com/files/Aaron.Sleazy.Debunking.The.Seduction.Community.pdf
He writes there
"Even many of the big names are a lot worse than you may think."
Me and many other people have experienced the same - we met some of the big names and it turned out that they are mediocre or even SUCK with women.
A friend of mine met Mystery - he said that Mystery is
competent, he has skills, but he's also
horribly overrated. He said he knows many guys (mostly naturals) who are better than Mystery.
BTW It's not just the coaches.... There is also a kind of toxic guys who don't get money from this, but they lie and pretend to be good with women to fulfil some retarded emotional needs. They want to somehow feel "respected", be seen as sexually successful or something like that. These guys are actually more insidious, harder to see through than the coaches - because since they're not getting money from it and seemingly have no motive to lie, they seem more suspicious. But they actually have a motive - an emotional one.
There are cases like a guy who was giving seduction advice to others (for free), had 1000+ posts, but later admitted he was a virgin.
I used to think lots of them were 'good' too but over the years and with lots of experience and seeing things in a different light, I think they are basically all trash.
A few are good - but not as good as they pretend to be.
Some are mediocre.
Many are utter trash.
And the funny thing is, even the good ones know most of them are trash, but avoid telling the truth about it, because they don't want to ruin the industry.
There's still people who think mystery or even ross jefferies or Robert Greene or whatever are some sort of 'seduction' God,
Yes. For many people, it's like some kind of RELIGION, where the goal is to uphold the faith and respect/worship the "God", while reality is unimportant and actually "evil" when it contradicts their beliefs.
I've met Tyler Durden from RSD, seen him in action and I was negatively SHOCKED by what I've seen. My impression was that the guy is severely retarded, worse than a total beginner. And when speaking about it, I often encountered ANGER from people who have never met him, but believed he's some kind of seduction guru - and they were furious that I "dare" to speak negatively about their "God". While I simply described what I saw - and if I would have seen something good, I would speak about it also.
The truth is that some of them get results, but it's simply not that impressive.
Yes. The fact that seduction coaches do get laid doesn't mean anything - normal guys also get laid.
And some seduction coaches, or PUAs in general, are good looking - 7/10, etc. And they get successes mostly due to looks, but they say it's due to their game.
They play the same numbers game with the same 'hit rate' as any other random dude.
Of course!
It's like a PUA does 2000 approaches, get's laid with 10 girls - meaning he's got 99.5% FAILURE rate, 0.5% success rate. But he presents it as "skill", while in reality it's number game.
And in such a case, if a PUA enters a relationship with the hottest girl of that 10... She could be really hot and it might look like he's really successful with women, but in reality, she's the best case of out 2000.
Because there IS no ****ing magic 'game' that can force attraction in a girl lol. It's all based on some big lies.
(...)
If they open a girl who clearly isn't receptive, they are powerless. Suddenly their 'attraction material' (negs and dhvs for myster, NLP seduction patterns for jefferies etc) doesn't work.
Yes. It's hard to build attraction/receptiveness with game.
In reality a lot of this is just plays the role of memorised CONTENT - so they have something ready to speak about, there are no awkward silences, etc.
DHV can work, but saying DHV to a woman isn't the same as women believing it - hot women are being told all kinds of nonsense by men trying to get laid with them, and they're used to that.
Real "game" is mostly being able to approach women who find the guy visually acceptable and kind of "making it happen" without stupid mistakes, awkward silences, etc etc. It's actually making it happen
SMOOTHLY. Real "game" is largely approaching + rapport building + closing. While attraction-building is problematic if the guy isn't already attractive on at least acceptable level.
I'm not saying game or social skills do'nt matter at all. But it's not what it's marketed as
Yes - game does matter. But not in the way they market it.
All of the coaches are no better than me or you. If they looked identical to me, or if i looked identical to them, i'd get identical results
Here I will
slightly disagree.
Some coaches actually do have a good social skills and it does have it's impact.
But yes, generally it's more about looks than about skills.
My favorite by far is ToddV, I love his style because it fits with my skills.
Todd is privately in a relationship, has a child with an
UGLY woman.
He has hot women in his videos, but his life partner is
UGLY. Do I have to say more, is it obvious what kind of guy he is?
BTW I have her photos, you can DM me if you wish to see for yourself.
Yeah Todd is pretty decent and respectable,
He's in a relationship with an
UGLY woman - which he is hiding from potential customers.
obviously without a doubt Mystery Method...
dude was a genius and the only coach to actually explain what creates attraction - microcalibrations in behaviour which signal higher value
Mystery is horribly overrated.
BTW Have you seen the pictures of his girlfriend Katya - who he rates as "9.5" in the book "The Game"? (The author of the book is Style, but he quotes Mystery's post in the book). I rate Katya only 6-7, some people give her 8, but I have so far never met a case of anybody agreeing that she's a 9.5.
I've seen many of his other women and some of them are really hot, but many were just common 7s - the guy's reputation as some kind of elite seducer sleeping with the hottest women is really a huge exagerration.
99% are fraudin and delusional as ****kkk.
Yes.
Majority of These gurus are married to a busted wife or over weight girl. Say date younger but married older. Many bash marriage and are secretly married.
I don't know if it's the majority, but certainly know for example Todd (ex-RSD) has a child with an
UGLY woman - which he is hiding from his customers.
I think Julien blanc was a oG in game before banned camp scandal.
I've seen him in action in real life - he was mediocre, not impressive at all.
