Which coaches are the real deal?

Lifeman

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I think we probably have similar opinions in terms of who to listen too and coaches etc.

Lots of the guys people rave about (corey wayne, robert greene, ross jefferies, that rationalmale dude etc etc) are just dudes who wrote books, but do I honestly think any of them are gonna be able to pull the girls in a bar or whatever that I want? Of course not. Writing about different types of 'seducers' or about psychology etc is one thing, but actually being able to pull hot girls is something entirely different, and I wouldn't be scared at all if I was gaming some hot 19 year old, and then one of them guys stepped in whilst I was in the bathroom. I know the reaction they'd get and how it would go

Lots of PUAs who I thought were great back in the day and when I was new, I no longer am impressed when I re-watch their infields.

Basically nobody is blowing my mind or doing much that actually impresses me or that I cant do. Or that any of my friends can't do! They're approaching lots of girls, and when they approach a girl who thinks he's cute or whatever, they have enough game to seal teh deal. Great. But lets not throw them a parade.

Of course there are some that are better than others. I do think Julien is one of the best, personally. I also think Vadim from honest signals is worth a mention. AMS is scared to cold approach and made excuses to not approach a group of young girls who he seemed to be interested in. Just talks a good 'alpha game'. Same with most of the redpillers from what i've seen. Just manly waffle.

But as I say, even the guys who are the very very best, aren't out there doing what much of the material says one can do with game. (effectively 'seduce' whoever they want, in spite of initial attraction) THAT has never been caught on camera, or anywhere else.
Vadim has some good tips, especially with night game.
 

In2theGame

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BadBoy89

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A woman’s drive is manipulation. That means everything she says is by the purpose of her selfishness and manipulation, whether she respects you or not. There is a difference between a guy who is asking you for your age just for a friendly conversation and a difference between a girl asking you for the age for the means of manipulation/ by using it against you later on. Women are never interested in you, they are only interested in how you make them feel. So why would she care then about your age? It’s because manipulation. Women are deceptive by nature and manipulation is their primary weapon. That’s why we look at woman’s actions and not their words
Good post. I would just change the sentence below.

Women are never interested in you, they are only interested in how you make them feel. what you can do for them.
 

IKO69

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Best coach is someone that is actually with you to guide you along. As an undergrad I made friends with this guy that had worked as a bartender. We were in the same program and both Greek so that is what kicked it off. He was really good with women and I would talk to him about this stuff. He never came across a site like this or the material but knew it intuitively. I really learned a lot going out with him and seeing him operate. He would also give me advice on interactions we had with groups of girls. This helped with the talking to girls part and knowing what to look for (in interested women).

I don't want to disparage any of the youtube people- i've seen some good videos that were posted here.

Rom Wills is very solid.
This guy came up on here before I think. I looked him up and yes, the one video saw I was good. Sensible no bull**** advice.
 

James Cruse

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I’ve seen and read ALL of the products, videos, and books mentioned in this thread so far and more over the years.

So far, NONE of them can touch the value and usefulness in the material listed below, in order of the best (of the most useful):

1.) W. Anton - The Manual (the best material on seduction available, in my opinion)

2.) Mike Haines - Godlike Power (with all bonus ebooks, so much gold here)

3.) Michael Marks (The Dating Wizard) - The Dating Wizard Mastery Apprenticeship Program & The Dating Wizard ebook

4.) Woujo - Collection of Posts

5.) Jay Julio - Cool Guy with Women

6.) The Modern Man/Dan Bacon - Becoming a Man That Naturally Attracts Women, Dating Power and Interviews with Naturals

7.) 60 Years of Challenge - Game Revision System

8.) J. D. Fuentes - (Updated) The Sexual Key

9.) Mizu - The Authentic King: Authentic Attraction System

Honorable mentions:
Markus Wolf (UMP) - UMP ebook - tonnes of material but very technical
Gunwitch - Seduction MMA & (Original) Gunwitch Method - good but more gamey than I’d like. Original method is simple
Saul Tee - Technical Game Bible (some good ideas
 

Jesse Pinkman

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LMFAO @James Cruse you are woefully misguided. Wuojo is some sexually frustrated Indian dude who got no sex in his 20s. I have seen UMP do coaching sessions here in Miami, they hired an escort to be their wingwoman.

You should ALL look into JMLUV/John Anthony Lifestyle, total scumbag but overall he is legit in terms of getting laid.
 

logicallefty

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SoSuave
 

James Cruse

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LMFAO @James Cruse you are woefully misguided. Wuojo is some sexually frustrated Indian dude who got no sex in his 20s. I have seen UMP do coaching sessions here in Miami, they hired an escort to be their wingwoman.
Have you actually read Woujo’s posts? He has some very insightful ideas that I’ve found very useful. Some of his material is immature and , I made those comments to him directly.
Woujo is Arab, NOT Indian - so you’re misinformed.

First of all, UMP is in the honorable mentions bud. I live in Australia and Markus Wolf lives near me. I’ve seen him out and met at least 7 of his students and counting and all of them have praised him (not so much Alex) and I see these guys around regularly and they have alot of success. I met one again who just started a LTR with a great girl, ao you don’t have much info there. No idea about the Vegas thing. The problem with their material is there is alot of it and it’s overly gamey.

Do you have ANY comments about the other material I listed or were you just trying to muddy the water? Have you read or watched anything else in that list?

You should ALL look into JMLUV/John Anthony Lifestyle, total scumbag but overall he is legit in terms of getting laid.
I’ve read and listened to all of JMulvs material and he’s a hack fraud. His material is all copied from other people.
Jmulv hasn’t been with thousands of women, his online dating guide is ok at best, but there is better out there and his actual infield pickups are the worst infields I’ve ever seen of anyone in the industry - EVER. His infields are so cringeworthy, I actually feel bad for him.

So no, I really wouldn’t recommend JMulv.
 

Jesse Pinkman

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Have you actually read Woujo’s posts? He has some very insightful ideas that I’ve found very useful. Some of his material is immature and , I made those comments to him directly.
Woujo is Arab, NOT Indian - so you’re misinformed.

First of all, UMP is in the honorable mentions bud. I live in Australia and Markus Wolf lives near me. I’ve seen him out and met at least 7 of his students and counting and all of them have praised him (not so much Alex) and I see these guys around regularly and they have alot of success. I met one again who just started a LTR with a great girl, ao you don’t have much info there. No idea about the Vegas thing. The problem with their material is there is alot of it and it’s overly gamey.

Do you have ANY comments about the other material I listed or were you just trying to muddy the water? Have you read or watched anything else in that list?

I’ve read and listened to all of JMulvs material and he’s a hack fraud. His material is all copied from other people.
Jmulv hasn’t been with thousands of women, his online dating guide is ok at best, but there is better out there and his actual infield pickups are the worst infields I’ve ever seen of anyone in the industry - EVER. His infields are so cringeworthy, I actually feel bad for him.

So no, I really wouldn’t recommend JMulv.
Wuojo posted spam on the red pill reddit about men in their 30s that chase women for being awful people that never got any growing up. Typical Indian incel IMO.

I have met Markus IRL and same with Alex, their students were clearly struggling and not getting results. Eventually, they had to rely on some photographer to get them results from online dating. Again, I am not sure how they are in Australia but in Miami they clearly struggled.

As for JMLUV, what proof do you have that he is a hack fraud?
 

characternote

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LMFAO @James Cruse you are woefully misguided. Wuojo is some sexually frustrated Indian dude who got no sex in his 20s. I have seen UMP do coaching sessions here in Miami, they hired an escort to be their wingwoman.

You should ALL look into JMLUV/John Anthony Lifestyle, total scumbag but overall he is legit in terms of getting laid.
I was with you until you recommended jmulv! He's so so bad. Complete fraud. His infields alone are god awful. And then he was exposed by sonny to have been using sugar babes and hiring girls for his bootcamps so his students thought his lines were working etc. I don't believe he has any 'game' whatsoever. IF he gets laid, it's just a result of playing extreme numbers game on drunk Vegas tourists who maybe like very tall guys lol. Not that there's much wrong with that, but there's certainly no 'skill' or whatever that he has. Then he moved to columbia or somtehing? presumably for white rich privelege game?

His whole 'method' is open' Hi, can I meet you real quick' (bit of a begging opener, plus he mumbles it at 200 mph)
Then he tells her she's cute (direct game so hoping she thinks he's hot otherwise he's done! Again, nothing wrong with it, but how is that skill? same skill as swiping right on tinder!)
Then he pretends that he's a famous DJ (this is the only part I can see as 'game' I guess. A dhv story of sorts)
Then he asks how tall she is so he can mention he's 6ft 4
And finally he asks if she likes grey goose vodka and invites her and her friends back to his house party with his friends
that's basically the method (I see it as a 'method' of getting people to come too a party. Say hi and offer them free drinks in a nutshell)
Most infields have no kissing or anything and i'm sure girls just go back for free drinks (with their girlfriends), or maybe one of her friends fancy one of jmulv's wingmen

Having said that, I agree about woujo and too some extent UMP

Lets be honest. The whole community is kinda nonsense. Nobody out there is some 'seduction master' who can pull basically any girl he wants, even if wearing a realistic latex mask of a fairly unnattractive person lol. It's just a game of finding girls who like how you look, and then having enough 'game' to not drop the ball, BUT the bar is pretty damn low for that. There are no 'experts' kinda thing. I think me or probably anyone on this site has as much game and would get the same results in the body of any PUA 'expert' we can name. Infields show all of them getting rejected a **** load. (including jmulv. Modern Life Dating had so many great jmulv rejections, but john worked hard to get them all taken down. He just goes up to girls, mumbles, gets blown out, again and again)
 
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Bigpapa

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I was with you until you recommended jmulv! He's so so bad. Complete fraud. His infields alone are god awful. And then he was exposed by sonny to have been using sugar babes and hiring girls for his bootcamps so his students thought his lines were working etc. I don't believe he has any 'game' whatsoever. IF he gets laid, it's just a result of playing extreme numbers game on drunk Vegas tourists who maybe like very tall guys lol. Not that there's much wrong with that, but there's certainly no 'skill' or whatever that he has. Then he moved to columbia or somtehing? presumably for white rich privelege game?

His whole 'method' is open' Hi, can I meet you real quick' (bit of a begging opener, plus he mumbles it at 200 mph)
Then he tells her she's cute (direct game so hoping she thinks he's hot otherwise he's done! Again, nothing wrong with it, but how is that skill? same skill as swiping right on tinder!)
Then he pretends that he's a famous DJ (this is the only part I can see as 'game' I guess. A dhv story of sorts)
Then he asks how tall she is so he can mention he's 6ft 4
And finally he asks if she likes grey goose vodka and invites her and her friends back to his house party with his friends
that's basically the method
Most infields have no kissing or anything and i'm sure girls just go back for free drinks, or maybe one of her friends fancy one of jmulv's wingmen
one of my best openers is still “ hey . What”s your name “ , especially for evening / night

it is between direct and indirect , which is perfect because it creates a bit of a mystery
 

James Cruse

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Wuojo posted spam on the red pill reddit about men in their 30s that chase women for being awful people that never got any growing up. Typical Indian incel IMO.
He’s not Indian - he’s Arab and what you just said is a whole lot of nothing.
Zero idea where that is - I have read all of his posts currently on reddit. Can you copy that post here please?


I have met Markus IRL and same with Alex, their students were clearly struggling and not getting results. Eventually, they had to rely on some photographer to get them results from online dating. Again, I am not sure how they are in Australia but in Miami they clearly struggled
Did you actually talk to any of UMP’s students like I did? No. So this is all silly speculationof you seeing these guys from a distance, so you have no idea.
I’ve been to America and trust me, girls in the USA are FAR EASIER to pull than Australian girls and I do well in Australia, as does Markus and his students here.


As for JMLUV, what proof do you have that he is a hack fraud?
I’ve used JMulv’s daygame, nightgame and online game method. His online game program I sent to a few friends and we tried it - no good.

His daygame and nightgame method is abysmal compared to everything else I’ve tried. Even London Daygame Method is better, which is telling because it’s not great either.

Have you seen JMulv’s infields? He’s nervous approaching average girls, his body language and tonality is so bad it’s embarassing, he looks like a scared teenage nerd that’snjust been spanked by his parents. He shakes and is jittery, he’s suprised when the girls he talking to give him a somewhat positive response.

The guy clearly has ZERO confidence, and very little success with women judging by his non-verbals. My friends who know a littlegame have far more confidence and much better body language than Jmulv.

Cringeworthy Jmulv infield:

Now did you have any other comments about the other material I named in my previous post or haven’t you read/seen any of it?
I bet you haven’t if you think JMulv has “helpful” content.
 

James Cruse

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Having said that, I agree about woujo and too some extent UMP

Lets be honest. The whole community is kinda nonsense. Nobody out there is some 'seduction master' who can pull basically any girl he wants, even if wearing a realistic latex mask of a fairly unnattractive person lol. It's just a game of finding girls who like how you look, and then having enough 'game' to not drop the ball, BUT the bar is pretty damn low for that. There are no 'experts' kinda thing. I think me or probably anyone on this site has as much game and would get the same results in the body of any PUA 'expert' we can name. Infields show all of them getting rejected a **** load.
Ok, well again, I said UMP was an honourable mention. Have you read all of Woujo’s posts in his collected posts book? Which ones in particular did you have an issue with?

I’m guessing you haven’t seen or read any or all of the other material I listed?
It’s abit silly to write off material that you haven’t seen and I’m guessing most of it you’ve never heard of, right?
I’ve pretty much rwad and seen everything now and I beleive that’s the best there is out there.

Do you have any recommendations brother?
 

characternote

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Do you have any recommendations brother?
not especially, in that, like I say, once you are socially normal, your success is gonna be down to other variables. Not your 'game'.

Having said that, if I was forced to pick a few people who I at least think are 'good' (but certainly i don't believe there is some super advanced expert level where anyone can do anything that would blow my mind, which infields even confirm! They ALL bang the receptive girls and still get rejected a tonne by the 'no girls') it would maybe be Vadim from 'honest signals'. I think he's decent. There's a few others but i'm drawing a blank. I think the tall guy from UMP is good and I used to really rate him, but when I rewatched all of his infields and stuff years later witha lot of experience under my belt and a fresh pair of eyes, I realised he wasn't doing anything i or anyone here can't do. Pulling girls who are receptive to the open and clearly like how he looks. It's just not difficult!

oh, and julien from RSD. I think he was pretty good too.
 

James Cruse

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not especially, in that, like I say, once you are socially normal, your success is gonna be down to other variables. Not your 'game'.
Reading this, you haven’t seen or read ANY of the material in my recommendations I posted in this thread.

All of them are heavy of inner game and your thoughts about yourself.

I’ve seen all of Vadim’s material, I have all his products and he has fun infields.
But he is average with his instruction.
Vadim is great at doing, evident by his infields but I don’t think he’s good at teaching. He doesn’t really explain what or how he does what he does because I don’t think he really knows. Or if he knows, he doesn’t share it.
Most of his game is flying by the seat of his pants and saying funny things. He usually blows himself out when he tries to add any structure.
He often gets easily intimidated when he approaches groups and usually panics. Weird that a dating coach woild panic when he gets politely challenged by girls in their early 20’s when he approaches a group - especially when that’s his full time job. He can only approach single girls or when he does approach 2 girls, he requires a friend to be there with him or he panics.

Read some of the material I posted, start with ‘The Manual’ because it will be very helpful.
 
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characternote

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i've read 'the manual' lol (anton someone?)

But it doesn't matter. This isn't 2004. The community aren't still out there thinking of game as some sort of jedi mind control where you can force attraction in whoever you want lol. Anton whoever would get rejected just as much as anyone else if he approaches a girl who isn't attracted to him.
 
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