Which coaches are the real deal?

[MtmVaott]

All you need is Doc Love, self-improvement, and practice.

Nothing wrong with Cory Wayne, but his book is boring a fvck... and really it's just Doc Love with sex and Tony Robbins BS.... but it's okay. I guess if I had to recommend anyone, since Tom Hodges (AKA Doc Love) is dead, it would be Wayne. You can get most of his content for free but I don't think I would waste any money with one-on-one coaching with anyone.

@RangerMIke @Glassguy Do you remember a resource before The System appeared, that provided core principles of it?

 

[RangerMIke]

@RangerMIke @Glassguy Do you remember a resource before The System appeared, that provided core principles of it?

I really don't know what happened until Doc Love came on the scene 20 years ago, there was a lot of PUA stuff that was around in the 80s and 90s. I guess the only thing that was popular that came out in the 90s was "Men are from Mars: Women are from Venus" which was a pretty decent book explaining how and why the genders are different, but that book didn't really give advice on what to do with this information. Another book was "The Rules" again which came out in the 90s, that basically was geared towards women, but some of the principles could be applied to men as well... it was basic human behavior stuff... we don't value what is easy, maintaining emotional self control... letting potential partners go when you aren't getting what you want. Put yourself first....

I guess if I had to figure out where the "System" came from it was an expansion of "Men are from Mars: Women are from Venus" and a male targeted presentation of this like "The Rules" were for women.

 

[elitewarrior]

None compare to the late Doc Love. Agree with @RangerMIke , all you need is The System & life experience.

So true

 

[BaronOfHair]

I like Bobby Rio and Rob Judge's advice. It has done me well

Rio, Judge, Scott McKay(A much more skillfull interviewer and writer than instructor, but I digress)and all these fellas who predate The Manosphere and The Great Regression we've been in from '16-today provide invaluable counsel. None claim to be PUAs, or try to sell men on the lie that you'll always be able to snag every hot piece of ass you're lusting after at the moment

 

[oOh Nasty]

No one probably. PUA courses are kind of like millionaire/marketing/get rich coaching courses in that, they'll probably just tell you **** that you can find for free on the internet. Some people may find value in that though. It's kind of like this forum. The base fundamentals of being attractive to women are known to most of us who've been here for awhile. But, sometimes we're able to present things in a different angle or perspective that makes said thing interesting to think about again. When it comes to attracting women, you've got everything you need here on sosuave. The end game seems to be when us dudes start debates on topics such as "looks matter, confidence is key, hms is king, etc."

It would be nice to find another redpill/manosphere/game/women's-nature guru that says things that are unique to what every other guy is saying. Between the tates, fresh and fit, the whatever podcast, rollo, etc...can't say I've heard anything unique for the past few years I've been watching them. I'm always trying to find nuggets of wisdom, but rarely am I ever able to be pleasantly surprised by hearing anything that i'd consider to be groundbreaking. The last guy that had an impact on me, and I think you should all re-visit him when you get a chance, is the Roissy guy from chateau heartiste. He just made the most sense to me and put emphasis on the intricacies of why the dark triad personality is the most attractive to women.

It seems nowadays, most "gurus" are on the trend of just pointing out all the **** that's wrong with women, as if we don't already know. How many times can you point out that a h0e is h0e? And how many times does it need to be said and defended that father figures are important...etc, etc.

 

[CharmingPsychopath]

Most dating and pickup coaches are trash.

Absolutely TRUE.

I've met some of the big names like Tyler Durden, Papa, Julien... And others like Zan, some Mystery Method coaches... Some were actually HORRIBLE, some were mediocre.

Aaron Sleazy wrote a free book about how seduction community is largely a scam. He's giving it for free as a PDF here:

https://www.aaronsleazy.com/files/Aaron.Sleazy.Debunking.The.Seduction.Community.pdf

He writes there "Even many of the big names are a lot worse than you may think."

Me and many other people have experienced the same - we met some of the big names and it turned out that they are mediocre or even SUCK with women.

A friend of mine met Mystery - he said that Mystery is competent, he has skills, but he's also horribly overrated. He said he knows many guys (mostly naturals) who are better than Mystery.

BTW It's not just the coaches.... There is also a kind of toxic guys who don't get money from this, but they lie and pretend to be good with women to fulfil some retarded emotional needs. They want to somehow feel "respected", be seen as sexually successful or something like that. These guys are actually more insidious, harder to see through than the coaches - because since they're not getting money from it and seemingly have no motive to lie, they seem more suspicious. But they actually have a motive - an emotional one.

There are cases like a guy who was giving seduction advice to others (for free), had 1000+ posts, but later admitted he was a virgin.

I used to think lots of them were 'good' too but over the years and with lots of experience and seeing things in a different light, I think they are basically all trash.

A few are good - but not as good as they pretend to be.

Some are mediocre.

Many are utter trash.

And the funny thing is, even the good ones know most of them are trash, but avoid telling the truth about it, because they don't want to ruin the industry.

There's still people who think mystery or even ross jefferies or Robert Greene or whatever are some sort of 'seduction' God,

Yes. For many people, it's like some kind of RELIGION, where the goal is to uphold the faith and respect/worship the "God", while reality is unimportant and actually "evil" when it contradicts their beliefs.

I've met Tyler Durden from RSD, seen him in action and I was negatively SHOCKED by what I've seen. My impression was that the guy is severely retarded, worse than a total beginner. And when speaking about it, I often encountered ANGER from people who have never met him, but believed he's some kind of seduction guru - and they were furious that I "dare" to speak negatively about their "God". While I simply described what I saw - and if I would have seen something good, I would speak about it also.

The truth is that some of them get results, but it's simply not that impressive.

Yes. The fact that seduction coaches do get laid doesn't mean anything - normal guys also get laid.

And some seduction coaches, or PUAs in general, are good looking - 7/10, etc. And they get successes mostly due to looks, but they say it's due to their game.

They play the same numbers game with the same 'hit rate' as any other random dude.

Of course!

It's like a PUA does 2000 approaches, get's laid with 10 girls - meaning he's got 99.5% FAILURE rate, 0.5% success rate. But he presents it as "skill", while in reality it's number game.

And in such a case, if a PUA enters a relationship with the hottest girl of that 10... She could be really hot and it might look like he's really successful with women, but in reality, she's the best case of out 2000.

Because there IS no ****ing magic 'game' that can force attraction in a girl lol. It's all based on some big lies.
(...)
If they open a girl who clearly isn't receptive, they are powerless. Suddenly their 'attraction material' (negs and dhvs for myster, NLP seduction patterns for jefferies etc) doesn't work.

Yes. It's hard to build attraction/receptiveness with game.

In reality a lot of this is just plays the role of memorised CONTENT - so they have something ready to speak about, there are no awkward silences, etc.

DHV can work, but saying DHV to a woman isn't the same as women believing it - hot women are being told all kinds of nonsense by men trying to get laid with them, and they're used to that.

Real "game" is mostly being able to approach women who find the guy visually acceptable and kind of "making it happen" without stupid mistakes, awkward silences, etc etc. It's actually making it happen SMOOTHLY. Real "game" is largely approaching + rapport building + closing. While attraction-building is problematic if the guy isn't already attractive on at least acceptable level.

I'm not saying game or social skills do'nt matter at all. But it's not what it's marketed as

Yes - game does matter. But not in the way they market it.

All of the coaches are no better than me or you. If they looked identical to me, or if i looked identical to them, i'd get identical results

Here I will slightly disagree.

Some coaches actually do have a good social skills and it does have it's impact.

But yes, generally it's more about looks than about skills.

My favorite by far is ToddV, I love his style because it fits with my skills.

Todd is privately in a relationship, has a child with an UGLY woman.

He has hot women in his videos, but his life partner is UGLY. Do I have to say more, is it obvious what kind of guy he is?

BTW I have her photos, you can DM me if you wish to see for yourself.

Yeah Todd is pretty decent and respectable,

He's in a relationship with an UGLY woman - which he is hiding from potential customers.

obviously without a doubt Mystery Method...
dude was a genius and the only coach to actually explain what creates attraction - microcalibrations in behaviour which signal higher value

Mystery is horribly overrated.

BTW Have you seen the pictures of his girlfriend Katya - who he rates as "9.5" in the book "The Game"? (The author of the book is Style, but he quotes Mystery's post in the book). I rate Katya only 6-7, some people give her 8, but I have so far never met a case of anybody agreeing that she's a 9.5.

I've seen many of his other women and some of them are really hot, but many were just common 7s - the guy's reputation as some kind of elite seducer sleeping with the hottest women is really a huge exagerration.

99% are fraudin and delusional as ****kkk.

Yes.

Majority of These gurus are married to a busted wife or over weight girl. Say date younger but married older. Many bash marriage and are secretly married.

I don't know if it's the majority, but certainly know for example Todd (ex-RSD) has a child with an UGLY woman - which he is hiding from his customers.

I think Julien blanc was a oG in game before banned camp scandal.

I've seen him in action in real life - he was mediocre, not impressive at all.

 

[BaronOfHair]

@CharmingPsychopath ""A friend of mine met Mystery - he said that Mystery is competent"

Even men who approach many women/have researched this subject exhaustively are still ultimately human... Women don't fall out of their clothes and into bed with them by the dozens, each and every day??!!

Next, we'll learn that RL street brawls don't resemble the sh-t we've all enjoyed in popular entertainment(Assailants aren't kind enough to attack the nigh-omnipotent gung fu master one by one. Nunchucks crack their wielder across the bridge of the nose, long before they incapictate an opponent. Willingness/outright fervor for dishing out brutality frequently dictate the outcome of a scrap, NOT that black belt we shelled out 6gs for), and that even folks who've done a great deal of MA training are no less susceptible to being pulverized into the pavement than the rest of us mere mortals are

More seriously:

Sleazy writes in that book: "Most men aren't out to become big pimps. They just want a GF or to get laid". Yeah... When you're ambitions aren't more expansive than acquiring table scraps, the most state of the art of technology in existence will be of less benefit to you than providing free copies of White Fragility is to slum dwellers in Mombassa