She demands a 5th date out to dinner prior to banging

[EyeBRollin]

That's how I feel man. Definitely get a lot of princess vibes from her. Wealthy family, just bought a new handbag "because I deserved it", etc. That's why I feel like I have done plenty for this chick so far with nothing in return.

What exactly have you done for her?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

You are treating her like a slut and she is telling you she doesn't want to be treated like a slut. She wants you to put a little bit of effort into dating her. Are you unwilling to do that? If so it's fine but you will lose a lot of easy lays doing this. You put yourself in this spot.

I did it before a lot to...you are raising issues you don't need to raise by bringing them over to your place for dates prior to them feeling comfortable enough to fvck you.

Going back to your place after a date it cool...straight to yours prior to date 3 usually leads to this type of stuff happening. She thinks you are only interested in her for sex hence her making you wait to see your real intentions. It's chick stuff, but I am pretty sure if you take her out somewhere (doesn't need to be dinner...try a walk and some ice cream if you want) and then go back to your place it will be on.

Ironically, men say they don't want sluts then when a woman wants you to put some effort into her because she may not be one, we complain about that too. Can't have it both ways OP.

 

[TheNewStyle123]

You are treating her like a slut and she is telling you she doesn't want to be treated like a slut. She wants you to put a little bit of effort into dating her. Are you unwilling to do that? If so it's fine but you will lose a lot of easy lays doing this. You put yourself in this spot.

I did it before a lot to...you are raising issues you don't need to raise by bringing them over to your place for dates prior to them feeling comfortable enough to fvck you.

Going back to your place after a date it cool...straight to yours prior to date 3 usually leads to this type of stuff happening. She thinks you are only interested in her for sex hence her making you wait to see your real intentions. It's chick stuff, but I am pretty sure if you take her out somewhere (doesn't need to be dinner...try a walk and some ice cream if you want) and then go back to your place it will be on.

Ironically, men say they don't want sluts then when a woman wants you to put some effort into her because she may not be one, we complain about that too. Can't have it both ways OP.

Do you think at this point agreeing to go out would be counterproductive, or I should make the attempt and try to save face at this point and invite her to dinner this Friday? Or somewhere besides my apartment.

 

[jimwho]

If she wanted any sex you would have been splattered all over the bedroom by now. Stop chasing and her real intentions will soon be very apparent. IMO she's making "ALL" the rules. In my experiences, being at the house, is relax one on one time. Movies, TV, Jacuzzi, music, wine guzzling, good eats, banter, just plain good quality time. Women can be themselves without the public eye. She wants to erase all that and go back to going out to a stupid restaurant.

I love going out to restaurants, it's not only just for her! Take her out, but if she says I don't like that place lets go to this other place then don't forget to wear a dress and put on a little blush. << I kid.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Do you think at this point agreeing to go out would be counterproductive, or I should make the attempt and try to save face at this point and invite her to dinner this Friday? Or somewhere besides my apartment.

It doesn't need to be dinner...go do something fun with her...minigolf and ice cream, walk and ice cream, walk and a drink, etc...

Then invite her back to your place and reap the rewards.

 

[2Rocky]

What's up guys.

My original post about this chick is here for reference:

Do I give her a 4th date?

What's up guys. Tonight I had a third date with this chick I'm seeing. First date we met at a local coffee shop and made out at the end of the date. Second date she came to my place and I cooked dinner and she brought wine. We escalated and were making out on the couch, but after sucking on...

www.sosuave.net

Anyways, to leave off from that post. She came over for the 4th date Monday night. This time, since my strategy of escalating things on my couch had not worked in the past, I decided to act aloof and indifferent. I still made out with her, kissed her neck, etc., but she still seemed a bit guarded and I was not going to attempt to escalate again and have her slow things down.

I called her on her bluff and said "Well, it's getting late, etc., etc." And she seemed surprised that I actually was calling it a night. I walked her out and when she got home she texted me:

HER: "I had a lot of fun tonight as always! I'm just going to say out loud here I think next time I'm going to need to take advantage of you.. "
ME: "Take advantage, huh?"
HER: "Yes, exactly how you read it. But you hit me with the 'it's getting late.'

We cont. to banter a little back and forth and I covertly called her out on the fact that this was our fourth date and she really hadn't shown any signs of 'taking advantage' of me before. I mean seriously, actions speak louder than words and this 22 y.o. girl is not going to lead me into believing she was just going to pounce on me. If she wanted to - there was plenty of opportunity...

I end up inviting her to my place this Friday. We joked about how it would be her turn to cook dinner next time and after my invitation she said "do you want to go out though?"

ME: "Wow. Are you actually trying to get out of making us dinner? I'm surprised."
HER: "We've never gone out!"
ME: "We will sometime. I want to try your cooking. I'll bring the alcohol this time. If you ask nicely I'll even be your sous chef "
HER: "I get very mixed signals from you."
ME: "How's that?"
HER: You just don't want to go out with me, that's fine!!"
ME: "Well that's not true. I believe the first time we met it was in public?" (We went to get coffee date #1)
HER: "Yes that is true but I've suggested to go out and you've kinda avoided the subject."

This is when I got fed up and just stopped responding. I have had plenty of other plates who have been fine coming over, cooking together, hanging out at my place, etc., and never once questioning this. If a girl is truly into me, I feel like she shouldn't care what we are doing.

Is her reluctance that you are not IN PUBLIC with her? It seems to me that is her biggest objection.

I think she thinks you are afraid to be seen with her. Not about you not spending money on her.

So take her to the dance club , play some mini golf, go ride bikes in the park, hike a trail, and then go spend the night together somewhere you like to go for an overnight. Heck you could camp at a state park.. I don't read her request as 5 courses at a white tablecloth restaurant.

 

[Barrister]

OP,

You got this girl's Anti-Slvt defense up to a full 100%. I agree with @EyeBRollin and @BackInTheGame78 that you were too eager to get her into bed and it backfired here. Some women want to be wined and dined prior to bedding. We can debate on here about whether or not that is worth it on a transactional basis, but the bottom line is this is one of those women. Honestly, it sounds like if you went out on a single proper date with her and gave her a little romance she may give you what you want. Obviously not a guarantee and none of us were there to see her body language etc. Whether that is worth it is up to you.

 

[Lookatu]

Is her reluctance that you are not IN PUBLIC with her? It seems to me that is her biggest objection.

I think she thinks you are afraid to be seen with her. Not about you not spending money on her.

I would normally agree with this if the girl was in an older age bracket. Still it could be what she wants, but why did she wait so long to bring it up? Why not suggest it on the 2nd or 3rd date?

Normally girls in that age bracket just wanna hang out regardless in public or private and isn't really thinking about being seen in public from what I observed, unless they wanna have social/activity fun.

OP, if you wanna take one for the team, offer to take her out anywhere, whether it's for dinner or just to get some desert/drinks at a hip place. See if you get laid afterwards. Personally I think it's too late at this point since she's already in control.

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

The guys who have it right are @EyeBRollin @BackInTheGame78 @Barrister and @2Rocky here.

This girl is from a good family. Appearances matter in her social circle & social construct.

She DOES like OP but OP is playing slut game with a girl who was raised with some degree of class. That is why she is withholding. Here is what is going on in her world and mind and friend group...

1. OP refuses to be seen with her in public after a simple coffee date and has pushed for sex too hard too early. She knows you want sex. Duh. You are showing no willingness to take her out (be seen with her in public) which communicates that OP doesn’t want to be seen with her in public which translates to

a. He just wants easy sex with minimal effort

b. He doesn’t respect her

c. He is unwilling to invest in her (lead, have a plan & make an effort)...

Added to all that (which has her Anti Slut Defenses ratcheted up) is her social group...all of whom are talking about you and warning her about a,b, and c as I listed above.

This girl is unusual (and does like you) because she has actually been direct and explained the rules and the social contract to you. OP and others here who are pump & dump notch count guys are giving the wrong advice for this situation.

Here’s what the wise old lady would suggest.

Long game.

1.OP should make an excuse and bow out of the date set for Friday. It’s sideways at this point. Time to regroup and regain frame & perspective. This allows OP to retain masculine frame & self respect without bowing to her demand (communication, Ahem). You do this nicely without being a jerk. This keeps your value high, ejects you from the power struggle that you created, allows each of you to save face and reboot.

Then wait a week or so. Reach out like this...

“Hey Susie. There’s a cool band playing at XYZ place. Would be cool if you wanted to join me for a burger & check it out”

Then you get out with her for a few hours, enjoy yourself & see what happens from there.

And you quit pushing for sex. You are simply there being warm, charming & fun. No pressure. Let her come on to you..

 

[SargeMaximus]

A woman demanding something from me? Next.

 

[SargeMaximus]

More of the uber-macho "Next her a$$" talk.

Life is full of ebbs and flows. You'll miss out on a bunch of beautiful, super fun women by taking such a no nonsense, hardline approach.

I don’t care, honestly. I don’t even consider myself macho. I’m skinny and “a lover not a fighter” but I’m also selfish and lazy. No time for this ****. Plus any time in the past I’ve tried to “play along” I find you lose frame and sex never happens. At least not in a time frame I’m willing to put up with.

I stand by what I said.

 

[TheNewStyle123]

Advice from the old lady:

The guys who have it right are @EyeBRollin @BackInTheGame78 @Barrister and @2Rocky here.

This girl is from a good family. Appearances matter in her social circle & social construct.

She DOES like OP but OP is playing slut game with a girl who was raised with some degree of class. That is why she is withholding. Here is what is going on in her world and mind and friend group...

1. OP refuses to be seen with her in public after a simple coffee date and has pushed for sex too hard too early. She knows you want sex. Duh. You are showing no willingness to take her out (be seen with her in public) which communicates that OP doesn’t want to be seen with her in public which translates to

a. He just wants easy sex with minimal effort

b. He doesn’t respect her

c. He is unwilling to invest in her (lead, have a plan & make an effort)...

Added to all that (which has her Anti Slut Defenses ratcheted up) is her social group...all of whom are talking about you and warning her about a,b, and c as I listed above.

This girl is unusual (and does like you) because she has actually been direct and explained the rules and the social contract to you. OP and others here who are pump & dump notch count guys are giving the wrong advice for this situation.

Here’s what the wise old lady would suggest.

Long game.

1.OP should make an excuse and bow out of the date set for Friday. It’s sideways at this point. Time to regroup and regain frame & perspective. This allows OP to retain masculine frame & self respect without bowing to her demand (communication, Ahem). You do this nicely without being a jerk. This keeps your value high, ejects you from the power struggle that you created, allows each of you to save face and reboot.

Then wait a week or so. Reach out like this...

“Hey Susie. There’s a cool band playing at XYZ place. Would be cool if you wanted to join me for a burger & check it out”

Then you get out with her for a few hours, enjoy yourself & see what happens from there.

And you quit pushing for sex. You are simply there being warm, charming & fun. No pressure. Let her come on to you..

Thank you @BeExcellent after reviewing a lot of the mistakes I made with this one, as well as the advice from @EyeBRollin @BackInTheGame78 @Barrister and @2Rocky I think you guys are right. She does come from a good family and she DID bring up going out in public in the past. I am going to polity cancel Friday and she if she is around Sunday to go mini golfing and get lunch or something like that. We'll see if she even answers me at this point though.. hahaha. Good lesson for next time if not!

 

[EyeBRollin]

Thank you @BeExcellent after reviewing a lot of the mistakes I made with this one, as well as the advice from @EyeBRollin @BackInTheGame78 @Barrister and @2Rocky I think you guys are right. She does come from a good family and she DID bring up going out in public in the past. I am going to polity cancel Friday and she if she is around Sunday to go mini golfing and get lunch or something like that. We'll see if she even answers me at this point though.. hahaha. Good lesson for next time if not!

Good luck!

 

[DonJuanjr]

Edit: irrelevant post.

 

[DonJuanjr]

I wonder if by pulling out of the date, she will read that as a confirmation of just wanting sex/seeing her as a slvt? Which will make her distance herself emotionally from him. I think anything that is done at this point is a 50/50.

 

[DonJuanjr]

What I learned from this situation is, If I can't seduce a female into sex on the first date. Whether it is coffe/drink at bar/ right back at my place, then take her out on the second date trying to get her back to my place for escalation. If I can't seduce again, have her come back to my place for the third date and last attempt at seduction. If I fail, then on to the next, because I failed at seducing the chick, and met the "required social contract" I am now entering beta provider/ orbiter zone and a fourth date is pointless.

 

[DonJuanjr]

I totally understand the "comply or next, no time/money wasting on dates" guys. That works if you're in a populated area. It makes more sense to leave a$$ on the table, when you can just as easily work the volume and bag another for a cheap date that has high enough interest to be satisfied with the cheap coffee date to give up sex. In lower populated areas, a guy might have to put in a couple dates to not leave a$$ on the table. Financially it evens out in the end as cost of living is cheaper in the lower populated areas, even though more money is being put out on dates.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Thank you @BeExcellent after reviewing a lot of the mistakes I made with this one, as well as the advice from @EyeBRollin @BackInTheGame78 @Barrister and @2Rocky I think you guys are right. She does come from a good family and she DID bring up going out in public in the past. I am going to polity cancel Friday and she if she is around Sunday to go mini golfing and get lunch or something like that. We'll see if she even answers me at this point though.. hahaha. Good lesson for next time if not!

I like your approach NewStyle. I had to do the same thing just yesterday to a chick I was on the fence about. Canceling and rescheduling is a good way to try and tilt a little hand in your favor imo.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

What I learned from this situation is, If I can't seduce a female into sex on the first date. Whether it is coffe/drink at bar/ right back at my place, then take her out on the second date trying to get her back to my place for escalation. If I can't seduce again, have her come back to my place for the third date and last attempt at seduction. If I fail, then on to the next, because I failed at seducing the chick, and met the "required social contract" I am now entering beta provider/ orbiter zone and a fourth date is pointless.

3 dates is my limit as well, although I'll extend it to 4 it for a worthy exception. There's a huge difference between the 3-date lay girls and the 5+ date lay girls. The latter is a no-go for me. If she seems super-structured and won't respond/pumps the brakes to any kind of sexual flirting, I assume she's a 5+ and won't even meet with her.

 

[bat soup]

What's up guys.

My original post about this chick is here for reference:

Do I give her a 4th date?

What's up guys. Tonight I had a third date with this chick I'm seeing. First date we met at a local coffee shop and made out at the end of the date. Second date she came to my place and I cooked dinner and she brought wine. We escalated and were making out on the couch, but after sucking on...

www.sosuave.net

Anyways, to leave off from that post. She came over for the 4th date Monday night. This time, since my strategy of escalating things on my couch had not worked in the past, I decided to act aloof and indifferent. I still made out with her, kissed her neck, etc., but she still seemed a bit guarded and I was not going to attempt to escalate again and have her slow things down.

I called her on her bluff and said "Well, it's getting late, etc., etc." And she seemed surprised that I actually was calling it a night. I walked her out and when she got home she texted me:

HER: "I had a lot of fun tonight as always! I'm just going to say out loud here I think next time I'm going to need to take advantage of you.. "
ME: "Take advantage, huh?"
HER: "Yes, exactly how you read it. But you hit me with the 'it's getting late.'

We cont. to banter a little back and forth and I covertly called her out on the fact that this was our fourth date and she really hadn't shown any signs of 'taking advantage' of me before. I mean seriously, actions speak louder than words and this 22 y.o. girl is not going to lead me into believing she was just going to pounce on me. If she wanted to - there was plenty of opportunity...

I end up inviting her to my place this Friday. We joked about how it would be her turn to cook dinner next time and after my invitation she said "do you want to go out though?"

ME: "Wow. Are you actually trying to get out of making us dinner? I'm surprised."
HER: "We've never gone out!"
ME: "We will sometime. I want to try your cooking. I'll bring the alcohol this time. If you ask nicely I'll even be your sous chef "
HER: "I get very mixed signals from you."
ME: "How's that?"
HER: You just don't want to go out with me, that's fine!!"
ME: "Well that's not true. I believe the first time we met it was in public?" (We went to get coffee date #1)
HER: "Yes that is true but I've suggested to go out and you've kinda avoided the subject."

This is when I got fed up and just stopped responding. I have had plenty of other plates who have been fine coming over, cooking together, hanging out at my place, etc., and never once questioning this. If a girl is truly into me, I feel like she shouldn't care what we are doing.

My interpretation: she is a 22 y.o. that may be a little full of herself and is getting fed info from her 21 y.o. sister who has a beta BF, or her other gal pals. Her and her sister are really close and I could see her sister and/or friends telling her "I wouldn't fuuck him unless he takes you out or buys you dinner." To me, if she doesn't appreciate the fact that I have cooked for her 3 times now (one of the times we cooked together), then she's getting nexted. We still have yet to fuuck, nor have I gotten head.

What do you think guys? Am I being a little too stubborn? Should I just take this girl to dinner as it will potentially end in sex? At this point, for me, I feel like I would totally lose frame if I gave into her demand for me to take her out to dinner, and I could go through all of that and still not get laid.

She's playing games with you. She knows that you want to bang, so she's using that as bait to get what she wants.