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She demands a 5th date out to dinner prior to banging

TheNewStyle123

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What's up guys.

My original post about this chick is here for reference:



Anyways, to leave off from that post. She came over for the 4th date Monday night. This time, since my strategy of escalating things on my couch had not worked in the past, I decided to act aloof and indifferent. I still made out with her, kissed her neck, etc., but she still seemed a bit guarded and I was not going to attempt to escalate again and have her slow things down.

I called her on her bluff and said "Well, it's getting late, etc., etc." And she seemed surprised that I actually was calling it a night. I walked her out and when she got home she texted me:

HER: "I had a lot of fun tonight as always! I'm just going to say out loud here I think next time I'm going to need to take advantage of you.. ;)"
ME: "Take advantage, huh?"
HER: "Yes, exactly how you read it. But you hit me with the 'it's getting late.'

We cont. to banter a little back and forth and I covertly called her out on the fact that this was our fourth date and she really hadn't shown any signs of 'taking advantage' of me before. I mean seriously, actions speak louder than words and this 22 y.o. girl is not going to lead me into believing she was just going to pounce on me. If she wanted to - there was plenty of opportunity...

I end up inviting her to my place this Friday. We joked about how it would be her turn to cook dinner next time and after my invitation she said "do you want to go out though?"

ME: "Wow. Are you actually trying to get out of making us dinner? I'm surprised."
HER: "We've never gone out!"
ME: "We will sometime. I want to try your cooking. I'll bring the alcohol this time. If you ask nicely I'll even be your sous chef ;)"
HER: "I get very mixed signals from you."
ME: "How's that?"
HER: You just don't want to go out with me, that's fine!!"
ME: "Well that's not true. I believe the first time we met it was in public?" (We went to get coffee date #1)
HER: "Yes that is true but I've suggested to go out and you've kinda avoided the subject."

This is when I got fed up and just stopped responding. I have had plenty of other plates who have been fine coming over, cooking together, hanging out at my place, etc., and never once questioning this. If a girl is truly into me, I feel like she shouldn't care what we are doing.

My interpretation: she is a 22 y.o. that may be a little full of herself and is getting fed info from her 21 y.o. sister who has a beta BF, or her other gal pals. Her and her sister are really close and I could see her sister and/or friends telling her "I wouldn't fuuck him unless he takes you out or buys you dinner." To me, if she doesn't appreciate the fact that I have cooked for her 3 times now (one of the times we cooked together), then she's getting nexted. We still have yet to fuuck, nor have I gotten head.

What do you think guys? Am I being a little too stubborn? Should I just take this girl to dinner as it will potentially end in sex? At this point, for me, I feel like I would totally lose frame if I gave into her demand for me to take her out to dinner, and I could go through all of that and still not get laid.
 

Hank Moody

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ME: "Wow. Are you actually trying to get out of making us dinner? I'm surprised."
HER: "We've never gone out!"
ME: "We will sometime. I want to try your cooking. I'll bring the alcohol this time. If you ask nicely I'll even be your sous chef ;)"
HER: "I get very mixed signals from you."
ME: "How's that?"
HER: You just don't want to go out with me, that's fine!!"
ME: "Well that's not true. I believe the first time we met it was in public?" (We went to get coffee date #1)
HER: "Yes that is true but I've suggested to go out and you've kinda avoided the subject."
Your response to what I have bolded and underlined is where this went south.

Your response should have been, "Deal with it, babe. ;-)

By asking her 'how's that?', you invited the logical part of her brain to completely take over the rest of the conversation. That's never good.
 

EyeBRollin

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Yes, you are being stubborn. I would have banged this girl already. I don’t know why you guys think you are too special to take women out. This girl is telling you straight from her own mouth.

Though I think your date sequencing is out of whack. This girl is playing ball but you still haven’t taken her out on a real date yet. Unfortunately since you failed to smash twice now, doing so may look like you are rewarding that behavior.

Men, the efficient sequence is:

Date 1: coffee, drinks, walk, etc
Date 2: dinner (don’t overspend)
Date 3: your place
 

EyeBRollin

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At this point, for me, I feel like I would totally lose frame if I gave into her demand for me to take her out to dinner, and I could go through all of that and still not get laid.
“Women don’t lie, men don’t listen.”

This has nothing to do with frame. This entire approach is out of sequence. This girl actually likes you enough to tolerate it so far and then tells you exactly what you are doing wrong. That is high interest, my friend.

Read Doc Love’s The System. “Frame” gets thrown around a lot on this forum but guys don’t actually know what it means or how to use it.
 

Sir FB

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What if you could find a way to take her to dinner AND maintain frame?
 

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TheNewStyle123

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“Women don’t lie, men don’t listen.”

This has nothing to do with frame. This entire approach is out of sequence. This girl actually likes you enough to tolerate it so far and then tells you exactly what you are doing wrong. That is high interest, my friend.

Read Doc Love’s The System. “Frame” gets thrown around a lot on this forum but guys don’t actually know what it means or how to use it.
Think I should respond to her text from last night today and invite her to dinner Friday then? Just bring up a place that I really like that is local?
 

Pan87

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5 dates? jeeeeeeeezuz.

"Demands dinner prior to banging" - if a girl is setting the frame this hardcore then sex won't happen, and even if it did it would be sh!tty sex where she wouldn't be turned on. Women only make rules to see if you can smash the rules i.e. A sh!t test.

If you're following her rules then it is anti-vag-tingles. Women just aren't wired to lead a man and get turned on by it. They are wired to test your ability to lead by making fake rules and seeing if you can Game your way around it. It's like a fitness test.
 

ThisIsSparta

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HER: "I had a lot of fun tonight as always! I'm just going to say out loud here I think next time I'm going to need to take advantage of you.. ;)"
What YOU think when she says " im going to need to take advantage of you": great she will finaly fvck me
What SHE thinks when she says " im going to need to take advantage of you": great he will invite me to a fancy place for dinner

Dude, this shiat isnt going anywhere. She is not going to fvck you on date 5. She will suffer through a little making out in your car after dinner and then call it a night again.

This chick is wasting your time and is leading you by the nose-ring.

My patience with her behavior would have worn out after date 3.

Desire is not negotiable and a woman that pushes me away on date 3 has to walk.
 

Pan87

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What YOU think when she says " im going to need to take advantage of you": great she will finaly fvck me
What SHE thinks " im going to need to take advantage of you": great he will invite me to a fancy place for dinner

Dude, this shiat isnt going anywhere. She is not going to fvck you on date 5. She will suffer through a little making out in your car after dinner and then call it a day again.

This chick is wasting your time and is leading you by the nose-ring.

My patience with her behavior would have worn out after date 3.

Desire is not negotioable and a woman that pushes me away on date 3 has to walk.
Well said.

Time to "shoot the puppy" as Torero would say.

Ejecting from a woman who is wasting your time is about the noblest thing a Man can do in this God Forsaken modern world.
 

TheNewStyle123

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Well said.

Time to "shoot the puppy" as Torero would say.

Ejecting from a woman who is wasting your time is about the noblest thing a Man can do in this God Forsaken modern world.
That's kind of how I see it right now too. I get what @EyeBRollin is saying though about her telling me exactly what I'm doing wrong and not being too special to take a woman out. But I am conflicted. I also have a strong urge to think sex will still not happen even if I invite her out to dinner this Friday.

Not sure how to play this..
 

EyeBRollin

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That's kind of how I see it right now too. I get what @EyeBRollin is saying though about her telling me exactly what I'm doing wrong and not being too special to take a woman out. But I am conflicted. I also have a strong urge to think sex will still not happen even if I invite her out to dinner this Friday.

Not sure how to play this..
See the problem is you have no way of differentiating if she is a time waster or not due to your own mistakes. The signs point to this girl liking you a lot. She was willing to cook with you multiple times despite zero investment on your end.
 

Pan87

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That's kind of how I see it right now too. I get what @EyeBRollin is saying though about her telling me exactly what I'm doing wrong and not being too special to take a woman out. But I am conflicted. I also have a strong urge to think sex will still not happen even if I invite her out to dinner this Friday.

Not sure how to play this..
EyeBRollin is a good dude, but he plays Provider Game and it just doesn't work in 2021. It definitely worked in the 1950's.

Spending money on chicks before they bang you just doesn't turn them on. We need to break that conditioning as men. We have been conditioned to simp and spend upfront money on chicks in the hopes that if we spend enough money she'll eventually bang us. I've said this before, but women despise these covert contracts. If you want to pay for chicks then it makes far more sense to just hire escorts.
 

Pan87

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See the problem is you have no way of differentiating if she is a time waster or not due to your own mistakes. The signs point to this girl liking you a lot. She was willing to cook with you multiple times despite zero investment on your end.
You're forgetting that chicks love orbiters - women are like leeches in that they'll suck up all your time if you let them, and give you absolutely nothing back for it. In fact, she'll just start to see you as one of her girlfriends.

I can't think of a single time where I've taken a girl out for dinner pre-bang and the bang was easy. I can think of plenty of times I have taken girls out for meals pre-bang and they have said "tehehe thanks for the nice night" and then I never heard from them again.
 

EyeBRollin

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EyeBRollin is a good dude, but he plays Provider Game and it just doesn't work in 2021. It definitely worked in the 1950's.

Spending money on chicks before they bang you just doesn't turn them on. We need to break that conditioning as men. We have been conditioned to simp and spend upfront money on chicks in the hopes that if we spend enough money she'll eventually bang us. I've said this before, but women despise these covert contracts. If you want to pay for chicks then it makes far more sense to just hire escorts.
Interest level isn’t the problem here. That’s what you PUAs aren’t reading. A low interest woman would have dropped his ass weeks ago.
 

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Pan87

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Interest level isn’t the problem here. That’s what you PUAs aren’t reading. A low interest woman would have dropped his ass weeks ago.
If she was interested then sex would have happened. "The medium is the message" - Rollo Tomassi's most valuable contribution to PUA. Women looooove banging guys they are attracted to.

If a girl is spending time with you, and you're not banging, then she has other plans for you. She is conditioning you for Orbiter or Beta Provider status. This means you get a handjob once a year on your birthday, and she's scowling at you while she's doing it.
 

ThisIsSparta

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That's kind of how I see it right now too. I get what @EyeBRollin is saying though about her telling me exactly what I'm doing wrong and not being too special to take a woman out. But I am conflicted. I also have a strong urge to think sex will still not happen even if I invite her out to dinner this Friday.

Not sure how to play this..
Shes a little girl that you dated a few times. Its not her place to tell you what to do.
If she decides to break this "sequence" by passing the 2nd date (the "going out-date"), its on her.

If this girly isnt into you enough to fvck, after she has been at your place for 3 times, but still keeps you in the loop, she is either using you as a simp or is trying to force her frame on you. Both things are not acceptable.

At this point you CANT accept taking her out for date 5 or she will have the drop on you.
You set the frame and you have to pull it through, whatever happens.
 

TheNewStyle123

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Shes a little girl that you dated a few times. Its not her place to tell you what to do.
If she decides to break this "sequence" by passing the 2nd date (the "going out-date"), its on her.

If this girly isnt into you enough to fvck, after she has been at your place for 3 times, but still keeps you in the loop, she is either using you as a simp or is trying to force her frame on you. Both things are not acceptable.

At this point you CANT accept taking her out for date 5 or she will have the drop on you.
You set the frame and you have to pull it through, whatever happens.
Exactly how I see it man! I have already suggested that she make us dinner at my place this time. If she does not accept, oh well. I feel like at this time going back on my word and taking her out because she wants me to would just be a beta move and I would entirely lose frame.

My plan atm is still not to respond to her last text and set up another date with someone else on Friday in the meantime. If she decides to text me I'll see what happens.
 

Pan87

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Exactly how I see it man! I have already suggested that she make us dinner at my place this time. If she does not accept, oh well. I feel like at this time going back on my word and taking her out because she wants me to would just be a beta move and I would entirely lose frame.

My plan atm is still not to respond to her last text and set up another date with someone else on Friday in the meantime. If she decides to text me I'll see what happens.
If she comes to your place for dinner again then this time you have to bang her before you start cooking. Glass of wine, chat, escalate, bang her - take no longer than 1-2 hours to do this. If she pulls some sh!t then tell her you don't feel like cooking anymore and politely kick her out.
 

Hank Moody

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If she comes to your place for dinner again then this time you have to bang her before you start cooking. Glass of wine, chat, escalate, bang her - take no longer than 1-2 hours to do this. If she pulls some sh!t then tell her you don't feel like cooking anymore and politely kick her out.
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