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article: Many young men are shunning sex. Is it because feminism and #MeToo are constant reminders of the inferiority of male identity?

sangheilios

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The Baby Boomers had excess because of a unique set of circumstances unlikely to be replicated in the present or future. After World War II, Europe and Japan were decimated. It would take both of those areas until 1965-1970 to be competitive economically on a global scale. Japan had a great 1970s and 1980s. The Nikkei crashed in 1989 and Japan has never truly recovered from that. With the U.S. being the dominant global economic force in the 1945-1970 era, the Baby Boomers were raised in prosperity and graduated into good economies when they decided to end their educations, whether it was high school, college, or beyond. Even the Boomers that whine about graduating into recessionary 1970s economies had a walk in the park compared to the Millennials who graduated in the late 2000s/early 2010s and the COVID 2020-2021 graduates.

It was a great time. Because Boomers weren't competing globally in the early parts of their careers, they had an advantage. They eventually squandered it. The Boomers basically rode the coattails of the GI Generation (1910-1925), who were one of the most accomplished generations, and didn't build upon the successes of the GI Generation. All the subsequent post Boomer generations have struggled to varying extents. X'ers routinely complain about being neglected and overlooked. This is partially due to being latchkey kids. Millennials have been decimated by an increasing need to go to college (the good middle class income jobs in factories were long gone by the time Millennials started turning 18 in the 2000-2005 time frame). The cost of college skyrocketed between 1980-present. Also, since more people were getting BA/BS degrees or more after 1980, the value of each individual BA/BS degree or MA/MS/MBA degree diminished. Millennials have had to pay more for degrees that haven't made them as marketable. Additionally, the Millennials have taken the brunt of the 2 worst recessions since WWII, the Great Recession of the late 2000s/early 2010s and COVID in 2020.

The Millennials were the first large generation to see their parents divorce to a large extent. I think you're right that a lot of Millennials grew up with messed up family dynamics. Some of the smarter Millennials don't want to repeat that. Even if they did want marriage, babies, and homes in the suburbs, they've been so crushed by student debt and recessions that they can't financially pull it off. Many of the older Millennials of the early 1980s that did get married went through their first divorce in the late 2010s, or will be part of the many post COVID divorces in the early 2020s.

You're correct that people who do spend their 18-29 years in numerous sexual relationships won't be good marriage material by 30. This is called carousel riding for women. Tinder, Hinge, and Bumble in any metro area of a sizable population will be full of women 27-39 years old who were/are carousel riders. It's not all on the women. Some men have blame in this. The top tier of men (roughly around the top 10% of men) who are getting most of the sex have no incentive to commit. The middle of the bell curve men are now getting lower quality women with higher BMIs and notch counts. Two causes of this are female hypergamy and male surpluses. These women won't make long term partners worthy of a enforceable legal contract. The better looking ones might be worth a 2-5 year relationship without a marital contract.
Exactly

I have this conversation a lot with others about how the baby boomers enjoyed a period of economic success that even today's young adult simply hasn't experienced. Like I said, as long as you went to college or got into some sort of trade and put an effort in just to show up you most likely lived a very comfortable life and didn't have much to worry about. You also didn't have to go massively into debt just to get a degree or training and buying a house was realistic within a reasonable time frame.

I remember when I was in high school in the metro northeast you were considered "dumb" if you didn't go to college. People that went to college right out of high school often did so because it was the thing you did and you possibly did this with no real direction. I know the parents of many of these people did in fact help out with their college expenses but I know of several people who went on their own dime and it put them so far into debt that they will never pay it off in their lifetime. As you mentioned, college costs have skyrocketed over the past couple decades, I actually read an article about this and I guess over the past 30 years or so the average cost for college has increased by 3 times that of the inflation rate in that same time period. Even if you go to a state school, that is still going to cost you at least 40k in just tuition and fees, you go to any private school and you are committing financial suicide. I know one school in the Boston area, Northeastern, cost around 70k per year with tuition and fees as well as room and board. To top it off they have a 5 year program for graduation, so total cost of almost 400k!!!

You live in some city like Boston, NY, LA or wherever and just to rent a one bedroom is around $1500 per month and you are making maybe 60k per year if you are lucky out of college. There is no way you are ever going to get ahead of this, especially since chances are you won't be making over 100k per year from a regular career.

To tie all of this into this thread, you basically are going to have a group of young men who in reality are educated and work hard but due to the set of circumstances they are in they feel hopeless, so they resort into escapism things like video games or worse drugs and alcohol. Combine this with the fact that even landwhales are picky on tinder I'm actually amazed that we don't have a suicide crisis.
 

SW15

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Having been around for awhile, I think the biggest contributing factors has been the internet and feminism, which led to mindset change in some females coupled with male pvssy enslavement and thirst. Which then spiralled to boring sex lives with each other(long term marriages) and divorce/single motherhood. Guys raised by single and often young mothers didn't really have the guidance or male mentor in their lives, further adding to the problems we face today. Gradually over time, female empowerment and those pro-females that pushed their agenda hard, led to certain females that should've never been in power of any kind(mental illness, jaded, hate for males, etc) to socially condition young males and weak older males to fit their agenda's and narratives. Couple that with the whole Social Media and Smartphones which made female pvssy more valuable than gold for some people.
You got it right with internet and feminism. Simping increased dramatically with technology. With social media and smartphones, women could get as much attention as they desired. Women have always craved attention. Social media and smartphones deliver an attention high for women on par with a cocaine high from the finest Colombian cocaine.

Ratios have gotten worse over time due to a number of factors. Technology does lower the cost of simping. It's easier to swipe right, slide into DMs, etc. than approach a woman in person. The ease of perceived access to women via technology, a lack of a masculine presence for men in their formative years, and bad ratios fuel the male thirst/beta simping pandemic. That pandemic is actually more prevalent globally than COVID.

In another post, I'm going to break down your tech examples. They were good.

I vividly remember in the late 90's when a coworker and I were having a conversation about buying a TV and he said he's not sure if he can get it and would have to ask the wife. I found that VERY weird but it was only the start of things to come from that point onward.
This is one of those things that has good intentions. It theoretical seems good. In real life, it is not good. The theory is that couples should collaboratively discuss larger purchases with tied together finances.

In reality, the men become enslaved, henpecked, and often seeking female approval.

In the late 1990s, a good TV set maybe cost $700-$1,000 then, which might be more like $1,100-$1,400 today. TV set technology has changed a lot. Now, a good TV set runs $300-$600.
 

mrgoodstuff

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You got it right with internet and feminism. Simping increased dramatically with technology. With social media and smartphones, women could get as much attention as they desired. Women have always craved attention. Social media and smartphones deliver an attention high for women on par with a cocaine high from the finest Colombian cocaine.

Ratios have gotten worse over time due to a number of factors. Technology does lower the cost of simping. It's easier to swipe right, slide into DMs, etc. than approach a woman in person. The ease of perceived access to women via technology, a lack of a masculine presence for men in their formative years, and bad ratios fuel the male thirst/beta simping pandemic. That pandemic is actually more prevalent globally than COVID.

In another post, I'm going to break down your tech examples. They were good.



This is one of those things that has good intentions. It theoretical seems good. In real life, it is not good. The theory is that couples should collaboratively discuss larger purchases with tied together finances.

In reality, the men become enslaved, henpecked, and often seeking female approval.

In the late 1990s, a good TV set maybe cost $700-$1,000 then, which might be more like $1,100-$1,400 today. TV set technology has changed a lot. Now, a good TV set runs $300-$600.
All true. What can be done about it all in the "new" environment? ( New World Order?, this is what some say), what can a man do?

Is plating the "only" way to keep self diginity and sexual options? Can the other relationship angles work at all?
 

Lookatu

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This is one of those things that has good intentions. It theoretical seems good. In real life, it is not good. The theory is that couples should collaboratively discuss larger purchases with tied together finances.
This is what I've been advocating for years now to all the male population I run into regarding this. As long as you're making your own money and paying/contributing to all the necessities and all the basics are all being met(food, rent/mortgage, utility, clothes, kids, etc), you should be able to spend the rest in whatever way you damn well please. Obviously the really big purchases like a car and such do require some level of agreement or salesmanship to your significant other.

If you do share finances and both are contributing, I always recommend one joint account for necessities and basics and a separate account for each person. Problem solved.
 

Lynx nkaf

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LTR and Marriage? I just can't believe rotations and lack of true connection is the only way.
well.
Hoping you'd write that mister.
I remember you brought up learning kama sutra and sensual massage techniques in that recent marriage thread.

My idea comes from a short story named 'who am I this time?' in the book by Kurt Vonnegut called "Welcome to the Monkey House"

Basically this couple becomes insanely attracted to each other auditioning for community theatre.
In play after play after play, their respective roles deepen their passion and admiration for each other and when they get married outside of the productions they simply continue the roleplaying.
There you've got your variety and spice and if they get right into it, wigs and new looks.

The two naturally quiet, introverted people were able to express without reserve, all the different facets of their personalities and keep them excited and having Fun with each other.

Fictional short story but hey there's an idea I often think about.

That whole book of stories by Vonnegut is da bomb.
 

mrgoodstuff

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well.
Hoping you'd write that mister.
I remember you brought up learning kama sutra and sensual massage techniques in that recent marriage thread.

My idea comes from a short story named 'who am I this time?' in the book by Kurt Vonnegut called "Welcome to the Monkey House"

Basically this couple becomes insanely attracted to each other auditioning for community theatre.
In play after play after play, their respective roles deepen their passion and admiration for each other and when they get married outside of the productions they simply continue the roleplaying.
There you've got your variety and spice and if they get right into it, wigs and new looks.

The two naturally quiet, introverted people were able to express without reserve, all the different facets of their personalities and keep them excited and having Fun with each other.

Fictional short story but hey there's an idea I often think about.

That whole book of stories by Vonnegut is da bomb.
That is HAWT. Good passion and love make love more intense than drugs, this is why they want it forgotten about and banned.
 

Zontyy

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If you do share finances and both are contributing, I always recommend one joint account for necessities and basics and a separate account for each person. Problem solved.
When I was engaged at one point this how we did it. We had a shared account all our money went into then we each had a separate account that was $200 a week for whatever clothes or gifts for the other, date night. I always found she blow her money on clothes and try and get me to take her out on dates :rolleyes: with my half. I always picked what I wanted to do, then she called me controlling always choosing what we do. I told her to stop buying clothes every week.
 

SW15

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Just to expand on the internet thing...
If we didn't have the internet:
- Guys wouldn't be able to look at unlimited porn and thus substituting and satisfying their sexual thirst and in return meeting and approaching less and less women.

- People would be actually talking and meeting more in real life
If swipes are counted as approaches, men are doing more approaches now than ever. Men are having to prospect harder than ever. Even harder than in the website era when many men were doing copy/paste messages on the dating swipes.

I don't know if there are fewer in-person approaches now than in the past times. Day game is more mainstream than it was 25 years ago.

Porn and fap is a dopamine high meant to satiate thirst. It could also be enhancing thirst.

- Women wouldn't be reading all this garbage and getting bad advice from other crazy b1tches on how to live their life.
- Women wouldn't be artifically pedestalized by having unlimited likes/attention/messages from said thirsty guys, further giving them a bigger ego and entitlement mentality.
Not sure I fully buy the premise about women reading garbage. Cosmopolitan Magazine did well for decades in the pre-internet era. For sure, the artificial pedestalization is occurring.

- Looks would be a more realistic standard than it is today.
I think women have more unrealistic expectations about bodies than men. Men tend to rate more women as attractive than women rate men as attractive.

- Feminism would be kept more in check and in line with what originally Feminism was set out to do and not all these other motives perpetuated by the internet.
Feminism radicalized between Betty Friedan and Gloria Steinem. Second wave feminism in the 1970s and 1980s was more radical than Friedan era first wave feminism in the late 1950s/early 1960s.

Feminism has always been out to destroy men and the perceived infractions of the patriarchy.

- The older generation didn't have "options" like we do on the internet now so if they got in a fight, they HAD to try to understand each other and work it out. Now adays if couples get in a fight, it's often more easy just to go on dating apps to find someone that will agree with you instead of trying to work it out with your partner. Its turned into viscious cycle where gals are fine until things arent' fine, then either gals or guys look elsewhere instead of making an effort to work it out.

- Less divorce as you wouldn't be looking at porn, looking for other options, fighting over financials to keep up with the Joneses(lavish things seen on the internet of what others have)
Agree
 

SW15

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All true. What can be done about it all in the "new" environment? ( New World Order?, this is what some say), what can a man do?

Is plating the "only" way to keep self diginity and sexual options? Can the other relationship angles work at all?
I think most men would be better served avoiding sourcing dates on apps (and websites for those that still haven't transitioned to apps, mainly the 50+ group). Even if a woman is using swipe apps, if she meets someone in real life, that interaction is framed around the real life interaction. That's better. She'll still perceive massive choice if she has the apps but there will be more differentiation if an interaction begins in real life, especially if it begins in real life from a non-bar venue and/or female populated social environment.

Plating is one valid option in this environment. I think a serial monogamy type model can work in this environment as well. Have extended relationships, but don't get married and don't impregnate.
 

Lookatu

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Not sure I fully buy the premise about women reading garbage. Cosmopolitan Magazine did well for decades in the pre-internet era.

I think women have more unrealistic expectations about bodies than men. Men tend to rate more women as attractive than women rate men as attractive.

Feminism radicalized between Betty Friedan and Gloria Steinem. Second wave feminism in the 1970s and 1980s was more radical than Friedan era first wave feminism in the late 1950s/early 1960s.

Feminism has always been out to destroy men and the perceived infractions of the patriarchy.
Part of what I meant by reading garbage is that it is natural for women not be be able to make their own decisions based on the facts and situations they are in. They always have to rely on others to help them. The Internet just made it easier to get either good or bad advice from their peers but either way, it still made them ever more dependent on the opinions and advice of others.
To me Cosmo was the start of garbage magazine that started this whole entitlement, fake empowerment, pedestalization, using guys trend. There used to be many other quality woman's magazines that came before that, that actually added some value to becoming a woman and that didn't always concentrate on guy, fashion tips, etc.

I believe feminism started out with good intentions but morphed into something entirely different than even the original pioneering women intended it being.

If you haven't seen Handsmaid Tale on Hulu, it's about oppression of women. I was really surprised the original story was written by a woman and her interviews on it were interesting as well.
 

MatureDJ

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I think there is encoded in the human male instinct a kill-switch that when the females are low quality, it's time to got MGTOW so as to pollute the rest of the genetic stock.
Let's try this again:

I think there is encoded in the human male instinct a kill-switch that when the females are low quality, it's time to go MGTOW so as to NOT pollute the rest of the genetic stock.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

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Since you and I are both Millennials, we likely had grandfathers born in the 1920s or maybe early 1930s. My maternal grandfather was a great man. He fought in World War II and had an attractive feminine wife with a 0 notch count when they married. My grandma was proud of her pre-marriage 0 notch count. They married soon after he returned from World War II. It lasted 55+ years.

That doesn't happen today. I miss my grandparents. I thought about my grandfather a lot this weekend with it being Father's Day.

I'm the only grandchild of those previously mentioned grandparents to not get a divorce. That's because I assessed the sexual marketplace, the broader culture and my own personality. I realized it wasn't going to work. I didn't want to go through a divorce. My parents went through one and it was not good. I want to have sex. I think pair bonding is good. An extended relationship has value. I'm not going to get the state involved in it. I'm going to extract the value I can from the relationship and exit when it is no longer good. I'm not sticking around for a decline in sexual frequency.

Why would I want to have kids when I likely won't stay with the baby mama until the kids are 18? That's not just me. Probability dictates that any two people having kids in the West aren't likely to be together until all their kids reach 18. I don't want to put a child through what I went through.
What is the alternative? Mgtow? Incel?

I've approached thousands in my life. I stopped counting pulling at 18. The majority of men here and in general don't approach or pull. The majority rely on OLD or social circle. None of the following is a ideal metric for the SMP. The apps are a resources but mostly low hanging fruit.

The difference is night and day. While i learned game, i got nothing on the greatest generation. Still, women were hypergamy but the culture didn't promote it. Its now open season and dudes still marry sloot gonna sloot. I have seen some stuff. I understand that abundance of nihilism in men today.

Whats the point? In terms of the purpose of it all. Meaningless existence and rudderless is most men. Most women are damaged goods, liberal, cannot cook or clean. The fellas who pull women abroad revert to the Western culture the sec they have a green card. This is a zero sum game.

I approach, i pull or next. Repeat. I have been contemplating with the present and my plans for the future. I have no idea why anybody else is going to play house.

I asked a monk about it. He calls it a loan. Its a rental. It has a timeline and its short lived. It would seem to be the current lifestyle factors and stressor don't lead to the end game our grandfather lived. The culture is degenerate and shameless.

No condom is no longer a worthy risk.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

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The Baby Boomers had excess because of a unique set of circumstances unlikely to be replicated in the present or future. After World War II, Europe and Japan were decimated. It would take both of those areas until 1965-1970 to be competitive economically on a global scale. Japan had a great 1970s and 1980s. The Nikkei crashed in 1989 and Japan has never truly recovered from that. With the U.S. being the dominant global economic force in the 1945-1970 era, the Baby Boomers were raised in prosperity and graduated into good economies when they decided to end their educations, whether it was high school, college, or beyond. Even the Boomers that whine about graduating into recessionary 1970s economies had a walk in the park compared to the Millennials who graduated in the late 2000s/early 2010s and the COVID 2020-2021 graduates.

It was a great time. Because Boomers weren't competing globally in the early parts of their careers, they had an advantage. They eventually squandered it. The Boomers basically rode the coattails of the GI Generation (1910-1925), who were one of the most accomplished generations, and didn't build upon the successes of the GI Generation. All the subsequent post Boomer generations have struggled to varying extents. X'ers routinely complain about being neglected and overlooked. This is partially due to being latchkey kids. Millennials have been decimated by an increasing need to go to college (the good middle class income jobs in factories were long gone by the time Millennials started turning 18 in the 2000-2005 time frame). The cost of college skyrocketed between 1980-present. Also, since more people were getting BA/BS degrees or more after 1980, the value of each individual BA/BS degree or MA/MS/MBA degree diminished. Millennials have had to pay more for degrees that haven't made them as marketable. Additionally, the Millennials have taken the brunt of the 2 worst recessions since WWII, the Great Recession of the late 2000s/early 2010s and COVID in 2020.

The Millennials were the first large generation to see their parents divorce to a large extent. I think you're right that a lot of Millennials grew up with messed up family dynamics. Some of the smarter Millennials don't want to repeat that. Even if they did want marriage, babies, and homes in the suburbs, they've been so crushed by student debt and recessions that they can't financially pull it off. Many of the older Millennials of the early 1980s that did get married went through their first divorce in the late 2010s, or will be part of the many post COVID divorces in the early 2020s.

You're correct that people who do spend their 18-29 years in numerous sexual relationships won't be good marriage material by 30. This is called carousel riding for women. Tinder, Hinge, and Bumble in any metro area of a sizable population will be full of women 27-39 years old who were/are carousel riders. It's not all on the women. Some men have blame in this. The top tier of men (roughly around the top 10% of men) who are getting most of the sex have no incentive to commit. The middle of the bell curve men are now getting lower quality women with higher BMIs and notch counts. Two causes of this are female hypergamy and male surpluses. These women won't make long term partners worthy of a enforceable legal contract. The better looking ones might be worth a 2-5 year relationship without a marital contract.
Its why i recommend young lads get paper right, get a edu in stem or a trade or start a business. Acquire competence in game. Don't play house ever or at least be 35 or older. I saw AMS on about being 40 and slowing down. Contemplating mortality.

Pending the city, the lawa, and all, common law equates to cucked. The sec kids are, its a crap shoot, and women pull the pin on the divorce or fat grenade. Usually both.
 

SW15

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What is the alternative? Mgtow? Incel?

I've approached thousands in my life. I stopped counting pulling at 18. The majority of men here and in general don't approach or pull. The majority rely on OLD or social circle. None of the following is a ideal metric for the SMP. The apps are a resources but mostly low hanging fruit.

The difference is night and day. While i learned game, i got nothing on the greatest generation. Still, women were hypergamy but the culture didn't promote it. Its now open season and dudes still marry sloot gonna sloot. I have seen some stuff. I understand that abundance of nihilism in men today.

Whats the point? In terms of the purpose of it all. Meaningless existence and rudderless is most men. Most women are damaged goods, liberal, cannot cook or clean. The fellas who pull women abroad revert to the Western culture the sec they have a green card. This is a zero sum game.

I approach, i pull or next. Repeat. I have been contemplating with the present and my plans for the future. I have no idea why anybody else is going to play house.

I asked a monk about it. He calls it a loan. Its a rental. It has a timeline and its short lived. It would seem to be the current lifestyle factors and stressor don't lead to the end game our grandfather lived. The culture is degenerate and shameless.

No condom is no longer a worthy risk.
The most viable paths I perceive are....

1. Serial monogamy with no marriage and no impregnation. A series of 2-5 year relationships until at least one's 60s.
2. The ongoing player lifestyle/plate spinning.

I'm trying to path 1 above. I wear condoms.

MGTOW monk mode is not a solution.

Over the course of my life, I've been more of a cold approacher. I've been an app swiper. I used websites at times before apps. I can tell you my worst interactions were website/app started interactions. I've been treated in a subhuman manner in many of those interactions.

Most men do not have the guts to be hardcore cold approachers.

You're exactly right that app swiping and social circle are the preferred methods. I think there's a valid point of trying to set yourself up in female friendly social environments, which can turn cold approaches into warm approaches. That really can't be implemented from scratch now in a pandemic. Most people who turn to apps turn to apps because social circle efforts are fruitless.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

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The most viable paths I perceive are....

1. Serial monogamy with no marriage and no impregnation. A series of 2-5 year relationships until at least one's 60s.
2. The ongoing player lifestyle/plate spinning.

I'm trying to path 1 above. I wear condoms.

MGTOW monk mode is not a solution.

Over the course of my life, I've been more of a cold approacher. I've been an app swiper. I used websites at times before apps. I can tell you my worst interactions were website/app started interactions. I've been treated in a subhuman manner in many of those interactions.

Most men do not have the guts to be hardcore cold approachers.

You're exactly right that app swiping and social circle are the preferred methods. I think there's a valid point of trying to set yourself up in female friendly social environments, which can turn cold approaches into warm approaches. That really can't be implemented from scratch now in a pandemic. Most people who turn to apps turn to apps because social circle efforts are fruitless.
I am with the mgtow monk path for short term which you build a business, product launch or something legit. I am on mgtow with marriage.

I spin plates. I don't care for exclusive LTR. I don't care for it. I don't see LTR anymore a path forward with me given the fact that 80% of divorce initiated by women. Meanwhile hotter girls are turning 18 19 20 21 every day. Real talk.

Sw mate I live by cold approach. Its the modern era. Everyone swipes but my best work is cold approach. I am a sniper. I am either on, balls to the wall running through the clubs with the flame thrower or i am stone cold. In either case, I always shoot.

I love day and night game. I was approaching on pandemic. Success rate was poor but it was global pandemic and pickup is a zero sum game. I approach purely for the sport and love of the game. Any IOIs or choosing signals and i run over her D first.

Unfortunately, all the former playboy in pua are gone. Rsd, Tom Torrero, and others are gone. To date, Julien was the best pua ever irl i saw. Alex is retired. Toddv is going. James Tusk too. YouTube is pc and cucks.

Trp don't approach. Lots of complaining and in fighting. I like MLD and Troy but neither ate bachelors.
 

redskinsfan92

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So you're around.

How has ur improvements been going on?

I've not seen any milestones in ur thread, I trust you know the purpose for keeping on posting there, it sets new bar of standards not just for you but for others who come here.

You hv to give back something after learning some stuff here, ain't nothing is free young man.
Update coming
 

Visionist

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I'm on day five of No porn No fap, going well so far. Couldn't resist googling "Bree Olson rimming" this morning, my first relapse. After a couple seconds I deleted the search.

Was at the beach the other day and I could feel myself thirsting over girls, looking at them briefly. Tomorrow I'll be at the beach all day.
 
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