Women are more Loyal than Men - Challenging Hypergamy

[zekko]

Well that was silly. I’m not saying they are betas or anything else. The point was the women. One even moved up to Eric Clapton when the fame faded.

See the fourth paragraph in my post. George Harrison was still extremely famous when the incident with Clapton occurred. And as I said, Clapton fell in love with her, not the other way around. Harrison's response was "Well, you can have her then", and moved out of the way. He was not only banging other women, he was doing a lot of cocaine at the time, which might help explain the odd reaction. She eventually gave in to Clapton because Harrison basically gave her up, not out of simple hypergamy. Unfortunately for her, Clapton was an alcoholic and that relationship didn't last long either.

Clapton wrote many songs for her, including Layla, and most of the album of the same name. She can be seen in the Hard Days Night movie, one of the blonde girls on the train, which is where George met her.

 

[Ranger]

See the fourth paragraph in my post. George Harrison was still extremely famous when the incident with Clapton occurred. And as I said, Clapton fell in love with her, not the other way around. Harrison's response was "Well, you can have her then", and moved out of the way. He was not only banging other women, he was doing a lot of cocaine at the time, which might help explain the odd reaction. She eventually gave in to Clapton because Harrison basically gave her up, not out of simple hypergamy. Unfortunately for her, Clapton was an alcoholic and that relationship didn't last long either.

Clapton wrote many songs for her, including Layla, and most of the album of the same name. She can be seen in the Hard Days Night movie, one of the blonde girls on the train, which is where George met her.

Not very interesting to me.

 

[sazc]

Reading comprehension consistently lacks.

Cognitive dissonance.

 

[zekko]

You might not find this interesting, but I thought it was amusing. I was just watching the Elvis Presley movie Jailhouse Rock on TCM. In it, Elvis plays a guy who gets sent to prison for manslaughter. While there, another convict teaches him to play guitar, and they perform in a televised broadcast from the prison while still inmates. His performance went over well, and he got some fan letters. Mind you, this was 1957! This is what one of them said:

"Hi, I saw you sing and you looked real cool. My name is Marijane Hamilton and I'm 15 with blue eyes and brown hair. My measurements are 33-25-36. Do you think i need to reduce? Ha ha. If you ever come to River Port, how about giving me a blast on the phone? My number is (gives number)"

Now what do you make of that lol? Hmm.

 

[Ranger]

Whether it is interesting to you or not is irrelevant to the point.

Don't be evasive like Spaz is. Part of being masculine and a leader is to tackle hard facts head-on.

What is the hard fact that I am missing? Please quote exactly.

 

[sazc]

Reading comprehension, lack there of....yep

I mean, I saw it when it actually occurred. Figured it was just too much text to read in total. Now I come to understand that it was read and simply missed, maybe even ignored. Most likely because it didn't support the view point he wanted to advocate.

Cognitive dissonance

 

[sazc]

You asked if Zekko read about the divorcez id the Beatles.

He responded with considerable knowledge on the Beatles.

He even listed many items which supported his position, to you replied that you were "not interested".

Go back and read Zekko's post for the facts you are looking for.

#micdrop

 

[Ranger]

First off. I don’t operate on the prevailing definition of “Hypergamy”.
True some women are looking to move up. But overall this is not what’s happening.

Men, when they get into a standard “relationship” begin to move towards a mythical feminine center.
This is used to hold him in place but she is not being evil.
Today’s men are raised in a feminine world and have propensities that subject them to the feminine idea of relationships and “team work”.

This is a huge mistake. Fatal actually. This reduces him. He is no longer centered on his vision. I don’t care if he’s a member of the Beatles or Led Zeppelin. I don’t care if he’s Putin, Trump or any other man. So, no, I am not interested.

If anyone here doubts he science behind this then you are not paying attention.
Hellen Fischer, Richard Dawkins, Matt Ridley and plenty more.

It’s her JOB to see if she is safe and he is still on his vision. Regardless if he relents to some form of meek and mild dutiful husband or helping boyfriend.

The Idea that she trades sex for resources is so glib in its definition that it’s not even usable. Again another oversimplification like “Hypergamy”

Cognitive dissonance is a term to say that you are unwilling to acknowledge a reality that is fed to you, that conflicts with your own knowingness.
Don’t piss down my back and tell me it’s raining.

Where does everyone’s idea of a relationship come from? Tell where your idea comes from. Go ahead answer that question.

 

[Ranger]

I confess, I don't understand the question.

Where does your version of what a relationship is come from? Mom and dad? A book? Gramdma’s stories? We’re you issued a manual?

 

[Ranger]

Oh, well, that's tough to answer. Obviously it came from many sources. My parents have been happily married 50 years, but they met before the sexual revolution really took hold. So my perceptions were different as a youth, and they never really imposed any rules or values on me. But yeah, then there are books, TV, film, older relatives. By the time I started dating girls I was still pretty stupid though. When I was 23 I was still pretty lost, especially coming out of college where it's all parties and hookups, and that's when I found this site.

I understand. My parents were married over 50 years as well. My grandparents were together until they died.

We get our ideas of relationships from society. A failing society to boot.
You pointed out that even with good parents you were seriously pretty stupid. Well, I don’t think you were stupid. Ignorant of certain truths you had to discover.
So in this day and age, what our parents taught us is pretty much incorrect.
Movies. Books. TV shows. Even worse, what women say they want.

So what version of love are you going to present? Yours or the learned garbage that’s out there? The last person you ever listen to is a woman concerning relationships. Her version is not very survivable. As a rule. She positions on top. The feminine imperative. It’s Disney and not forged from reality.

So who are you? Do you offer something special or just another dutiful husband or boyfriend?
The Beatles is a $hit example. Most celebrities are hideous examples of living. The majority can’t even cook hotdogs or kill a rattlesnake that’s threatening.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

"You know I work all day to get you money to buy you things
And it's worth it just to hear you say you're going to give me everything"

I thought wow, SoSuave would definitely say that is beta.

The beatles were very savvy businessmen. They knew their market, which was mainly HS girls who dreamt of having a husband who wanted nothing more than to work to buy them things.

 

[Ranger]

We should not confuse that they played music targeting their female base....it does not mean they actually felt that way.

I agree. I never once asserted they were beta. Beta is a rediculous word that I don’t even like commenting in a thread that has that concept in it.

 

[Ranger]

This feels like a strawman to me.

Then you haven’t read enough of my posts to make a determination.
There’s no stawman in any of that. It’s straight up. If you need clarification then ask.

 

[Ranger]

I'm my own man, first of all. And I don't think any of us can present anything other than what's unique to us and our experiences. I certainly never said anything about listening to a woman concerning relationships - why are you bringing that up? That's Sosuave 101.

It's funny that on these threads people are always bringing up Disney and female pop culture fantasy. When I was coming of age, I loved characters like Sam Malone in "Cheers" and Dan Fielding in "Night Court." Single professionals who dated different women and had great senses of humor. I'm sure there's a cad or player in just about every show like that. Those are Hollywood-based fairy tale type guys that play on men's fantasies, at least some men's. That's to say nothing of the rock stars I idolized as a kid (like George and Eric) who could have their pick any night of the week. So that stuff cuts both ways - a man's brain can be programmed from an early age as well, for better or worse.

However, at some point I resolved to live an interesting life and do the things I wanted to do. I won't list them here, but I've lived a lot of my dreams and continue to pursue others. My LTRs only seem to cause me to function poorly and lose focus. But, that's partly because I allowed things to happen on their terms and not mine. So, if and when I go exclusive with another girl, properly screened, I hope to offer an exciting life and not just dinner and appliances. And whoever she is I expect her to be a rock - insofar as a woman can be, i.e., supporting me. I'll be happy to reciprocate.

Is that too picky?

Don’t care. I said my piece. I never tell another man what to do. We aren’t at work.

 

[Ranger]

It still feels like a Strawman.


I and others have read enough so that your question "Have you read about the divorces of the Beatles" makes little sense in relation to your last post.

Perhaps you should tell us the point of your question regarding the divorces of the Beatles.

Don’t care. Read enough that they had divorces. In other words. Their model didn’t work. So how is it relevant?

 

[Ranger]

Well, women definitely have more incentive divorce, cash and prizes and all that. They are also usually guaranteed to receive more emotional support from friends and family afterwards than a man can look forward to.

I'm not sure that alone explains women's tendency to be less loyal. But the divorce rate is certainly higher now than it was when there were more incentives to stay married (stigma against divorce, fewer career opportunities for women, etc). Which reminds me:

I was watching the Beatles movie A Hard Day's Night the other day. A lyric from the song caught my attention:

"You know I work all day to get you money to buy you things
And it's worth it just to hear you say you're going to give me everything"

I thought wow, SoSuave would definitely say that is beta. But was it really? At the time, there was more balance between the sexes. Women provided children, sexuality, and comfort, while men provided strength, protection, and financial security. That's just the way things worked in those days (and throughout most of history, in fact), men traded material for sex. It wasn't really beta, it was just the way things were.

Here is his post. Show me the significant part you are referring to.

 

[zekko]

Don’t care. Read enough that they had divorces. In other words. Their model didn’t work. So how is it relevant?

It's not like they invented marriage. McCartney had an excellent first marriage, by most reports, but she died. Not much you can do about that. And as you say, celebrities make bad examples.

Anyway, I've always said that the "alpha/beta" example is mostly useful just as a teaching tool. So I agree that when you start trying to impose that concept on to real people in real life, it gets ridiculous fast. But I still end up using the terms just for lack of a better word at times.

For instance, as I was originally saying, in the culture back in the 50s and 60s, I'm not sure it would be fair to say that the men support/women give sex, children, comfort model was beta. Perhaps it is today, but back then the contract was being fulfilled to a greater degree. Women appreciated that a man would work for her and the family, instead of despising him for it.

 

[Ranger]

If you do not care, then you are lost and will experience no further growth in this area.

Actually I learned a lot in this thread. More than you know. It was very instrumental in filling some gaps for me. The Beatles aren’t it. I don’t care if they were beta or alpha omega killers.

 

[Ranger]

It's not like they invented marriage. McCartney had an excellent first marriage, by most reports, but she died. Not much you can do about that. And as you say, celebrities make bad examples.

Anyway, I've always said that the "alpha/beta" example is mostly useful just as a teaching tool. So I agree that when you start trying to impose that concept on to real people in real life, it gets ridiculous fast. But I still end up using the terms just for lack of a better word at times.

For instance, as I was originally saying, in the culture back in the 50s and 60s, I'm not sure it would be fair to say that the men support/women give sex, children, comfort model was beta. Perhaps it is today, but back then the contract was being fulfilled to a greater degree. Women appreciated that a man would work for her and the family, instead of despising him for it.

We are in agreement then. I don’t even remember anything that I disagreed with.

 

[Ranger]

You were the one who replied asking if Zekko read about their divorces.

Which part were you referring to which prompted that question, and why?

Was that a bad question? I mean it’s pretty simple. They were typical and examples we face today.
The 1960s were a very turbulent time with the new wave of feminism forcing its way in under the radar.
Race was the big story, but was it?

Before the 60s over 85% of blacks were literate. The Kennedy put in the department of education. Run by a former German Nazi psychiatrist.
What’s the percentage of literate blacks now?

Nixon with an executive order did more for race than all the laws that were never passed during the era. Even though I particularly didn’t care for the man based on some of his philosophy on the financial system that I’ve read.

I believe race was a red herring for feminism. But I digress.