Women are more Loyal than Men - Challenging Hypergamy

[mrgoodstuff]

They did. They are no longer “in love”.

It’s a normal progression. There isn’t a divorced woman who won’t admit that at one time they loved that man. This “condition” is actually good for another thread.

The current programming undermines any man. No matter his status, attractiveness or resourcefulness. And women are more miserable than ever.

 

[Machine10033]

The current programming undermines any man. No matter his status, attractiveness or resourcefulness. And women are more miserable than ever.

Absolutely!!!! My buddy makes around 450k a year, very handy and useful guy, beach house, multiple vacations to exotic locations. Him and his wife have 3 kids. Wife stayed at home and took care of kids. He paid all her crap off, paid for her Mercedes, yoga classes, breast implants, private school for the kids, let her go out with her friends 2-3 times a week... and finds out she’s riding the **** train! Not only that but bad mouthing him to the other 2 dudes she’s screwing.

 

[Ranger]

The current programming undermines any man. No matter his status, attractiveness or resourcefulness. And women are more miserable than ever.

They are unhappy. Truth spoken mrgoodstuff.
When the world is handed to you on a platter by husbands, boyfriends, society etc, what’s the game? Where’s the challenge in life? They don’t have to hide from dangerous animals anymore.

I’m a firm believer than human beings need a game. I knew a guy and his wife who were quite happy. They built a machine shop business together. Eventually got contracts to make parts for government equipment.

Then they sold it. But the guy didn’t start a new game and she bored and blasted out of there.
There has to be a game. Making babies is a game until they become teenagers. She’s going to loose it when mom isn’t as important as before. She’s going to need purpose again and if you don’t start a new game...you’re fukked.

It’s a man’s job to set the future. He creates the future. In many ways, this is the leadership she’s looking for. Where are you going to take it? Does she even have a future when she sees you?
YOU have to build it in her mind. She doesn’t know how. It’s not part of her biology. She can go be a doctor but there’s that missing element. Vision. Does anyone really think her vision is about being a cat lady or a dog lady?
She’s looking for a man to build a vision in her mind. If a man wants a wife he better make a game for her to see and help you go towards it.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Absolutely!!!! My buddy makes around 450k a year, very handy and useful guy, beach house, multiple vacations to exotic locations. Him and his wife have 3 kids. Wife stayed at home and took care of kids. He paid all her crap off, paid for her Mercedes, yoga classes, breast implants, private school for the kids, let her go out with her friends 2-3 times a week... and finds out she’s riding the **** train! Not only that but bad mouthing him to the other 2 dudes she’s screwing.

Hes an attractive guy too?

 

[Ranger]

finds out she’s riding the **** train! Not only that but bad mouthing him to the other 2 dudes she’s screwing.

This “bad mouthing” is her fabricated justification. It’s mostly or completely made up.

Taking care of a woman is a death trap. There has to be a vision built in her head. There has to be a game or the game will be getting you and not in a good way.
Anything she gets that she didn’t work for or contribute to will eventually be resented. Trust me on this one. The “good, responsible, provider”, is hammered dog$hit. There is no bigger lie In This world. You put the challenge on her to produce and earn it.

 

[Spaz]

It’s a man’s job to set the future. He creates the future. In many ways, this is the leadership she’s looking for. Where are you going to take it? Does she even have a future when she sees you?
YOU have to build it in her mind. She doesn’t know how. It’s not part of her biology. She can go be a doctor but there’s that missing element. Vision. Does anyone really think her vision is about being a cat lady or a dog lady?
She’s looking for a man to build a vision in her mind. If a man wants a wife he better make a game for her to see and help you go towards it.

Great post here.

Yes, it has always been about effective leadership.

@LARaiders85 this is what you're lacking, you're a smart fellow, those BPD women will soon dissipate and turn into the women you desire.

Create that world for yourself, if it's good you'll prosper with women wanting to live in it and if it's not or you're unable to materialise it then she'll turn BPD after perhaps a year maybe even less.

 

[Ranger]

Here’s what I see when I look out into the world. This was before I came here.

Women have become idolized and completely backed up by society and the state.
Many of them cook hotdogs for their kids but have a closet full of shoes and a couple of hundred dollars or more worth of makeup near the bathroom sink.

Their game, because there are no men to build one in her head and because the state keeps them from utter failure, they can still get fat on crap food.

So where is the game for her? Where is she being threatened from a dangerous environment? Hell she can beat up her boyfriend and he won’t even raise a hand to defend himself out of fear of going to jail and ruining his life.

Women can’t build a future in their mind. They go buy something to feel better but in a couple of days, she’s right back where she was before.
She can be an executive and still be miserable. There’s no creative vision. That’s where the man comes in. When you really don’t have a vision and she finds out? You are going to get one psycho wench on your hands. You’re the enemy!

 

[Ranger]

Even the nicest, sweetest girls will cheat on their boyfriend if you portray yourself as the "lover" in her life. It adds drama to her life and makes it exciting. Trust me.

Oh that’s a good way to put it brother. This.
That’s what I do. Lol nice.

That secret exciting lover that makes it all better. Someone she can go meet with to have her frustrations fukked out of her. I also make sure she knows that I will never jeopardize her situation. That I would rather walk away than trash her family. This actually seals the deal.

She lives out that secret, lust driven drama. She can’t resist it. Best of both worlds.

 

[Spaz]

Here’s what I see when I look out into the world. This was before I came here.

Women have become idolized and completely backed up by society and the state.
Many of them cook hotdogs for their kids but have a closet full of shoes and a couple of hundred dollars or more worth of makeup near the bathroom sink.

Their game, because there are no men to build one in her head and because the state keeps them from utter failure, they can still get fat on crap food.

So where is the game for her? Where is she being threatened from a dangerous environment? Hell she can beat up her boyfriend and he won’t even raise a hand to defend himself out of fear of going to jail and ruining his life.

Women can’t build a future in their mind. They go buy something to feel better but in a couple of days, she’s right back where she was before.
She can be an executive and still be miserable. There’s no creative vision. That’s where the man comes in. When you really don’t have a vision and she finds out? You are going to get one psycho wench on your hands. You’re the enemy!

Some men will think all those PUA tricks is sustainable in the long run.

Dressing up beautifully ? Best facials ? Best pick up lines ? Best muscle tone ? Best manicure and best pedicures? Best OLD profiles ? Best hair cut ? - behaviours that's tied to femininity.

Just create the best world according to ur worldview - ur version that pulls people in, that's ur sphere of influence. That's how you win women. If women admires it they will learn to mold themselves to fit in with ur leadership - when that's done, respect is there - when that's done then "love" is there - it's then ur version of love not just the basic love that's rooted in women's survival.

This is hard to do but that's what men are built for. Use it. And be greater then before.

 

[Reyaj]

Hypergamy consist of many factor not only position and money.

Doctor overall will often have an advantage but many other factor to take into consideration.

A good example is the Prince Harry thread
https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...ow-a-complete-beta.255384/page-3#post-2602944

Well the general idea is that a woman will go for someone with higher status right? There's certainly many cases of this but also many cases of the hot girl going for the dirt bag loser, druggy, or convict. But regardless of either scenario I have found most girls won't stray from a guy they are into for a higher value man. This is actually where I think Des's High Score Theory actually has the most merit in it's description of women's behavior.

A girl that is into an ex convict working at a factory won't just leave him if a good looking doctor becomes interested in her. This is the prime example of what I'm saying.

@Reyaj, you could be right...you could be wrong, as John Lydon once sang.

If by "loyal" you mean a woman is less likely to ride a random c0ck just because the opportunity randomly presented itself, maybe that's true. A lot of men would probably cheat if they knew they'd get away with it, or if the opportunity were thrown at him. Women get c0ck thrown at them 24/7.

But always consider the power of slvt shaming, which when not a deterrent for women is at least a silencer. I've been with women with boyfriends who wouldn't even breathe a word of the fling to their supposed BFFs.

I also believe there is an infidelity spectrum and some girls just reside on the wrong end of it. Yes AWALT but some women are more prone to cheat. My ex cheated with me on her then-BF. I don't doubt she did the same on me. Then again, I wasn't that into her and didn't show much "loyalty."

What was your ex's upbringing like? Are her parents divorced or was she raised by a single parent? Was she a big partier, drinker? Any idea when she lost her virginity or how many guys she's been with? Don't get me wrong there's definitely a lot of women do cheat but from my own experiences it seems like most of the ones brought up in a stable household don't seem to as much.

Cheating aside, it's well known that most divorces are initiated by women. That suggests that women are not as loyal, and that they do not take their commitments as seriously.

It could be that they are simply responding to bad behavior by their men, but that's hardly living up to the "for better or for worse, til death do we part" business, is it?

Most women I've known who are divorced initiated it because of the husband cheating on them, or the husband flat out leaving them for another woman. For what its worth I do agree that a woman should forgive a man for this. This is our natural biology.

Almost every girl I have hooked up with had a boyfriend. Girls would rather stay with a loser boyfriend then be single.

You're 23, not far from college years, partying, etc... You're sample pool is probably much different.

Yes, women cheat more. Typically men invest way more than women into a relationship overall. That sets a different mindset where the man is too invested to cheat.

As well, I’ve been with two women who don’t think kissing and blow jobs count as cheating.

I think you're right as far as the man investing more than the women in scenarios where the woman does cheat. I don't think overall women cheat more than men do though and I don't even think its close!

Men and women are only as faithful as there options, most guys who don't cheat don't have the opportunity to cheat, it's not like they have coochie getting thrown at them 24/7 lol.

For Men I'd agree with this 100% but a lot of women won't entertain the thought of cheating if they are in a stable content relationship regardless of if her suitor is of higher social value so to speak.

It depends on the girl. If a girl is a 7+, between the ages of 18-25, on social media, on dating apps, and goes to clubs and bars.....best believe she is a cheater. You are naive if you think otherwise. I lived in Las Vegas and I have seen girls cheat a week or two before their wedding! Hot chicks with a lot of options will most likely cheat. She is just not cheating with you.

An average chicks with only mediocre options is pretty faithful. So Reyaj I agree with you if the chick is not that hot.

I think Vegas hot girls fall into a completely different category. But throughout just normal areas in the country I think attractive girls with good upbringings don't do this as often as people make it sound. Even girls that aren't that attractive but are above average get plenty of attention...

Attention-seeking and impulsive behaviors, substance use, low self esteem, and troubled childhood. I would imagine those four things would predict quite well whether they'll cheat. Any additions?

A skimpily clothed girl who smokes, likes to get drunk and/or high, is active on social media, has no positive father figure and hungers for validation? the odds are probably higher. On the other hand one of my ex plates didn't really have any of those things except a mild tendency to drink wine and being adopted I suppose, and she told me she'd cheated before, so again you can never draw a hardline. Didn't get to know her very well either though, so can't say if she was hiding things.

One of the most accurate replies, thank you.

 

[zekko]

Or perhaps they have greater incentives in a divorce than what most men have.

Well, women definitely have more incentive divorce, cash and prizes and all that. They are also usually guaranteed to receive more emotional support from friends and family afterwards than a man can look forward to.

I'm not sure that alone explains women's tendency to be less loyal. But the divorce rate is certainly higher now than it was when there were more incentives to stay married (stigma against divorce, fewer career opportunities for women, etc). Which reminds me:

I was watching the Beatles movie A Hard Day's Night the other day. A lyric from the song caught my attention:

"You know I work all day to get you money to buy you things
And it's worth it just to hear you say you're going to give me everything"

I thought wow, SoSuave would definitely say that is beta. But was it really? At the time, there was more balance between the sexes. Women provided children, sexuality, and comfort, while men provided strength, protection, and financial security. That's just the way things worked in those days (and throughout most of history, in fact), men traded material for sex. It wasn't really beta, it was just the way things were.

 

[samspade]

False because most people consider other peoples' feelings when they make their decisions and feel better if they can make others feel better. People also have the ability to honor concepts like trust, even if they know an action (like cheating) will never be found out and thus never impact another's feelings. Meaningless because if you define doing so as also being within your "self-interest", then all behavior is within one's self-interest simply by definition and it becomes a meaningless term.



For some people, the feeling of loyalty can be its own reward.

Exactly. It's all self-interest. That doesn't make it meaningless, quite the opposite. You even described the "feeling of loyalty" as its own reward. People stay loyal to a partner because they like seeing the other person happy and it also makes them feel good. If you're doing something that makes you feel lousy, then you're not living a very good life. Choosing to stay loyal instead of cheat means an individual prefers the consequences of one option over the other - based on how happy it will make that person. Caveat, some people choose to be miserable, in order to please others before themselves. Some people are "loyal" to abusive or disrespectful partners but not to themselves. But it's not zero-sum; you can please others and yourself if it's what YOU want.

But hey, if we fundamentally disagree, I respect your position - no need to go back and forth about it.

 

[Spaz]

Well, women definitely have more incentive divorce, cash and prizes and all that. They are also usually guaranteed to receive more emotional support from friends and family afterwards than a man can look forward to.

I'm not sure that alone explains women's tendency to be less loyal. But the divorce rate is certainly higher now than it was when there were more incentives to stay married (stigma against divorce, fewer career opportunities for women, etc). Which reminds me:

I was watching the Beatles movie A Hard Day's Night the other day. A lyric from the song caught my attention:

"You know I work all day to get you money to buy you things
And it's worth it just to hear you say you're going to give me everything"

I thought wow, SoSuave would definitely say that is beta. But was it really? At the time, there was more balance between the sexes. Women provided children, sexuality, and comfort, while men provided strength, protection, and financial security. That's just the way things worked in those days (and throughout most of history, in fact), men traded material for sex. It wasn't really beta, it was just the way things were.

Back in those days it's considered basic, as in one having the basic necessities to survive.

It's not balance as you pointed out per se but more towards lack of options/social restrictions that led towards choosing a partner.

 

[zekko]

It's not balance as you pointed out per se but more towards lack of options/social restrictions that led towards choosing a partner.

I think it was balance, although I suppose some women of the era might disagree with me. Notice today how many men complain about how women have all the options and advantages in the dating game. All the Black Pill, MGTOW stuff, even the basic PUA movement. Women today want to have everything the male has, and with careers open to them they don't really need men in the same way anymore. So they can earn the finances and have the sex appeal inherent in the female.

Women can have a career and make good money, but a man is never going to look good in a bikini.

 

[Spaz]

I think it was balance, although I suppose some women of the era might disagree with me. Notice today how many men complain about how women have all the options and advantages in the dating game. All the Black Pill, MGTOW stuff, even the basic PUA movement. Women today want to have everything the male has, and with careers open to them they don't really need men in the same way anymore. So they can earn the finances and have the sex appeal inherent in the female.

Women can have a career and make good money, but a man is never going to look good in a bikini.

Well we have feminism that's driving tons of women into being single mom's and being old spinsters

 

[guru1000]

Well, women definitely have more incentive divorce, cash and prizes and all that. They are also usually guaranteed to receive more emotional support from friends and family afterwards than a man can look forward to.

I'm not sure that alone explains women's tendency to be less loyal.

Let’s define “less loyal.”

If cheating, women are solicited with more options, so less loyalty accordingly.

If staying in a marriage, most women have greater incentives in a divorce, so less loyalty accordingly.

If staying in a non-marital relation, women are solicited with more options, so less loyalty accordingly.

Yet, there are men whom despite the above weighted disadvantages of less options and less incentives, repeatedly gain the loyalty of women in their relations. Why do you suppose?

Men, Let’s stop pointing outward for a minute and give some thought to this question to best serve YOU.

 

[zekko]

Well we have feminism that's driving tons of women into being single mom's and being old spinsters

Yes, and I would say this is being done partly by driving men out of the marriage game, which is partly because the male/female dynamic has become imbalanced.

Yet, there are men whom despite the above weighted disadvantages of less options and less incentives, repeatedly gain the loyalty of women in their relations. Why do you suppose?

I was speaking generally. You can't really make sweeping statements about an entire gender without speaking in general terms. Obviously higher value men will command more loyalty from women (in general) because there are fewer higher branches to swing to. And obviously some women will tend to be more loyal than others. Some men will be more discerning at finding those "more loyal" women, some men will make it a priority to find those "more loyal" women, and some men will not.

 

[guru1000]

I was speaking generally. You can't really make sweeping statements about an entire gender without speaking in general terms. Obviously higher value men will command more loyalty from women (in general) because there are fewer higher branches to swing to. And obviously some women will tend to be more loyal than others. Some men will be more discerning at finding those "more loyal" women, some men will make it a priority to find those "more loyal" women, and some men will not.

The answer to my question goes beyond his value and screening, and deals more with frame.

How can a man’s frame shape a women to such a degree that Hypergamy (for her) is dead?

 

[zekko]

How can a man’s frame shape a women to such a degree that Hypergamy (for her) is dead?

I'd say you need both frame and value to maximize your results. It's more difficult to manipulate a man who knows his self worth, and such a man will be more respected.

But I am well on record here as believing there is no way to completely guarantee loyalty from a woman, I don't care how "alpha" you are, how high your SMV, or how solid your frame. Like I said, you can maximize your results.

 

[BeTheChange]

Btw for the record, never cheated on a girl where exclusivity had been agreed on.

But it’s not in most girls’ best interest to be exclusive with me, the “asking price” to such a surrender is very high.

Can you elaborate on this guru?

I'm in a delicate situation where I've been seeing a girl for three months now. It's likely she'll press for exclusivity at some point. Although she's fine for plate status (solid HB7/7.5), she isn't quite hot enough for the girlfriend title (HB8+). She's already explicitly stated she would "leave" if I were dating other women, meaning I've had to revert to covertly pursuing other options.

If we continue as we have been with no explicit conversation then it's likely she will still assume monogamy by this point.