Work Related--finding the strength to forgive and move on

[Interceptor]

Thanks for all the insight guys. When I started at this forum it was all about learning to turn a girl's drama against her and to come out on top. Then I started seeing stuff that NO AFC wants to see, "chicks aren't everything, get your life in gear first then WATCH the quality women come" and it's threads like these that show me what really COUNTS in life. And it's not women. It's having body, mind and soul working together CONGRUENTLY so that you can RESPOND to your life's circumstance, not REACT---and by doing that create a fantastic KINGDOM for yourself, with yourself as noble king and ruler of your own life.

I have no shame in saying that I lived 31 years in a self-inflicted fog and with the help of POSITIVE MEN like you I am learning to focus on what truly matters in life (no, it's not just chicks) and am learning ways to be a congruent, healthy Man. My balls drop with a big "thud". Like Mike alluded to--the way you handle yourself with women, and the way you handle the rest of your life--it's all connected. How you handle one is a good indication of how you handle the other.

As for this topic, you guys just helped me to accept what I already knew deep down-- and that is fear and weakness take the forms of complacency and "comfort" (even if it's a deceptive, destructive form of comfort) with the status quo. And that's just not good enough for me anymore. Life really IS pushing me in a new direction. This job is history. The rest of my life is the future. Thanks again. :woo:

Reset, my brother.

You've made my day, man.

Thank you.






I wanted to add a little bit to your post.
You made me think about something your wording...

A "gilded cage" is not fit for a King.

But a King must have the courage to assume his throne IN THE WILD.

Where there is uncertainty, and danger, and challenge.

The wild is our Kingdom, not a gilded cage..........


Being a Man means fully accepting and assuming one's own identity, complete and whole.

And sometimes we do not like what we see.....

 

[reset]

The wild is our Kingdom, not a gilded cage..........


Being a Man means fully accepting and assuming one's own identity, complete and whole.

And sometimes we do not like what we see.....

Yeah I'm not liking the cage. Life will be much more interesting out in the wild. Good thing I'm realizing the cage has always been unlocked.

 

[Latinoman]

This isn't really about women, but this is a big part of my life. Coming to terms with this stuff is what being a Mature Man means to me, which is why it's not in Anything Else. I'm posting it to get it off my chest so I can move on, any comments are appreciated. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's been in this situation.

I've been at my job for almost six years. A few months after I was hired, my manager who hired me quit because he the owner is a huge jerk. So, the owner brought in someone who he was friends with. I was only about 25 at the time so I guess I didn't EXPECT to become the new manager of my department (a department of two people, basically my position and the supervisor). But the new guy who became my "boss" was completely inept, had about three percent of the skill and ability I had. I actually had to train my own manager. And for a few years (yeah, I put up with this for a long time) it was just a constant nightmare of me covering up his mistakes, having to do his work over for him... I basically took on the role of supervisor of my department and everyone came to me and of course this guy started resenting me because he realized he had no chance of finding a job anywhere else and I was a huge threat to him.

So as our department grew, we added new employees. Each time a new person was brought on, my "boss" would go on vacation for two weeks, FORCING me to train these new people (his job). We all became close. Everyone thought it was just a matter of time before I became manager. Anyway, one of these people is a chick, and we've worked together for a few years but my "boss" has decided that she's less of a threat than me, so he's decided to give her all the good assignments, and when she was loyal to me now she's loyal to him, and it hurts a little because no one in this department would even have a job if I hadn't trained them and saved their butts time and time again. So it hurts, I feel like I've been ostracized from the little group I built up here.

I have learned to be very assertive here. I have brought up these concerns to the owner of the company and he's scared to death I'm going to leave now, and has told me he MAY make me the manager of my department. But it's just a bunch of people who are afraid to lose what they have. I've outgrown it. I have to move on and find a better environment. I wonder if men just keep fighting and fighting and fighting... I don't want to "give up" like I "failed" to get my goal of becoming manager, but I've outgrown this job, even this situation.

I'm just upset with how you can't really trust people or count on them. I want to stay positive and upbeat in life, and be a man. I've done all the political moves and speaking up I can. Nothing changes. Part of me wants to tell everyone to go to hell, but I know the best thing is to just move on with my life. But it's hard to move on when you feel victimized, it's like you get caught up in the drama... same thing with chicks. The drama just perpetuates itself and you become addicted to the problem. I deserve much better.

You have been there for 6 years. It is time to move on. Six years is more than enough time for a first job (and I'm talking real job here). After that, the moves can be every 3-5 years, a new job.

However, do NOT burn any bridges. Find a new job and once you do...give your boss enough time for transition and to train somebody to take your place. But you MUST move one now...because you are unhappy and also you have been there more than enough time.

 

[reset]

Thanks Latinoman... I've been thinking about my "personal boundary" and I allowed myself to be trampled over... no wonder it feelt bad. I should have looked out for my own best interest instead of getting mad at other people looking after their own best interests.

 

[Interceptor]

Reset, I think childhood behaviors, in terms of reward/punishment also had a lot to do with how we developed our Personal Boundaries.
Im sure plenty of us grew up being 'nice' and accomodating to our parents, especially our mothers. We learned to be rewarded for our 'good behavior" as children, as little boys.
Being 'good' and being rewarded for it metamorphosized into the AFC 'nice guy" syndrome. In which males are too nice and too accomodating and non threatening.
What served them well in childhood, without reasonable arenas for masculine behavior/reasoning development eventually became the choice for adult personal behaviors, much to our detriment.
We took these behaviors we learned by pleasing our Mommy, and then 'logically" applied them to our interactions with females whom we were attracted to. Hence the classic AFC symptoms of gifts, cards, poems, flowers. All learned behaviors from our interactions with mommy.
Eventually, hopefully, with so much failure along the way in acting like a little boy even when we are fully grown adults, we will realize we can no longer apply 'boy psychology' and behavior to adult interactions and circumstances.
We must become shrewd, and socially clued in.


But now as adults, finding ourselves having our Personal Boundary tested, we often revert to the accomodating persona, and often give in to people who try to force their opinions, ideas, sugestions etc on us. In order not to make waves, per se, we accomodate with them, all the time having this gnawing pain in our gut knowing we are not respecting ourselves, our true wishes, and our Personal Boundary.


Asserting our Personal Boundary is the only way to keep our alignment with our true intentions intact. It also protects our Emotional Resources, Intellect, Time, and our Self Esteem.
Also, assertin our Personal Boundary is crucial in maintaining one's own IDENTITY. As many men here know first hand, that whenever they have problems that are feeling 'vague" or they 'can't put their finger on it". or they simply can't understand why they are being passive about someone making a decsion FOR them....these are all signs of WEAK Personal Boundary.
Lack of IDENTITY means WEAK Personal Boundary.

Hence, we you may realize why I keep repeating the notion of Knowing Oneself, and building an Identity and knowing one's own mind, and paying attention to one having preferences, ideas, opinions, etc.

Learning to say "NO" goes a long way. And is the first step in regaining our self esteem and self respect. We learn how to be composed and assertive. These traits benefit in all areas of life. And are necessary traits for mature masculinity and High Character.
And helping us align ourselves to our Internal Compass.

 

[reset]

Cool Interceptor. I actually read the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" about a year ago coming off the BPD chick. I thought I had most of it licked, I didn't though. I've asserted myself here like crazy. The mistake I made was assuming if it didn't work the first time it would work the next, and the next, year after freaking year. Then I end up yelling at people and letting all the rage out because I can't control people.

As for mothers, I never really got along with mine, grew up being told she never loved me (dad raised me) and she's basically bi-polar, so yeah that's had a MAJOR influence on me and women. It's why I attract chicks who don't have much to give and why I get scared when it comes time to follow through.

See I CAN learn from the past. :rock:

And also this personal boundary includes how you treat yourself. You have to treat yourself as good if not better than you would expect another civilized person to treat you... I never really made that connection before. Been thinking of that all day though. Why should I expect others to treat me well if I don't do it first, how could they even.

 

[reset]

....As you got more attached, you began expecting loyal 'friend" behavior, rather than "Gimme what's mine, dog! Get out of my way!" behavior.

Victim puke edited. What I've learned is: people will always think they are in the right. So being mad and expecting them to apologize or see the error of their ways probably won't happen. And it's not about you it's about them.

Most problems are probably caused by not understanding this.

 

[Interceptor]

See, it takes tremendous Emotional Strength and great Emotional Resources to be able to be 'close' and 'friends' with people, and NOT "expect' certain things in return.

Reset, every one has their own lives, man. Their own issues to deal with.
Some people CANNNOT handle a mature friendship or romantic relationship, Reset.

We have to accept that.

We are dealing with a lot of scared, needy , impatient, immature, despearate, frantic people out there. And to expect people to have mature high class and character is simply too much in this day and age.

"Hey, I am loyal and friendly , giving and kind so OTHER people SHOULD be that way TOO! It's what I expect! That's how I EXPECT to be treated!!"

Wrong.



We can't live in this 'needy' or seeking constant 'reassurance' mode of thinking.

We can't place our happiness on someone else. We can't give them our responsibility.

That is just asking for trouble.

Buit most guys just get really embittered and blame everyone and try to NOT be intimate and vulnerable and open, and share their deep feelings with others.
You see them all the time.

"Women are b*tches! Every one of them."
"People are ass holes. They will always try ot stab you in the back!!"

Things like that.

But as the old Chinese proverb goes;

"He who does not trust, will not be trusted."

And its true.
We should live by the Golden Rule. But EXPECTING others to do so a well is unfortunately in this day and age, immature and delusional.


Emotional BALANCE, and equilibrium. in which we are NOT swayed by external factors.

That is maturity.


Having Self Esteem strengthens our Personal Boundary.

having a strong Personal Boundary enables us to live in an aware and self directed manner.

Having a strong Personal Boundary lets us live knowing we CANNOT be 'hurt'.

No one can hurt our self, unless we let them.

And the only thing that can be 'hurt' is our Ego or Pride.

Not Self Esteem.
Self Esteem lasts forever, once it's there, it cannot be taken away.

We say Yes to good behavior, and NO to bad behavior.

We do not accept Win/Lose deals, or bad deals from people.
Only Win/Win deals.

We do not live behind WALLS.

We do not hide.

We know that as our main inernal reosurces are strong, that our Personal Boundary cannot be violated.
The more self esteem we have, the greated the size of our Personal Bondary, thus, more confidence and courage.

And the more inner resource we have, the more courageous we are in our action and we can NOW SHARE these much more freely , independenlty, and without expectations. We now live in an Abundance Mentality.
There are NO 'shortages' of your inner resources then.....

 

[reset]

Thanks dude. No, I'm not going to change who I am just to accomodate a "get them before they get you" attitude. I've had enough crap happen to me and I still treat people with respect, and am trusted. I could be totally jaded at this point but whatever. You're right I just need to lower my expectations of other people being like that. I know that I have those qualities and that's enough.

I have built walls and that's why this is bothering me. It's a small group and we've all worked together very closely for years and gone through a lot together---it's like my family. I really don't have anything else going in my life social wise except an AFC buddy or two. And here I am getting ready to split (like you say a man moves on) and completely turn my world upside down and I'm basically leaving behind everyone I know. Not healthy but at least I see it.

If I actually had more going on in my life I wouldn't be as emotionally invested in people, you're absolutely right. I just have to basically change everything, my entire approach to life. But I'm doing it, it's not like I'm turning back now.

I can be wise to the world but not jaded by the world. I don't want walls. I guess if you have a strong, "rock-like" center you don't need walls to protect you.

Personal Boundary, emotional strength. And leaving situations that aren't healthy.

 

[Interceptor]

Thanks dude. No, I'm not going to change who I am just to accomodate a "get them before they get you" attitude. I've had enough crap happen to me and I still treat people with respect, and am trusted. I could be totally jaded at this point but whatever. You're right I just need to lower my expectations of other people being like that. I know that I have those qualities and that's enough.

I have built walls and that's why this is bothering me. It's a small group and we've all worked together very closely for years and gone through a lot together---it's like my family. I really don't have anything else going in my life social wise except an AFC buddy or two. And here I am getting ready to split (like you say a man moves on) and completely turn my world upside down and I'm basically leaving behind everyone I know. Not healthy but at least I see it.

If I actually had more going on in my life I wouldn't be as emotionally invested in people, you're absolutely right. I just have to basically change everything, my entire approach to life. But I'm doing it, it's not like I'm turning back now.

I can be wise to the world but not jaded by the world. I don't want walls. I guess if you have a strong, "rock-like" center you don't need walls to protect you.

Personal Boundary, emotional strength. And leaving situations that aren't healthy.

Reset, man..you HAVE it.

You have IT.

 

[reset]

 

[KontrollerX]

"No, I'm not going to change who I am just to accomodate a "get them before they get you" attitude. I've had enough crap happen to me and I still treat people with respect, and am trusted."

Totally.

Letting the scumbags effect you enough to change you from a good person to a cut throat piece of garbage with a get them before they get you mentality towards people only helps the scumbags win by killing a good part of who you are.

Don't let this happen reset.

Anyway reset a book I'm going to recommend to you is called "I can't get over it" and is about post traumatic stress disorder.

Most victims of Cluster B Personality Disordered people have this so it may help you recover from it a bit.

PTSD can hinder your moving forward in life just as much as an AFC mentality.

Probably moreso.

So I definitely recommend it.

 

[reset]

Thanks dude, I'll look into it. You know I never even thought about it like that... when the BPD chick left I went DIRECTLY to the other girls at work without even taking a break (and that didn't work out either). I kind of used her tricks on them. Yuck.

Now all the girls are gone and I'm right back to where I was before AW arrived on the scene a year and a half ago. Damn just to think a year ago I was in a living HELL.

lol. Thanks again.

 

[KontrollerX]

No problem reset.

After my experience I became a liar and manipulator for a while and then I stopped myself and said what the fvck am I doing? This isn't me.

Then I started researching Cluster B and discovered that this process is called picking up fleas and is common among Cluster B Personality Disorder victims.

My theory is this happens because we believe we loved them so much we want to keep them with us through carrying on their traits. *Vomits*

I was able to shake those fleas off completely I'm happy to say but yeah these people are so destructive to themselves and others its amazing.

We just have to keep moving forward as best we can.

Upward and onward as it were.

 

[reset]

Cool. I guess I never dealt with it, when she left it was such a relief but it wasn't too long ago. I've kind of blocked it out. Now it just seems like a weird dream.

Yeah, onwards and upwards. :woo:

 

[reset]

Well I got written up today for something minor and was told I have an attitude problem by the same people I am supposed to go complain to. Huge political move by my "supervisor" and I told him I wasn't signing anything relating to me being written up. I said all I wanted to do was go to work listen to my iPod and be left in peace, and then was told I listen to my iPod too loud. Then I was told that my co-workers don't like me personally.

He said he didn't think it was right that people from the other department kept telling me how good of a job I was doing. He didn't think it was fair that I should get singled out for recognition so he sent a mass email to the company saying do not single people out for praise. He didn't see a problem with that.

I said we can continue this discussion with the owner of the company. Haven't heard back yet.

This is what happens when you're too good for someplace, and you don't take action and stick around. You have to deal with your consequences. This is all my responsibility. The result of my actions. Hopefully this isn't coming off as a victim. I'm just "ugh".

Good thing I am actively looking. Logged.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Well I got written up today for something minor and was told I have an attitude problem by the same people I am supposed to go complain to. Huge political move by my "supervisor" and I told him I wasn't signing anything relating to me being written up. I said all I wanted to do was go to work listen to my iPod and be left in peace, and then was told I listen to my iPod too loud. Then I was told that my co-workers don't like me personally.

I said we can continue this discussion with the owner of the company. Haven't heard back yet.

This is what happens when you're too good for someplace, and you don't take action and stick around. You have to deal with your consequences. This is all my responsibility. The result of my actions.

Good thing I am actively looking. Logged.

Suggestion, play nice and try not to depict yourself as one who isolates himself from his coworkers. It could be used as another red mark on your permanent record... You don't need anything to happen that would give them cause to sever your working relationship before you secure a new position. It'll just make selling yourself to potential new employers a bit more difficult.

 

[reset]

It's a tiny little room. 3 people. Im doing better at getting along with everyone.

I guess I'm just going to make the best of this and bite the bullet for as long as I have to.

I'm not a troll. I laugh and kid around with people. I was doing that yesterday. And today.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Cool.

 

[reset]

Yeah screw it. Life just isn't fair. Not fair, never fair. Not fair. Won't be fair. Just had to vent so I can stay focused.