women are not YOUR protector

[BlackWidow]

Yeah, and again I wasn't remarking about Rollo's post.

I guess I'm saying that I AM getting bitter, lol. I'm seeing all this negative crap for some reason. I'm not sure why. I'm learning a lot on this site but at the same time I'm starting to not like women as much, and doing all this without getting pissed off is a challenge.

I know it's not women it's my perception though.

And why have a low regard toward women because the guy might not have the capacity to actually be a man..when did it become the woman's fault that the chump can't man up? Can people not take responsibility for their own faults? Or is this comment just another projection of fault?

 

[ketostix]

And why have a low regard toward women because the guy might not have the capacity to actually be a man..when did it become the woman's fault that the chump can't man up? Can people not take responsibility for their own faults? Or is this comment just another projection of fault?

But you're doing the same thing, placing fault on men for not being "real men". And are you seriously saying that women and society in general don't constantly guide men to be AFCs as Rollo pointed out? For instance, do you know how easy it is for women (and men) to say creepy! whenever a man acts like a real man?

 

[iqqi]

By far the most important ingredient in having a happy, healthy relationship with a woman would be that the man needs to BE A MAN. Everything else is details.

Lol, and choosing a woman with strength and morals is not an important ingredient? You can't turn a h0 into a housewife.

 

[iqqi]

Part of me wanted to ask from the beginning, is this post based in your fears that you are not REAL men?

 

[ketostix]

Part of me wanted to ask from the beginning, is this post based in your fears that you are not REAL men?

Nah I'd say it's based on concerns that there's not many real women and ones that appreciate a real man anyway.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

And are you seriously saying that women and society in general don't constantly guide men to be AFCs as Rollo pointed out? For instance, do you know how easy it is for women (and men) to say creepy! whenever a man acts like a real man?

I see where you're going with this KETO, but the conflict is who bears the blame. Are you not a Man because society cultivated you not to be, or is it because you lack the character to be so? One thing about feminine social contrivances and (*shudder*) the Matrix at large is that they serve (in most cases misguidedly) latent functions for filtering out the Men from the men. The reason SS exists is to open men's eyes to this, but once they're aware of it, even if it's just marginally, it's at that point that they have to bear some (if not all) of the responsibility in their maturing into Men. The Matrix exists because men allow it.

 

[BlackWidow]

But you're doing the same thing, placing fault on men for not being "real men". And are you seriously saying that women and society in general don't constantly guide men to be AFCs as Rollo pointed out? For instance, do you know how easy it is for women (and men) to say creepy! whenever a man acts like a real man?

I think you might be confused...I never blamed men solely. I merely stated the obvious—everyone here knows the world is packed with chumps. I've experienced it plenty of times.

I, in fact, DO agree with RT's ideas about the origin of the AFC (media entertainment, the women's conflicting response, etc.). But my point is, even after knowing the origins and causes of becoming AFC, why not take responsibility that it is up to that individual to make the change and stick to it. The rest (women) will follow suit. Women respond positively to the non-AFC male, those who don't are conflicted themselves and aren't worth giving the time of day.

 

[iqqi]

Nah I'd say it's based on concerns that there's not many real women and ones that appreciate a real man anyway.

If that was the case the argument wouldn't keep turning to the extreme, that no woman wants or will stay with a weeping man.

Look, no good woman who loves you is going to leave when you cry cuz your dog got hit by a car. No good woman is going to leave you if you take a few months to get over your mom passing. No good woman is going to leave you if it takes a year or two to get over your whole body paralysis. Especially if she stayed with you through that!

Women do want a man who will be vulnerable with her.

A strong woman will stand by you if a sudden depression takes you (though be honest, if this happens, you probably have a history of depression, and if you are in a real relationship this shouldn't come as a surprise). Strong women ARE rare, about as rare as strong men. But they will try to "save you". It takes strength to deal with depression. Most people can't handle it.

But if you are talking some deep depression, that you won't or can't fix, that leaves you unable to take care of her emotionally either, or physically or at all, that is a whole 'nother ballgame, one that most people don't have to worry about.

But you are right. Most women won't save you. Most women can't save you. And in order to save themselves, they may leave you. This MAY BE for the best, for you too.

A woman who sticks by you could be seen as an enabler, and BAD for you. She may have issues of her own that need fixing.

Only you can save you.

 

[ketostix]

I see where you're going with this KETO, but the conflict is who bears the blame. Are you not a Man because society cultivated you not to be, or is it because you lack the character to be so? One thing about feminine social contrivances and (*shudder*) the Matrix at large is that they serve (in most cases misguidedly) latent functions for filtering out the Men from the men. The reason SS exists is to open men's eyes to this, but once they're aware of it, even if it's just marginally, it's at that point that they have to bear some (if not all) of the responsibility in their maturing into Men.

Well I agree with that, men have responsibility for their self and being a man. But I also believe women have responsibility for being a real woman too. What I'm getting at is it's not a given that women really want a quality man per se or even realize one when they see it. Sure women want a good looking guy, financially successful and a guy who knows his value, but women really don't want to be women and for men to be dominate like it naturally should be. As much as I hate to say it, it is what it is. I don't think there's a lack of quality men out there relative to quality women.

 

[BlackWidow]

Lol, and choosing a woman with strength and morals is not an important ingredient? You can't turn a h0 into a housewife.

Like the man said, everything else is details. Once a man is in fact a man, everything else responds on que.

 

[ketostix]

Like the man said, everything else is details. Once a man is in fact a man, everything else responds on que.

This is where you are totally wrong. You give women too much credit. A man can be a man and no doubt that helps, but it doesn't stop any woman from sh!t testing and trying to make him crack. And sometimes women leave for a bigger better deal even if he doesn't give in. You're getting it off topic, but you're giving credit and virtues to women they don't always have.

 

[BlackWidow]

This is where you are totally wrong. You give women too much credit. A man can be a man and no doubt that helps, but it doesn't stop any woman from sh!t testing and trying to make him crack. And sometimes women leave for a bigger better deal even if he doesn't give in. You're getting it off topic, but you're giving credit and virtues to women they don't always have.

Incorrect. I'm giving credit to deserving MEN. My man's natural self-confident self is well deserving of my upmost respect. And he gets it. He is worth his weight in gold and then some and our relationship exists flawlessly from this. From the respect and desire I have for him for being the man he is, and his for me for being the woman I am in return.

 

[mrRuckus]

You big baby. You sound like you just want things to be so easy for you, so you don't have to work at all to become a real man.

Ah, once again real man = "serves wommins da best"

Get the hell out of here with your female shaming language. It's bad enough I have to hear it in real life from cretins without it invading a Mature Man's forum.

*I* define what a man is. These other men define what men are. Not some bored woman getting her jollies on the men's board. We built the world; we sure as hell are going to be the ones who define the words to describe it.

 

[reset]

Hey at least she said it to you directly.

 

[MacAvoy]

This thread is exactly why women's posts should be limited. I'm not saying there is absolutely no use for them, however this thread is dragging on and on, when Joekerr has made all his valid points, along with some good input from other posters.

Now all its being reduced to is a men vs women arguement with Icky and Blackwidow. At least Pen didn't get offended and feel the need to go on a long tangent to stick up for the weaker gender.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

But I also believe women have responsibility for being a real woman too. What I'm getting at is it's not a given that women really want a quality man per se or even realize one when they see it. Sure women want a good looking guy, financially successful and a guy who knows his value, but women really don't want to be women and for men to be dominate like it naturally should be. As much as I hate to say it, it is what it is. I don't think there's a lack of quality men out there relative to quality women.

Let's not go back to the "quality" woman crap again. People are intimately aware of their own conditions, even when they're in the periphery and they're not focusing on them in the conscious. They are going to behave in ways that these conditions dictate. If they can pull it off and look good doing it so much the better, but they will address these conditions.

That said, lets start with a novel idea here; what if all women ARE 'real' women already? If you put a juicy t-bone steak in front of a hungry Doberman what's he going to do? He's gonna eat! He may have to find ways to get to that t-bone, but he'll get to it. We can say "well, he's not a real Doberman because he had to jump over that fence or he had to swim to it rather than directly grab it", but the end result is the same.

Now suppose for a second that the Matrix was necessary for women to filter out lesser men from the "real" Men. The need is the same; security, provisioning, protection, etc. all the stuff that millennia of evolution has predisposed women to value in Men, but the methodology has changed. We're only defining what makes a woman "real" by how well she meets these lofty moralistic idealisms, without seeing that the reason she autonomously sh!t tests, communicates covertly, and creates these elaborate psycho-social contrivances is because she's looking for the Man who actually sees through all this crap and is still a Man in spite of it all. We can cry foul all day long, but the more we do the less masculine we're perceived as.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Now all its being reduced to is a men vs women arguement with Icky and Blackwidow.

I disagree. And this is not directed at you MAC, but BLACK WIDOW isn't on some power trip, she's only recognizing the value of masculinity (and showing appreciation for it) and a I think it may be a cold bucket of water for the guys who think she's being condescending. How many Men here wouldn't want to be appreciated for being positively masculine? This thread started out casting Men in the role of protector - so be it, but here's a woman not only confirming this for you, but also saying she shows her respect for her masculine Man with her unfettered and real desire? C'mon! If anything this is the kind of woman a Man does want, one that genuinely appreciates the masculine.

 

[reset]

Now suppose for a second that the Matrix was necessary for women to filter out lesser men from the "real" Men. The need is the same; security, provisioning, protection, etc. all the stuff that millennia of evolution has predisposed women to value in Men, but the methodology has changed. We're only defining what makes a woman "real" by how well she meets these lofty moralistic idealisms, without seeing that the reason she autonomously sh!t tests, communicates covertly, and creates these elaborate psycho-social contrivances is because she's looking for the Man who actually sees through all this crap and is still a Man in spite of it all. We can cry foul all day long, but the more we do the less masculine we're perceived as.

Interesting. One thing I'll say for me is I can see these tests much clearer now. I'm starting to think that women burn you not to eliminate you from the gene pool but to toughen you up so you can be better equipped to handle the next one. At least that's how I am choosing to look at this stuff.

 

[BlackWidow]

I disagree. And this is not directed at you MAC, but BLACK WIDOW isn't on some power trip, she's only recognizing the value of masculinity (and showing appreciation for it) and a I think it may be a cold bucket of water for the guys who think she's being condescending. How many Men here wouldn't want to be appreciated for being positively masculine? This thread started out casting Men in the role of protector - so be it, but here's a woman not only confirming this for you, but also saying she shows her respect for her masculine Man with her unfettered and real desire? C'mon! If anything this is the kind of woman a Man does want, one that genuinely appreciates the masculine.

This is EXAAACTLY my intent. I'm not here to point fingers and pull hair.

I want to provide a women's POV for the guys who came to this thread to learn how to ditch the inner AFC. Here I am, standing in the flesh confirming that AFC behaviors will get sh!tty results and won't produce quality relationships (short term, long term or what have you). I've been in the trenches and had these relationships myself! It taught me to be aware of what I don't want—another AFC in my life.

 

[MacAvoy]

My apologies, I actually only skimmed BlackWidow's post after I read a couple of Icky's and completely ignored hers through the thread.

I'm a man and can admit when I'm wrong.