women are not YOUR protector

[guru1000]

If you can't open up to a girl and share some of the stuff you are going through, then I don't see how you could have that emotional bonding joekker referred to earlier. Basically you're just having sex and laughing. But even in that case I guess there's bonding, but it's superficial. But what do I know, I'm here to learn.

I believe that whatever you think and the type of vibe you put out, is the type of vibe that will come back to you. Negative vibe, negative circumstances, negative people. When you're in that mindset, do you REALLY think a positive influence can break through? No. Only in movies. You don't "see it" because all you see is negative. And if you're more positive then you'll have the same thing, more positive experiences. And you won't "see" negative as much.

There's a lot of bitterness here. Myself included. I guess part of the answer is be wise the the world but not jaded by it.

Amen! God forbid, yet another Napolean Hill concept. :yes:

 

[reset]

Amen! God forbid, yet another Napolean Hill concept. :yes:

Yeah, I'm in line with that stuff. But this bitterness can rub off on you, then you get more of that. Sometimes it's a challenge to learn how to protect yourself in life and at the same time not get all pissed off that you have to protect yourself, lol.

 

[MacAvoy]

not to derail this thread (which i've thoroughly enjoyed), but i dont think anyone can be a rock in and of themselves.

life is just too hard and filled with too many let downs.

a man must believe in something greater than himself. let that be whatever it may be - but let it be anything other than a woman! heck, i'm watching gladiator right now and this movie will help a man more than any woman ever could.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. Although I'll give you that men must need to believe in something. For me, there is nothing more powerful on this earth than me. I am my own higher being, without the belief in myself, I wouldn't have the strength to put my life back on path when life puts you down.

One of my favourite quotes is from the Rocky Balboa movie "The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get it and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done! Now if you know what you're worth then go out and get what you're worth. But ya gotta be willing to take the hits, and not pointing fingers saying you ain't where you wanna be because of him, or her, or anybody! Cowards do that and that ain't you! You're better than that

I experience things that I wouldn't wish on anybody. I've lost unborn children to miscarriages, I've even had to go through worse heartache than that, it was the darkest period of my life, I went through about a year of not caring about anything, I would have murdered someone if given the opportunity.

However the only thing that pulled me through it, was realizing that I've never been just a survivor, I've always thrived in my life. I wasn't going to let it beat me. It was hard to learn to live again, learn to feel, learn to trust, but the only thing that got me through it was my belief in myself and the knowledge that I'm an amazing person. Why throw that away.

 

[BlackWidow]

The problem is: we really are human beings. But a woman doesn't want a man, she wants a superman. She wants something unreal.

Until and unless something changes joekerr's advice is the best. Really though, there should be some way to put a foot up women's azz's and make the realize that men are human beings and that's ok.

Until then... *sigh*

You big baby. You sound like you just want things to be so easy for you, so you don't have to work at all to become a real man. Get with it! Women don't want supermen, when a man'll suffice. But they're so hard to come by, because the world's full of guys like you and your binary, feminized mental programming.

 

[reset]

eh.

 

[Colossus]

the big mistake most men make, even those who play protector in the beginning, is that over time they slowly, every so slowly, start to interact with their gf/wife as they would their mother. they slowly start to burder her with their inner thoughts, with the stresses of their life, etc. - they start to show her more nad more how 'human' they are (ie. weak).

and while a woman will be responsive to this short term (because it makes her feel that she is developing a bond with you), if she sees to much she starts to get buyers remorse - she starts to think 'oh man. I never thought he was this weak. what's he going to be like in 10 years? i better get out of this now."

like i say, general rule of thumb, turn to anyone BUT your woman for support. i mean, go see a psychologist once a week, go for beers with the guys, anyone BUT your woman.

This is a profound insight, Joekerr. Something most men never realize. Or if they do (like me), it's often too late.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

There's a lot of bitterness here. Myself included. I guess part of the answer is be wise the the world but not jaded by it.

Why do you see it as bitterness? It is what it is. All that's been done thus far is exposing it, how you choose to deal with it is up to you. The truth will set you free, but it won't make it hurt any less, it wont make it pretty for you.

The whole perception of this masculine/feminine dynamic is only cruel when you look at it in moralistic terms. I'm sure we'd all be a lot more comfy if women (and men) could be expected to live up to lofty ideals and shared convictions, but it's simply not what we see exhibited every day. Now, by me mentioning this, am I bitter about it? Only if you've been conditioned to interpret it that way. Understand that anything I say, as a Man, about anything feminine that is even objectively critical makes my interpretation suspect of being bitter or biased. This is an effective mechanism that curbs real insight - it automatically poisons the well. It's the perfect cycle; exposing the uncomfortable truth makes you suspect for doing so.

 

[reset]

There's guys pissed off at women and posting from that mindset. Not all but some. Just like the rest of the board. I didn't say you personally were bitter. I was making a general statement.

From guru's standpoint I'm probably bitter myself and that's why I'm picking up on it.

 

[BlackWidow]

I think that one flew right over, RT.

 

[MacAvoy]

It's all really simple.

Lover's Love = Conditional
Mother's Love = Unconditional
Confusing the two = Disaster

Awesome post !!!

 

[reset]

I think that one flew right over, RT.

Was that in response to something I said? If so, if you have something to say about me, say it to me directly. Thanks.

 

[MacAvoy]

Overall this has been a great thread with some really good points made throughout by Joekerr, it was a little longer than it needed to be thx to Icky but she got Joekerr to explain his points in more depth which ended up adding to the thread (plus I just skipped anything Icky said as it wasn't adding anything IMO)

However Senor makes a good point here, which expands on RT's generalization concept

Human nature is the real issue here.

Lets face it, as a whole, we are not the most noble creatures on the planet. Neither man nor woman is immune from being a selfish and miserable assh0le at some point in their lives. So why focus on the flaws of one sex?

We get burned repeatedly until we learn discernment.. not just for our romantic interests, but for all our adult relationships.

If anything we should learn to spot the behavior patterns of dysfunctional people, that way we can avoid disaster in the first place.

Thing is that many of us ignore the signs even when we know better.. our optimism gets the best of us and we project a very unrealistic image onto our friends and lovers. We think they let us down, but the whole time, they were just being who they were.

Good women are out there. You have to plow through a lot of worthless hoes to find them, but they do exist. Is that a guarantee that you will never get hurt by them? Nope..

Love is a gamble sometimes, but you stand a better chance at happiness if you know how to work the odds in your favor.

-----

With regards to the original post, I could not agree more.

 

[guru1000]

Why do you see it as bitterness? It is what it is. All that's been done thus far is exposing it, how you choose to deal with it is up to you. The truth will set you free, but it won't make it hurt any less, it wont make it pretty for you.

The whole perception of this masculine/feminine dynamic is only cruel when you look at it in moralistic terms. I'm sure we'd all be a lot more comfy if women (and men) could be expected to live up to lofty ideals and shared convictions, but it's simply not what we see exhibited every day. Now, by me mentioning this, am I bitter about it? Only if you've been conditioned to interpret it that way. Understand that anything I say, as a Man, about anything feminine that is even objectively critical makes my interpretation suspect of being bitter or biased. This is an effective mechanism that curbs real insight - it automatically poisons the well. It's the perfect cycle; exposing the uncomfortable truth makes you suspect for doing so.

If this was a controlled study, this thread would be biased.

99% of the members have been burned.

That being said, not all, but some will be bitter. Reset makes a Valid point about thinking transmuting your new reality. Your thoughts determine your actions and destiny.

We all have objective opinions. We don't see it everyday. Why cloud our future with biased thoughts.

Yes there are many valid threads on this site. I could never refute that. But let's not be so fast as to state it as FACT, when it may be a biased opinion. I too am guilty of this crime.

Having conviction in your beliefs is GREAT. Imposing your beliefs on others who are validation sponges is not good practice.

 

[MacAvoy]

Guru,

It sounds like your arguing for the sake of arguing. What does a controlled study have to do with the original post?

 

[reset]

Yeah, and again I wasn't remarking about Rollo's post.

I guess I'm saying that I AM getting bitter, lol. I'm seeing all this negative crap for some reason. I'm not sure why. I'm learning a lot on this site but at the same time I'm starting to not like women as much, and doing all this without getting pissed off is a challenge.

I know it's not women it's my perception though.

That being said, not all, but some will be bitter. Reset makes a Valid point about thinking transmuting your new reality. Your thoughts determine your actions and destiny

 

[Last Man Standing]

I dont know man. When some of you "generalize", you do tend to take it to the extreme, and these newjacks take everything you say as gospel.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't prepare folks for disaster, because lord knows we all been there... but women aren't really the source of the problem. Your cynicism seems a little very misdirected.

Human nature is the real issue here..

You are missing Joeerr's point and meaning - he is not a cynic or calling woman evil - he merely is stating the natural order of things!! Women are not protectors of men - this is their genetic design - physically and mentally they were not designed for this task!! But you do have it right when you say it is about human nature - human nature is exactly what Joekerr is talking about!! He is not generalizing - he is just speaking the truth!

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

There's guys pissed off at women and posting from that mindset. Not all but some. Just like the rest of the board. I didn't say you personally were bitter. I was making a general statement.

From guru's standpoint I'm probably bitter myself and that's why I'm picking up on it.

No, I understand what your interpretation is, all I'm asking you to do is ask yourself why you'd think they were "bitter"? This is a feminine social contrivance that's in the same vein as shame. Any guy that has a point about the feminine, no matter how valid, can always have his argument poisoned because he's a guy and most guys are frustrated that they aren't getting any and this is his little way of venting. The same can be used with women, but it's never as valid because they play the role of sexual filter. We can point out bitter women, but they're always cast in the victim role, so even if they are bitter it's always justified.

I'm just asking you think about it, because, when men can be convinced to participate in women's social contrivances half their work is done for them.

 

[ketostix]

You big baby. You sound like you just want things to be so easy for you, so you don't have to work at all to become a real man. Get with it! Women don't want supermen, when a man'll suffice. But they're so hard to come by, because the world's full of guys like you and your binary, feminized mental programming.

You're mising his point I think. He's saying women want a "real" man yet women aren't being real women. That's really the whole issue, women expecting something they don't deserve (but they can get it anyway) and women expect a guy to be the man while they subvert rather than facilitate masculine behavior.

 

[reset]

Well I know why they are bitter, from what you said, what they do doesn't work and it pisses them off. It did/does for me as well. Bitter because their perception of reality didn't work out. And probably bitter from all the wasted time that could have been spent having more fun if "they knew then what they know now".

I'm not sure what you're saying about the social contrivances. I think you're saying I'm helping them by being mad at them.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

But a woman doesn't want a man, she wants a superman.

I think that real, positively masculine, confident in there own gender, Men have been so absent for so long that anything resembling them makes both genders uncomfortable. For AFCs these rare guys ARE Supermen and it's threatening for them because they embody the guys they were told NOT to be like and they'd get the girl. Then they see these guys hooking up with the same women who told them so or in relationships where these guys set the frame and it turns into resentment of both the Supermen and/or the "fickle" women and their contradictions.