Why Does Man Lie?

[iqqi]

Have you seen this? Sums it up pretty well.

Haha. That was pretty funny.

However, the specific liar I am thinking of... (drumroll)... doesn't just lie to woman. What of a man, who lies to men?

 

[joekerr31]

I completely resonate with this, we are the same in this way!!! I boldened my favorite parts, that I could have written myself. Don't you HATE feeling naive? At the same time, I know it is the "downfall" of being true. And... It is true, you do tend to think people are like you. Which makes me wonder about the people who see the world so negatively, by the way.

being naive IS NOT the downfall of being true.

being ignorant / naive is not some virtue - its a bad thing. it doesn't make you TRUE, it makes you ignorant.

it also assumes that you can't be knowledgable and true at the same time - when in fact, the only way to true is to be knowledgeable. if you aren't, then you aren't being true, you're just a sheep who has been conditioned to think a certain way.

 

[iqqi]

being naive IS NOT the downfall of being true.

being ignorant / naive is not some virtue - its a bad thing. it doesn't make you TRUE, it makes you ignorant.

it also assumes that you can't be knowledgable and true at the same time - when in fact, the only way to true is to be knowledgeable. if you aren't, then you aren't being true, you're just a sheep who has been conditioned to think a certain way.

That's harsh. So you are saying me and TM are sheep, and NOT people who inherently assume people are as honest about the things we are honest about?

 

[ThunderMaverick]

being naive IS NOT the downfall of being true.

being ignorant / naive is not some virtue - its a bad thing. it doesn't make you TRUE, it makes you ignorant.

I don't think she or I are arguing those points either.

I even said I hated that part about myself. Being true to others IS a virtue in my eyes. That's why I say I never want to misrepresent myself to anyone.

There's nothing wrong with giving someone the benefit of the doubt if you don't know them either. You can only judge through actions.


You can choose to meet someone and automatically assume they're liars.

Or you can choose to think they're truthful until proven otherwise.

Either way the burden is on THEM if they do lie...and get caught of course.


I'm quoting myself from above

I even said I hated that part about myself.

I only hate that part of myself when I actually catch someone in a lie I believed. Hahaha. If someone tells you a lie and you think it's truth because they want you to believe it, how is that bad on your part? Especially if you had no reason or evidence to believe otherwise?

You only feel stupid or angry after you find out the truth.

 

[cordoncordon]

Iqqi I think both men and women lie, most of the time to protect themselves or to give them an advantage in some way.

On the whole I think men like to either get into a women's pants or to somehow protect his ego or manhood, and women generally lie about things that are so small and inconsequential that it sometimes boggles my mind. Just things that are not even worth fibbing about, but they do.

 

[joekerr31]

That's harsh. So you are saying me and TM are sheep, and NOT people who inherently assume people are as honest about the things we are honest about?

you're the one who said 'being naive is the downfall of being true' - which makes a clear statement that you must be naive to be true.

which is utterly ridiculous.

and anyone who is naive is a sheep. the absolutely greatest sin you can commit in this world is the sin of being naive - because naive people can be lead to do anything.

you know why we are in a recession? cuz a bunch of naive idiots signed up for mortgages without knowing what they were signing up for.

you know why guys end up divorced and broke, because they didn't understand women before marrying one.

only in the world of women can being naive be seen as a virtue.

well its not.

moreover, if you are a quote 'good' person who is naive, then you aren't good at all. you are only good for the time being, until someone convinces you to be otherwise.

you can only be TRULY good if you understand the choice between good and bad, and choose good.

all the great moralistic leaders - jesus, gandhi, mother teresa, mendala, etc. - they were NOT naive. they understood the choice and they choose to be virtuous.

if you dont understand the choices you have, then you are a sheep - a sheep on a good path mind you, but a sheep none the less.

 

[Warrior74]

I am going to keep this extremely bare of a question, before I go deeper into what is on my mind. The only structure I want to give to this discussion at this point, is that I mean Man, as in men. I am well aware all people lie, but I'd like to focus on the reason men lie.

Discuss.

Why do women lie?


People lie out of two major reasons. FEAR. and for GAIN. Then there are the smaller lies out of COMPASSION.

People who tell the blunt honest truth all of the time and hurt people....these people are sadist with no compassion and hind behind 'just being honest!'. Scum.

 

[ThunderMaverick]

Yes Jesus and Gandhi and mother Teresa knew the ills of this world, but if a person came up to them and told them something I'm sure they wouldn't automatically believe it was a lie. I'm sure they saw more good in people than bad. Jesus said he came down to take on our sins. He believed despite how ugly we could be that we were all "worthy".


I believe "people are good" like you say. Like if I dropped my wallet I ASSUME someone might find it andl return it to me. I don't always assume someone is going to steal it and take my identity.


If someone lies to me or does me wrong then the burden of living with that is on THEM not me.

 

[cordoncordon]

you know why we are in a recession? cuz a bunch of naive idiots signed up for mortgages without knowing what they were signing up for.

Actually just to clarify this. It's not the peoples fault they received mortgages that they are now foreclosing on. It's the Fed's fault for lowering interest rates to historic lows 6 years ago that allowed banks to make these outrageously risky but potentially very profitable loans. The Fed did this to keep the economic bubble/easy money game alive after the stock market bubble of the late 90's imploded. If the Fed had just let things alone instead of making credit and money so readily available 6 years ago, none of this would have ever happened.

Now they are doing it again, though this time they are flooding the market with money to help the banks earn profits, not you and I. If you notice even though interest rates are again super low, mortgage rates are not and access to easy mortgages are not either. Instead of passing along these low interest rates to you and I, the banks are borrowing from the fed on the cheap, investing that money in higher earning bonds and securities, and taking in the profits.

I could go on and on about the Fed but all i will say is if you think the Federal Reserve is out to protect the average American you believe wrongly. Look how they just tried to outright steal Bear Sterns, just like they stole a sh1tload of banks back in the Great Depression. They are thieves.

 

[ThunderMaverick]

It's the Fed's fault for lowering interest rates to historic lows 6 years ago that allowed banks to make these outrageously risky but potentially very profitable loans.

Weren't those rates adjustable though? Didn't people know that going into it?

 

[cordoncordon]

Weren't those rates adjustable though? Didn't people know that going into it?

They thought that IR's would stay low for the foreseeable future. Plus they were just out for the quick buck. A lot of the housing problems were caused by flippers, people not even interested in staying in the house. That created a false market and allowed prices to skyrocket artificially. Now instead of letting the natural market forces correct the excesses, the Fed is stepping in again to try and save everything. Thing is in 2 years they will only have made things worse...again.

Just let the market do its thing. But the govt is way to involved now and so it is what it is.

 

[Phyzzle]

Another informative link.

 

[joekerr31]

the fed lowered rates, then lenders put people into mortgages they wouldn't be able to afford long term, 2 years later 5% interest rates jumped to 14% interest rates - CRASH.

the people were often approved when they shouldn't be - and those people just trusted that the lender wouldn't be giving them a mortgages they couldn't afford.

none of this would have happened if the people taking these loans took the time to understand what they were getting in to. or understood even the most basic elements of finances and 'living within your means'.

the fed and financial institutions took advantage of the blue collar workers and their naiveness.

most of the people who got screwed in all this were poor folks, who didn't know what they were getting in to cuz they were naive. all they knew was 'hey, no money down, low mortgage rates, yay, sign me up.'

DUH, f*cking idiots - theres no such thing as a free lunch in this world. if its too good to be true, it probably is.

 

[Warrior74]

stop being little faggots and get back on topic. do that **** in pm.

 

[cordoncordon]

stop being little faggots and get back on topic. do that **** in pm.

Oh quit whining.

 

[iqqi]

Ok, here is a question that is related. Spitzer was a man who lied to the People. He lied about who he was. And what he stood for (or against). But then it turns out that he was lying. What kind of lie was that. (Lets not focus on whether or not prostitution should be legal or not-this is about the lie).

Was it a lie out of guilt? Shame? And does it matter that his campaign had a lot to do with getting rid of, or punishing for, something he supposedly was against... but HE was in fact doing himself?

 

[joekerr31]

Ok, here is a question that is related. Spitzer was a man who lied to the People. He lied about who he was. And what he stood for (or against). But then it turns out that he was lying. What kind of lie was that. (Lets not focus on whether or not prostitution should be legal or not-this is about the lie).

Was it a lie out of guilt? Shame? And does it matter that his campaign had a lot to do with getting rid of something he supposedly was against... but was in fact doing?

try pragmatism. not guilt, shame, etc.

if he told people he banged hookers he'd have lost his job.

i dont know why any of this is confusing to anyone. someone earlier hit it on the head - people lie out of fear or gain.

in spitzers case, it was both. he was afraid of losing his job and being publicly humiliated and he wanted to keep his job and keep making the money he was making.

although technically he never lied. i dont know of any examples where he said he didn't bang hookers - no one probably thought to ask

 

[Warrior74]

Oh quit whining.

lol. you wish it was whining. you know im right. and it worked. hate me son.

 

[Phyzzle]

Eh, this topic is why do men lie. The answer was, why do people lie? That's pretty much the end of the thread topic.

I see nothing to indicate that the lie in question had anything whatsoever to do with the gender of the liar.

 

[iqqi]

try pragmatism. not guilt, shame, etc.

if he told people he banged hookers he'd have lost his job.

i dont know why any of this is confusing to anyone. someone earlier hit it on the head - people lie out of fear or gain.

in spitzers case, it was both. he was afraid of losing his job and being publicly humiliated and he wanted to keep his job and keep making the money he was making.

although technically he never lied. i dont know of any examples where he said he didn't bang hookers - no one probably thought to ask

Ok, I am still interested in what others think of that.

And it IS sort of obvious why politicians lie. I will give you that. It is as black and white as you say, fear or gain.

But what of the man who lies for what seems like no apparent reason. Like the guys who lied to TM, for instance.

What about a man who lies about his ideas. And beliefs... WHAT would be the point of that??

And I think I am coming to some sort of understanding...