When a woman says "we can go out as friends"

[zekko]

"Only as friends" can mean anything from “I’m not interested at all,” to “I’m not looking at you romantically right now, but I’m open to getting to know you,” to “I like you, but I don’t want to seem easy,” and everything in between. The point is that attraction is communicated through a pattern of words, body language, and behaviour. People who focus only on words or only on actions often misread the situation.

Yeah, it's not a good idea to get too wrapped up with labels. Different people define different terms differently. I remember talking to a girl about the words "going out" and "dating". She thought that "We're going out" was way more serious than "We're dating", which she saw as very casual. I told her I thought it was the opposite. But basically, people go out to get to know each other and have a good time. What difference does it make what people call that at the beginning? Most people don't start out as lovers, it's more of a feeling out process. Now if you go out for a bit and she then decides you're just a friend, then that's not so encouraging.

Anyway, what if she wants to be a friend with benefits? The whole thing is silly, really.

 

[viking22]

There is a difference between a GENUINE friendship that can sometimes blossom into a romance and the LJBF (let's just be friends) soft rejection that women give guys.

Also you aren't interested in being friends with this girl. You want to sleep with her. So you're being disingenuous.

 

[BadBoy89]

There is a difference between a GENUINE friendship that can sometimes blossom into a romance and the LJBF (let's just be friends) soft rejection that women give guys.

Fair

Also you aren't interested in being friends with this girl. You want to sleep with her. So you're being disingenuous.

Thats an assumption.

A man can be friends with a girl and want to sleep with her at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Tbh this one is kinda tricky innit?

What's good advice? To tell him " ditch her ( lets say hb8,5) because its a humiliation ritual ". Yet ,she will go through all the motion to prepare for a date / being out in public including shaving her self...

Yes, if a man has an abundance he could and perhaps should ditch her. But let's be real; if a man only gets som many shots at hot women he just might give it a try...

Again, personally I wouldn't go through with it. But I can also imagine "dons" saying he shouldn't give up yet.

A man with options has no time for this type of silliness.

 

[Gamisch]

A man with options has no time for this type of silliness.

True...

 

[viking22]

You've been training with this girl for several months. If an organic friendship was going to develop it would have done so by now.
Buying her lunch is just another way to buy her time.

Even if you do not have abundant options and she is hot really this is just a humiliation ritual because she will be nice but continue to keep you at arms length and brush you off if you persist with trying to force some kind of friendship/relationship.

 

[RangerMIke]

It's okay to have female friends if that is what you want. But it doesn't sound like you want that with this woman, so my advice is to go with her to this "friend's lunch date", so you don't look like a butt hurt little b1tch, then forget about her.

 

[BaronOfHair]

@BadBoy89 "How does Sosuave take it when a woman they like says "we can go out as friends?"

If I'm otherwise unengaged, and she seems like she may be still susceptible to influence, I take her up on the offer. Chances success vanish faster than the overall population of South Korea, if we throw in the towel, the moment an obstacle appears

 

[Kang the Conqueror]

A date was your offer. Friendship became her choice. Let that choice become her prison. If she returns seeking more, deny her the victory she once refused. Some doors are sealed by one’s own hand.

 

[BadBoy89]

You've been training with this girl for several months. If an organic friendship was going to develop it would have done so by now.
Buying her lunch is just another way to buy her time.

Not necessarily. It could be workout talk the whole time, all business.

Even if you do not have abundant options and she is hot really this is just a humiliation ritual because she will be nice but continue to keep you at arms length and brush you off if you persist with trying to force some kind of friendship/relationship.

A man can't turn it around in a different setting?

I think zekko said it, this is different than a man going out with her several times and then a woman says it. If a woman is willing to be seen with the man and spend with the man, whether its a free lunch or not, its an opportunity.

I'm little surprised the top Alpha Dog's in here are saying "you're done" and "humiliated" and "its over" when a woman says "we can go only as friends". The response I gave was "Sure, I'll pick you up at 12 pm." In fact, my response could be interpreted as "yes I want friendship too, you are not hot enough for me to sleep with you."

For alot of men, it takes time to develop something with a woman. They aren't top men on Sosuave where a woman's clothes come off after a 1st date and the hot woman feels blessed she gave into her basic instincts to such a Alpha.

Yet maybe they should work on being that guy.

 

[Clockwerk50]

Not necessarily. It could be workout talk the whole time, all business.



A man can't turn it around in a different setting?

I think zekko said it, this is different than a man going out with her several times and then a woman says it. If a woman is willing to be seen with the man and spend with the man, whether its a free lunch or not, its an opportunity.

I'm little surprised the top Alpha Dog's in here are saying "you're done" and "humiliated" and "its over" when a woman says "we can go only as friends". The response I gave was "Sure, I'll pick you up at 12 pm." In fact, my response could be interpreted as "yes I want friendship too, you are not hot enough for me to sleep with you."

For alot of men, it takes time to develop something with a woman. They aren't top men on Sosuave where a woman's clothes come off after a 1st date and the hot woman feels blessed she gave into her basic instincts to such a Alpha.

Yet maybe they should work on being that guy.

This is just irrational and a good example of confirmation bias. You're choosing to believe the possibility you hope is true while ignoring the stronger evidence right in front of you. You are paying more attention to things that support the outcome you want and dismissing the information that go against it.

Rational thinking means looking at all the evidence and choosing the most likely explanation. Emotional thinking often starts with what you want to happen and then finds reasons to support it.

 

[Mike32ct]

The waters are also muddied by the fact that the OP is her client and the “date” was pitched as a way to thank her for her training services.

This isn’t a typical “Hang out with a chick and try to figure out if she’s attracted or not.”

At first glance, it sounds like she’s implying “Ok we can go eat, but don’t get the wrong idea. This is not a date.”

 

[zekko]

"How does Sosuave take it when a woman they like says "we can go out as friends?"

If I had known about what the manosphere said about going out as friends when I was younger, I probably would have gotten angry if a girl suggested we go out as friends. Fortunately, when I was younger, we didn't have the internet, or I would have missed out on some interesting experiences. But as it is, I was able to have them since I didn't know any better. One thing I was doing anyway was working several girls at once. You miss 100% of the swings you don't take.

 

[The Duke]

Whenever I have heard the "friends" word, I was gone. Lots more women in the sea that aren't putting up instant road blocks.

Always ask yourself this... if the hottest/richest man alive was asking her out, would she say "but only as friends"?

Girls that really want to go out with you and think you are amazing don't make it difficult.

Can these things work out in your favor?...Sure. Is it ever worth it?...Rarely.

My guess is she had some sort of interest in you otherwise she would not have gone out with you, nor gone out with you multiple times. The "but only as friends" statement was just for her to play it safe. But the fact that she went out a couple times tells me she clearly understood this was more than just friends. That is the "action" that showed her hand.

Girls aren't dumb, they play it coy often, indirect, and are rarely literal especially when they are getting to know you romantically.

I think you took a chance on a hot commodity and did the right thing. All you are out is a little time and money. Maybe she has hot friends? You never know where these things can lead to.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

Yes, if a man has an abundance he could and perhaps should ditch her. But let's be real; if a man only gets som many shots at hot women he just might give it a try...

Again, personally I wouldn't go through with it. But I can also imagine "dons" saying he shouldn't give up yet.

It's all subjective, as what constitutes a "don", an "alpha", or whatever other title that used used in the manosphere to describe a man's behaviors and/or mentality...particularly in the context of dating.

That said..in my opinion..

A man who willfully subjects himself to be in the friendzone by a woman, cannot be considered a "don juan" or an "alpha male".

Nor can a man be an alpha, if he is advising men to be friends-zoned.

One of the traits of an alpha male is leadership.

As a man, you are to lead the exchange and dictate the type of relationship you want with a woman, and if she doesn't follow your lead, then she aint for you.

Move the f on, and find women that will follow your program.

If you allow yourself to be friends-zoned, you are following her lead..when she should be following your lead.

But, that's what scarcity will do to you.

It will have to you panting around and following women like a pet puppy B!TCH.

Instead of being a wolf; a man of abundance, standards, and principles.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Not necessarily. It could be workout talk the whole time, all business.



A man can't turn it around in a different setting?

I think zekko said it, this is different than a man going out with her several times and then a woman says it. If a woman is willing to be seen with the man and spend with the man, whether its a free lunch or not, its an opportunity.

I'm little surprised the top Alpha Dog's in here are saying "you're done" and "humiliated" and "its over" when a woman says "we can go only as friends". The response I gave was "Sure, I'll pick you up at 12 pm." In fact, my response could be interpreted as "yes I want friendship too, you are not hot enough for me to sleep with you."

For alot of men, it takes time to develop something with a woman. They aren't top men on Sosuave where a woman's clothes come off after a 1st date and the hot woman feels blessed she gave into her basic instincts to such a Alpha.

Yet maybe they should work on being that guy.

Any man with options would have zero time for this silliness. Period.

And any woman who knew the man has options that was actually interested would never even try that to begin with.

You seem to be getting yourself twisted up like a pretzel trying to figure a way to crack a case that would be better served letting go cold.

By the time anything with this woman will happen, you could have dated and fvcked multiple other women and have a rotation going where you wouldn't even have room for her.

The issue is more that your time should be valuable and you shouldn't entertain this type of nonsense regardless of what you think could happen which is most likely a projection of what you want to happen versus what she wants to happen.

 

[Gamisch]

Any man with options would have zero time for this silliness. Period.

And any woman who knew the man has options that was actually interested would never even try that to begin with.

You seem to be getting yourself twisted up like a pretzel trying to figure a way to crack a case that would be better served letting go cold.

By the time anything with this woman will happen, you could have dated and fvcked multiple other women and have a rotation going where you wouldn't even have room for her.

The issue is more that your time should be valuable and you shouldn't entertain this type of nonsense regardless of what you think could happen which is most likely a projection of what you want to happen versus what she wants to happen.

It's all subjective, as what constitutes a "don", an "alpha", or whatever other title that used used in the manosphere to describe a man's behaviors and/or mentality...particularly in the context of dating.



That said..in my opinion..



A man who willfully subjects himself to be in the friendzone by a woman, cannot be considered a "don juan" or an "alpha male".



Nor can a man be an alpha, if he is advising men to be friends-zoned.



One of the traits of an alpha male is leadership.



As a man, you are to lead the exchange and dictate the type of relationship you want with a woman, and if she doesn't follow your lead, then she aint for you.



Move the f on, and find women that will follow your program.



If you allow yourself to be friends-zoned, you are following her lead..when she should be following your lead.



But, that's what scarcity will do to you.



It will have to you panting around and following women like a pet puppy B!TCH.



Instead of being a wolf; a man of abundance, standards, and principles.

Okay yall kinda convinced me

 

[BadBoy89]

This is just irrational and a good example of confirmation bias. You're choosing to believe the possibility you hope is true while ignoring the stronger evidence right in front of you. You are paying more attention to things that support the outcome you want and dismissing the information that go against it.

This is the similar to the advice given on Sosuave.

Since I didn’t sleep with her, a lot of the responses were “you didn’t listen to her” “it was a waste of time” “I’ve never been friendzoned”. ‘You were humiliated”

If I had slept with her, the responses would have been “good you brushed it off, girls are silly“. “Good you focused on your goal”. “Good you weren’t fazed by her words”

The advice given on Sosuave depends on the outcome of the situation.

 

[Clockwerk50]

This is the similar to the advice given on Sosuave.

Since I didn’t sleep with her, a lot of the responses were “you didn’t listen to her” “it was a waste of time” “I’ve never been friendzoned”. ‘You were humiliated”

If I had slept with her, the responses would have been “good you brushed it off, girls are silly“. “Good you focused on your goal”. “Good you weren’t fazed by her words”

The advice given on Sosuave depends on the outcome of the situation.

Yes, on most forums people judge a decision by how it turned out instead of by what information the person had at the time. That's just how online advice forums usually work. But if you ignore the outcome and just look at the advice people gave in this thread, a pretty clear pattern shows up.

The first debate was what "friends" actually means. The majority (about 60%) said to treat it as a soft rejection, respect the boundary, and not waste time trying to change her mind. The minority (about 30%) said the label isn't decisive, to watch her behaviour instead, and that if she's still willing to spend one-on-one time with you there's still an opportunity. Regardless, they even admitted the odds were low; they didn't say it was impossible but that the most possible outcome it was that it is unlikely.

Secondly, the next debate became whether, even if there's a chance, it's worth pursuing. The most common answer was that even if there's a 10% chance, a man with options is better off pursuing women who show clearer interest. The argument was that the expected payoff in a situation such as this is too low. From this perspective, "friends only" lowers the odds enough that pursuing someone else is the better expected-value decision, even if exceptions exist.

So overall, about 3/4 of the replies were basically saying to treat it as a rejection, or at least not invest much time into it, while about 1/4 thought there was still a chance if you handled it well. The point was that, based on the information available, the higher-probability outcome was that it would not become romantic, and the odds were not in your favour. Looking back, that's exactly what happened, you had a few lunches together, but it never progressed beyond that.

Lastly, I'll leave you with a quote from The Art of Seduction:

"Throughout life we find ourselves having to persuade people—to seduce them... Seducers, whether sexual or social, prefer to pick the odds... To leave people who are inaccessible to you alone is a wise path; you cannot seduce everyone. On the other hand, you must actively hunt out the prey that responds the right way. This will make your seductions that much more pleasurable and satisfying."

Hope this helps.

 

[FurryFriend]

Take this "only as a friend" comment with a grain of salt.

What she's really saying is, this is a no-strings-attached date and she's not obligated to give you anything in return whether it's sex. attention, a second date, a hug, etc.

Don't worry about this comment. Any chance to spend time together is a good thing. Women say this nonsense stuff all the time. When did we all start taking women so literally?