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What's wrong with Stoicism?

jhonny9546

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There are some good aspects, like outcome independence and learning to let go, but overall Stoicism seems to turn us into passive beings. It feels like having “desire,” “ambition,” or “passion” for something is seen as wrong.
 

What happens, IN HER MIND, is that she comes to see you as WORTHLESS simply because she hasn't had to INVEST anything in you in order to get you or to keep you.

You were an interesting diversion while she had nothing else to do. But now that someone a little more valuable has come along, someone who expects her to treat him very well, she'll have no problem at all dropping you or demoting you to lowly "friendship" status.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

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It's easy to be a stoic when you are Roman emperor or at the position of power, with money and success surrounding you.

For the most of men, stoic approach is something they never practice - not because they do not want to (at least some of them understand the concept) but because things happen and they lack necessary means to deal with them efficiently => hardships take over their stoic approach.
 

BillyPilgrim

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I think it comes down to control OP. Ideally you want to feel your emotions but control them and have the ability to keep them to yourself if you choose.

An inner Italian, outer German if you will. You want to still be in touch with your Inner Italian :p
 

taiyuu_otoko

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The idea that stoicism=reserved is a misconception.

You control your emotions, even if you want to be a super charismatic extremely persuasive public speaker. All those emotions that flow into that state are managed.

Stoicism is about discipline, which most people lack these days.

Stoicism teaches you how to consciously decide what emotions are most appropriate to get the outcome you want, and resonate those.
 

holidayad_

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The years when I was closest to Stoicism were the best in terms of relationships and financially stable decisions.
 

Tell her a little about yourself, but not too much. Maintain some mystery. Give her something to think about and wonder about when she's at home.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

FlexpertHamilton

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There are some good aspects, like outcome independence and learning to let go, but overall Stoicism seems to turn us into passive beings. It feels like having “desire,” “ambition,” or “passion” for something is seen as wrong.
Stoicism is widely misunderstood, I think "Spock" from Star Trek is what most people think Stoicism is. True Stoicism as invented by the Greeks and refined by the Romans around the turn of the century is completely different than what people know. Stoicism does not cultivate passivity or emotional flatness in any way shape or form.

If anyone is interested in learning about it, I highly recommend "A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy" as an introduction, then read Marcus Aurelius, Seneca, Epictetus, and Rufus, in that order, and then also consider reading competing Greek philosophy around that same era (Epicureanians, Cynics) to see what context Stoicism originated from.

Stay away from Ryan Holiday and any other millenial/influencer clowns and stay away from Reddit too.
 

jhonny9546

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If anyone is interested in learning about it, I highly recommend "A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy" as an introduction, then read Marcus Aurelius, Seneca, Epictetus, and Rufus, in that order, and then also consider reading competing Greek philosophy around that same era (Epicureanians, Cynics) to see what context Stoicism originated from.

Stay away from Ryan Holiday and any other millenial/influencer clowns and stay away from Reddit too.
Well said.


In the same way, I believe that all ideologies derived from redpill, blackpill, bluepill, etc., all stem from some kind of foundational source (like Stoicism), and then each one branches out into its own niche.




Stoicism does not cultivate passivity or emotional flatness in any way shape or form.
This is actually the part I’d personally like to know more about — stoic behavior.


You seem to be very knowledgeable.
 

BackInTheGame78

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Nothing is "wrong" with it per se. Like anything, taken to the extremes, you turn into a robot that doesn't think, just blindly follows principles
 

FlexpertHamilton

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Well said.


In the same way, I believe that all ideologies derived from redpill, blackpill, bluepill, etc., all stem from some kind of foundational source (like Stoicism), and then each one branches out into its own niche.






This is actually the part I’d personally like to know more about — stoic behavior.


You seem to be very knowledgeable.
To answer your question specifically, Stoicism does not involve any form of asceticism or rejection of "positive" things and experiences, though there are some parallels with Zen Buddhism in aiming to be unattached to any particular outcomes and attaining tranquility of mind (or equinamity in Zen). This doesn't mean being emotionless it just means living in accordance with your own nature. There are a lot of ways to elaborate on this and I'm too rusty to say much more, I need to go back and reread these books again.

Here are some quotes I've saved that might give you an idea.

Marcus Aurelius

"It never ceases to amaze me: we all love ourselves more than other people, but care more about their opinions than our own."

“Whether the universe is a concourse of atoms, or nature is a system, let this first be established, that I am part of the whole which is governed by nature; next, I am in a manner intimately related to the parts which are of the same kind with myself.”

"Remember how long you've been putting this off, how many extensions the gods gave you, and you didn't use them. At some point you have to recognize what world it is that you belong to; what power rules from it and what source you spring; that there is a limit to the time assigned you, and if you don't use it to free yourself it will be gone and never return" - Aurelius



Seneca

"What does it matter what others think of you? Let them see you as they will; it is what you know to be true that matters. Their opinions do not add or take away from the man you are. The cause of their judgments is their own misery, not any defect in you."

"Many outstrip you: reflect on the fact that more are behind you on the course than in front of you.

"Everyone is in the same predicament, both those who are tormented by inconstancy and boredom and an unending change of purpose, constantly taking more pleasure in what they have just abandoned, and those who idle away their time, yawning. Add to them those who twist and turn like insomniacs, trying all manner of positions until in their weariness they find repose: by altering the condition of their life repeatedly, they end up finally in the state that they are caught, not by dislike of change, but by old age that is reluctant to embrace anything new. Add also those who through the fault, not of determination but of idleness, are too constant in their ways, and live their lives not as they wish, but as they began. The sickness has countless characteristics but only one effect, dissatisfaction with oneself. This arises from a lack of mental balance and desires that are nervous or unfulfilled, when men’s daring or attainment falls short of their desires and they depend entirely on hope; such are always lacking in stability and changeable, the inevitable consequence of living in a state of suspense.
 

jhonny9546

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everything's evil is what is contrary to its own nature..
our statement that the nature of man is gentle, and affectionate, and faithful
 

FlexpertHamilton

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It's easy to be a stoic when you are Roman emperor or at the position of power, with money and success surrounding you.

For the most of men, stoic approach is something they never practice - not because they do not want to (at least some of them understand the concept) but because things happen and they lack necessary means to deal with them efficiently => hardships take over their stoic approach.
Epictetus was a slave and Rufus was banished to a barren island, and they were some of the closest known examples to Stoic Sages.
 
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