There used to be 5 active PUA/Seduction Forums! Now only 1 remains

[bat soup]

I think it's not just pickup forums but forums in general that seem to have died out. When the internet first started, forums were really popular and in fact I remember a lot of them were live chat forums with main chat rooms and then private chats.

In the past, I think the general perception was that you needed to go out to nightclubs and bars to get laid and the initial PUA stuff was focused on that environment. Now there is Tinder and a bunch of other similar apps, not that they work for most people.

 

[nicksaiz65]

I think it's not just pickup forums but forums in general that seem to have died out. When the internet first started, forums were really popular and in fact I remember a lot of them were live chat forums with main chat rooms and then private chats.

In the past, I think the general perception was that you needed to go out to nightclubs and bars to get laid and the initial PUA stuff was focused on that environment. Now there is Tinder and a bunch of other similar apps, not that they work for most people.

In general, I don't think approaching will ever die though. Most dudes just don't have the balls to do it.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

I think it's not just pickup forums but forums in general that seem to have died out. When the internet first started, forums were really popular and in fact I remember a lot of them were live chat forums with main chat rooms and then private chats.

In the past, I think the general perception was that you needed to go out to nightclubs and bars to get laid and the initial PUA stuff was focused on that environment. Now there is Tinder and a bunch of other similar apps, not that they work for most people.

Bingo! Don’t something like 40% of couples now meet via internet? And that’s almost entirely looks. So GamePUA is less relevant.

 

[MatureDJ]

I disagree. PUA is a subset of Redpill. I can google search the term, and even have on on this link here: https://incels.wiki/w/Redpill
You are free to come up with a link to the contrary. What I understand Red-pill is in contrast with Blue-pill as for the 00s decade you only had Red-pill vs Blue-pill to work with. Remember the 00s? You had AFC which contrasted with PUA/DJ. You can't re-define these basic ideas because the world around changed and other definitions were introduced.

PUA relies on Red Pill knowledge - one might say that PUA *exploits* Red Pill knowledge - but it is distinct. Trigonometry relies on Algebra, but they encompass different sets of material.

Blue-pill contrast sounds like the old school AFC who would supplicate to a woman, buy her flowers, take her out on various dates with the hope that she'll submit to you as a man. Also in that old school, emphasized of course getting a good education and job, being successful and in general following the rules, then you'll end up with a woman. Build and they shall come type of mentality.

Agreed.

The Red-pill would contrast when Blue-pillers get friendzoned or chucked because the woman is either bored or he's just in a fixed provider role. Allot of old concepts in the 00s decade could overlap with the current paradigm, but there was no term like "chucked', maybe AMOGed, etc... The terms beta and alpha were in that old vocabulary and the Red-pill identified alphas and betas, while the Blue-pill has no such thing. Blue-pill is the Disneyland princess, find your oneitis and live happily ever after, etc....

The allegory from "The Matrix" is the basis - the Blue Pill believes the canonical methods of getting into a woman's pants are most effective, while the Red Pill knows the Truth that this is no longer the case in our sick contemporary society.

So when you tell me holistic self-improvement is Red-pill, then it sounds Blue-pill with me. If you say techniques to manufacture interest in plates, that's clearly Red-pill since techniques which make you more socially fluid and calibrated is a type of confident self-improvement that's clearly in the Red-pill zone.

The holistic self-improvement is just building up one's core attractiveness. A man in good shape, well-read, and that has his sh!t together has a higher core value that is inherently more attractive - and this is common to both Pills, but the Blue Pill posits that a man can develop attractiveness by exherent attributes like spending money or otherwise supplicating behavior. Red Pill says that these exherent attributes are only "attractive" in that women will take advantage of such a man while keeping her true sexual interest in the inherently attractive man.

It just seems everything has gone full circle and the Blue-pill is being repackaged with an add on here and there to make it sound like it's DJ. But, how do you contrast the current paradigm with old Blue-pill? Do you think 20 years was simply wasted in nonsense and the Blue-pill was right all along?

Blue Pill will get a woman that looks at her Beta man as a wallet to be exhausted and back to be broken in toil, while her real sexual desire lies with the Alpha man with inherent attractiveness. Sure, the woman might be able to put up with sexually servicing her Beta man, but since she doesn't have an inherent desire for him, it will be easy for her to stop her servicing, hence "dead bedrooms".

I'm not sure that's how I read that on Incel-Tv channel. The incel would claim that non-incel Black pillers are coping or everything is a cope. Its a question as to whether non-Incel Black pill men, aka, MGTOW are really in denial and coping, or if Incel Black-pill are really losers (ie. is that what MGTOW is saying of incels?).

Incel TV is very Red Pill in that it shows how women act just as Red Pill dictates, but also that there is a certain standard of inherent attractiveness that a man needs to be successful - and that most men don't meet this standard, which is different than the Blue Pill canonics, which states that men & women pair off at the same level of the sexual attractiveness totem pole, and thus there is a woman for every man. Incel TV basically explains why it is "so OVER" for such men.

I personally don't see much of a difference between an escortcel, for example, and a MTGOW that's fed up with women but visits prostitutes? Which one of the two is the loser, and which on is in denial/coping?

There isn't really a difference - although the MGTOW John would say that he could achieve non-professional sex if he really, really put in the effort (including all the BS), but that that effort (i.e., the squeeze") is not worth it. The escortcel accepts the fact that even if he put in the effort, he would not get sex (i.e., sex with a woman of a certain level of attractiveness, since even most normies could probably get fat chicks). Perhaps another difference is that the MGTOW doesn't feel the need to have sex as much, and thus could "take it or leave it" whereas the escortcel feels the need.

 

[MatureDJ]

Bingo! Don’t something like 40% of couples now meet via internet? And that’s almost entirely looks. So GamePUA is less relevant.

Yes, we are moving into a dystopian future where women choose men to date like they choose sperm donors to get inseminated with.

 

[Epicenter]

Exactly. I feel like a lot of the other forums have been too monotone, it's communities of like-minded circlejerkers and if you don't agree you get pushed out. On this forum there's a bit too much variety to reach that state and that's a good thing. There are some things there's more or less consensus on, then there's the more controversial topics leading to massive threads discussing it and that's what gives this place life.

Yes it seems it is difficult to find the right balance. This forum keeps things lighthearted the advantage is that it is sustainable. You don't have to be the mad scientist like in the classic pua forum where you take women very serious like your life depends on it.

I thought the mgtow forum could make it work I guess the negative vibe add up and in the long run you feel bad.

It reminds me of the definition of game. In western countries game became connected to competitive sports. People took it too serious I guess. On the long run it is not sustainable it exhausts you and makes you one dimensional. That is why I am a fan of being interested in many things but not too much invested in things and hobbies so I make it not an identity out of it.

I think part of the problem is we have a negative bias. It's probably natural because evolutionary life was and maybe still is dangerous. The problem is what is life worth if you don't have fun? I would rather have a short life and fun life than vice versa.

Back to PUA game. This I think has to be taken much less serious to be able to have fun with it. In the past I was more serious with getting deep into the rabbit hole. Well I did that and there is not much more to discover or maybe I intested already so much. I feel like I earned and deserve to be happy now. I can retire from checking all the rabbit holes and make happiness a higher priority.

 

[Epicenter]

In general, I don't think approaching will ever die though. Most dudes just don't have the balls to do it.

I wouldn't call it balls I would call it is not worth it for some. Bad ROI.

 

[zekko]

People don't need pickup anymore, because of the proliferation of dating apps. That and social circle seems to be the way most people date these days.

If this is the only seduction forum left, I'm glad I picked this one to join.

 

[corrector]

PUA relies on Red Pill knowledge - one might say that PUA *exploits* Red Pill knowledge - but it is distinct. Trigonometry relies on Algebra, but they encompass different sets of material.

Now that you put it that way way. The PUA breaks down Red-Pill knowledge in such a way that on the surface it sounds gimmicky but it provides a structural framework on how you can express confidence. Allot of people do things that are scripted. Apart from Actors/Actresses, even Real-Estate coaches or someone making a presentation could be memorizing good scripts and delivering them in such a way it sounds like its coming from themselves. After all, its mainly the tone and body-language that people listen, and what you say is a smaller percentage. I would guess PUA frames and creates the right script and delivery if its done correctly.

It also had something called "Inner Game", which I guess sounds like the inherent value you are talking about, since it's often the missing ingredient to make everything work. If you do not believe that you have inherent attractiveness then you don't have "inner game" in order to make all of those routines work.

Is that how you would say PUA exploits Red Pill knowledge?

The allegory from "The Matrix" is the basis - the Blue Pill believes the canonical methods of getting into a woman's pants are most effective, while the Red Pill knows the Truth that this is no longer the case in our sick contemporary society.

Most people seem to think that society has changed drastically since the 00 decade. The Matrix movie and those analogies were born on that decade. When you say contemporary society, do you mean post sexual revolution (i.e. late-sixties), or do you mean the 00 decade, or the late 10s decade to now?

The holistic self-improvement is just building up one's core attractiveness. A man in good shape, well-read, and that has his sh!t together has a higher core value that is inherently more attractive - and this is common to both Pills, but the Blue Pill posits that a man can develop attractiveness by exherent attributes like spending money or otherwise supplicating behavior. Red Pill says that these exherent attributes are only "attractive" in that women will take advantage of such a man while keeping her true sexual interest in the inherently attractive man.

When you apply Christian principles, then everything sounds Blue-pill times 10. In a Christian marriage, the man is supposed to provide for the woman. In fact, the Bible says that if a man does not provide for his wife then he is worst than an infidel, and this is one of the only passages I've seen that word in the text. (1 Tim 5:8). A husband is to love their wife like Christ loved the church. (Eph 5:25). So it seems to me that the Bible supports a Blue-pill mindset towards providing for your wife. Do you think the Bible or Christianity is the main driving force of blue-pill thought or is the blue-pill something else entirely?

Blue Pill will get a woman that looks at her Beta man as a wallet to be exhausted and back to be broken in toil, while her real sexual desire lies with the Alpha man with inherent attractiveness. Sure, the woman might be able to put up with sexually servicing her Beta man, but since she doesn't have an inherent desire for him, it will be easy for her to stop her servicing, hence "dead bedrooms".

This is why the disciples of Jesus said that it is good if nobody marries. Matt 19:10. So maybe Jesus' disciples started with MGTOW, or at least the genesis of this idea, when they saw marriage was a bad deal since divorce is not really possible. The cost is too high for it to be worth it according to them.

Incel TV is very Red Pill in that it shows how women act just as Red Pill dictates, but also that there is a certain standard of inherent attractiveness that a man needs to be successful - and that most men don't meet this standard, which is different than the Blue Pill canonics, which states that men & women pair off at the same level of the sexual attractiveness totem pole, and thus there is a woman for every man. Incel TV basically explains why it is "so OVER" for such men.

Incel TV describes itself as Blackpill rather than Redpill.

There isn't really a difference - although the MGTOW John would say that he could achieve non-professional sex if he really, really put in the effort (including all the BS), but that that effort (i.e., the squeeze") is not worth it. The escortcel accepts the fact that even if he put in the effort, he would not get sex (i.e., sex with a woman of a certain level of attractiveness, since even most normies could probably get fat chicks). Perhaps another difference is that the MGTOW doesn't feel the need to have sex as much, and thus could "take it or leave it" whereas the escortcel feels the need.

It sounds like you feel that most escortcels are really normies who don't like fat woman and want a hot 7+ woman but they are out of their league and there is simply nothing they can do about it, while MGTOWS are able to get a hot enough woman but simply don't want to.
So, someone who settles with someone they are not attracted to but is unpaid vs someone paying for someone they are satisfied with, which arrangement of the two is worst off in your opinion?

 

[SW15]

People don't need pickup anymore, because of the proliferation of dating apps. That and social circle seems to be the way most people date these days.

You're half right. In newer relationships, dating apps have displaced other forms of meeting.

A prior study from the same research as the link above showed how social circle meetings dimished between relationships formed in the late 1980s and 2010. His 2017 study (first link) showed the continued erosion and displacement of social circles.

I would argue that relationships formed through social circles would last longer due to social pressure, but lasting longer isn't necessarily an indicator of goodness. A lot of those long lasting romantic relationships are soul killing, boring relationships surviving on inertia. Often times, one or both parties is having an affair.

 

[Epicenter]

I think another perspective to the history of pua is that in the year around 2000 Internet became available for many people. In these times people could finally get knowledge from the internet. One knew that in society people always tell lies but you could not call them out on it because you were alone and you didn't have the fundamental knowledge.

It may have been like the situation with Galileo or Darwin. Finally you could figure out how society works. Of course guys wanted to use that knowledge to get girls and that is why pua bacame so big.

I think nowadays the pua knowledge is already integrated in the culture. There is this left wing guy called Vaush he uses pua terms and even right wing memes for his ideology. His background is the gamer community he learned his debating skills from a guy called Destiny. These guys have massive followers. Indirectly because they train communication in their dabates they improve even pua knowledge it seems.

Gamer nerds were the prime group for pua back in the time I guess. So it didn't change much in that regard but they train there skills digitally it seems.

Bottom line the pua knowledge is integrated in the youtube or twitch communities. Though I could be wrong

 

[Epicenter]

Pua seems to be a specified communication skill like being a sales person. In western societies people specialize and then there is not much need for high level pua guys. For most people it is just not worth it to sacrifice so much energy for it.

In places like Latinamerica pua is part of the culture I guess. So they have it automatically.

One good thing wiht pua is that it can get used for normal communication as well. I think it is also very important for men to be able to communicate with other men. This is harder than it seems actually.

Most men are hard to talk because they are often more boring then even women

So if you are good with communication you can lead other person to a role where they can feel valuable. It's like being the guy who organizes the games in a casual streetball game. If you are good with making teams you get the role. Guys are thankful for it and you have also fun because things work out. It's a win win.

I guess this also is possible with women too.

Another thing about pua I did find interesting is n one language pua's are called actors. There is some truth to it. Everybody loves actors. They can tell a story. There is not many things people like to do than listen to good stories. This is done more digitally but still it's the same at it's core.


Here a wiki link for the interested ones about pua:

Pickup artist - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

 

[Good Gao]

Goodlooking Loser Forum = The Best.

 

[Epicenter]

Goodlooking Loser Forum = The Best.

They seem like they are on drugs and very needy. I guess a lot of young psychedelic guys there. I get irritated by that forum. Though they have a lot of data.

 

[Serenity]

Yes it seems it is difficult to find the right balance. This forum keeps things lighthearted the advantage is that it is sustainable. You don't have to be the mad scientist like in the classic pua forum where you take women very serious like your life depends on it.

I thought the mgtow forum could make it work I guess the negative vibe add up and in the long run you feel bad.

It reminds me of the definition of game. In western countries game became connected to competitive sports. People took it too serious I guess. On the long run it is not sustainable it exhausts you and makes you one dimensional. That is why I am a fan of being interested in many things but not too much invested in things and hobbies so I make it not an identity out of it.

I think part of the problem is we have a negative bias. It's probably natural because evolutionary life was and maybe still is dangerous. The problem is what is life worth if you don't have fun? I would rather have a short life and fun life than vice versa.

Back to PUA game. This I think has to be taken much less serious to be able to have fun with it. In the past I was more serious with getting deep into the rabbit hole. Well I did that and there is not much more to discover or maybe I intested already so much. I feel like I earned and deserve to be happy now. I can retire from checking all the rabbit holes and make happiness a higher priority.

Oh yes, I absolutely agree! I had my phase where I went in deep trying to get this part of my life sorted. I went from clueless and unsuccessful to learning about this upon discovering it, that took time and during that time it was on my mind most of the time every single day.

I took it to the breaking point, that was when I realized it was unsustainable and realized what I was truly seeking. Women were just a small piece of a much larger puzzle, I was initially seeking women just as an extension of seeking happiness or at least the absence of unhappiness. The moment I realized that, all the pieces fell into place.

It had to be taken less seriously, it had to literally be taken as a game, not like my life depended on it. All the pressure I had felt just lifted, I genuinely didn't give a flying fvck about other people's expectations regarding my life anymore. All I wanted was to feel good, taking the fastest healthy (no drugs or shortcuts like that) route to achieve that goal. Women came behind my own satisfaction with my life and I didn't need women to feel satisfied.

Many guys attracted to this topic comes from dark places, so did I. We think sorting the women situation will make it go away, but that darkness is the reason for our lack of success in that department to begin with. We need to address the root of the problem and it likely has nothing at all to do with women. This is where PUA game falls flat, it treats the symptoms, not the causes. We might get to bang a hot chick here and there, but failure will just take another form until we learn about the root of our issues.

There's not much that needs to be known about the practical side of handling women, if the foundation of our belief system is good then the house will more or less build itself. I find it easy, but I still haven't forgotten the hopeless view of a guy who finds it hard or the journey in between. The point of this forum is to assist on the journey, but ultimately we all have to walk it ourselves.

Side note: The death of all these forums may also in part be because the internet has reached saturation of typical searchable problems regarding this topic. There may be easily searchable threads and articles scattered across the internet that adequately answers most if not all questions a guy who's unsuccessful may have. This makes it unnecessary to create a thread about it or everyone on a forum gets annoyed saying "this has been asked a billion times before". Why write and wait for answers or be roasted when you can immediately get all the common responses from a Google search?

 

[Spaz]

We always know who are the nerds around here, they r the ones who knows all the forums, all the related books and all the data.

But somehow can't get laid....

 

[Epicenter]

Oh yes, I absolutely agree! I had my phase where I went in deep trying to get this part of my life sorted. I went from clueless and unsuccessful to learning about this upon discovering it, that took time and during that time it was on my mind most of the time every single day.

I took it to the breaking point, that was when I realized it was unsustainable and realized what I was truly seeking. Women were just a small piece of a much larger puzzle, I was initially seeking women just as an extension of seeking happiness or at least the absence of unhappiness. The moment I realized that, all the pieces fell into place.

It had to be taken less seriously, it had to literally be taken as a game, not like my life depended on it. All the pressure I had felt just lifted, I genuinely didn't give a flying fvck about other people's expectations regarding my life anymore. All I wanted was to feel good, taking the fastest healthy (no drugs or shortcuts like that) route to achieve that goal. Women came behind my own satisfaction with my life and I didn't need women to feel satisfied.

Many guys attracted to this topic comes from dark places, so did I. We think sorting the women situation will make it go away, but that darkness is the reason for our lack of success in that department to begin with. We need to address the root of the problem and it likely has nothing at all to do with women. This is where PUA game falls flat, it treats the symptoms, not the causes. We might get to bang a hot chick here and there, but failure will just take another form until we learn about the root of our issues.

There's not much that needs to be known about the practical side of handling women, if the foundation of our belief system is good then the house will more or less build itself. I find it easy, but I still haven't forgotten the hopeless view of a guy who finds it hard or the journey in between. The point of this forum is to assist on the journey, but ultimately we all have to walk it ourselves.

Side note: The death of all these forums may also in part be because the internet has reached saturation of typical searchable problems regarding this topic. There may be easily searchable threads and articles scattered across the internet that adequately answers most if not all questions a guy who's unsuccessful may have. This makes it unnecessary to create a thread about it or everyone on a forum gets annoyed saying "this has been asked a billion times before". Why write and wait for answers or be roasted when you can immediately get all the common responses from a Google search?

Very well said

 

[Epicenter]

We always know who are the nerds around here, they r the ones who knows all the forums, all the related books and all the data.

But somehow can't get laid....

Another day in the office for Spaz:

 

[Epicenter]

We always know who are the nerds around here, they r the ones who knows all the forums, all the related books and all the data.

But somehow can't get laid....

Here in Ph it is difficult not to get laid

 

[Spaz]

Here in Ph it is difficult not to get laid

In PH, even an idiot can get laid, all one needs is money.

Nothing special at all...