The reason dating apps don't work for most men

[viking22]

Came across this argument on twitter the other day.

Human attraction (specifically for women) requires repeat exposure with low stakes. That used to happen when people met the old fashioned way through college, workplaces, social circles etc. Dating apps do the opposite: meet once, on romantic terms, and decide immediately if it ever happens again.

I think there is some truth to this.

Instant chemistry does happen for women but only with a small minority of guys (the ones getting most of the matches). That is why most regular guys rarely get strong IOIs in public and experience very low match rates on the apps even when they swipe right on basically every halfway decent girl.

Women also have so many options they do not have the opportunity to give guys a chance. So filtering by instant chemistry is efficient for them as well. As is rejecting guys for bizarre reasons (the so called "ick"). Most guys do not get past the first date as a result.

Obviously even in a slow burn scenario she has to find you attractive to some degree. But the threshold is set a lot lower and in classic chick logic she becomes more physically attracted to you the more she likes you. And there have actually been some psychological studies on this e.g. mere exposure effect whereby repeated exposures build familiarity, trust, comfort and often liking.

I am not sure I completely buy the "sapiosexual" and "demisexual" labels. However there is clearly some variability in the importance women place on looks but of course if looks are the only variable they have to go on then even these women will still have to filter by looks and only swipe right on the most attractive guys. Although you can sometimes hook a girl if you can arouse her curiosity or challenge her.

Guys are obviously very visual but I can think of scenarios where a cute girl I wouldn't look at twice on the street has grown on me because of her charm, personality and because we got each other.

For this reason a lot of regular guys do well with things like co-ed sports, running groups, Crossfit, social dancing etc. Also most of the male friends I have who are married met their wife at school/college and in many cases the woman is of equivalent or higher attractiveness. Most guys on dating apps have to date down and for the most part that has been my experience. That isn't so bad if you just want to sleep with as many women as possible and that happens a lot quicker when there is instant chemistry and even a regular looking guy will be "hot" to a small minority of women. But for relationships I'm not convinced dating apps are the way to go if you want someone of equivalent attractiveness that you'll be happy with long term.

And dating apps in a well meaning attempt to respond to user complaints of endless conversations, ghosting etc are introducing even higher pressure models e.g. limiting messaging before a date, time limited matches, forcing you to commit to a date once matched etc.

I got back from Rome and over there social circle is still the predominant way people meet and there were a lot more couples and a lot more were looks-matched. People seemed happier as well.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Why most men are bad on dating apps come down to the following IMO:

1. They focus on one woman and spend way too much time only messaging her
2. They wait way to long to ask her on a date. This creates a much greater window of "worthless" activity between initially messaging and meeting that gives her a ton of time to meet/talk with guys she may be more interested in.
3. Most men on OLD are some combination of desperate/needy/lame/boring/not in shape/not financially stable/not ambitious/weirdos/socially inept. That's your competition. I've often said that simply being "normal" these days on OLD will get you laid at a rate you wouldn't believe.
4. Most men don't realize it's a numbers game and you have to cast your line in the water a lot of times and keep casting it over and over again, even as you start meeting women off there and sleeping with them. The goal is to build a pipeline that has women at all different stages of it so as they move from stage to stage, your pipeline is like an assembly line moving from first message to date/fvck.
5. Most men get discouraged if they get ghosted/flaked on/date doesn't go well/date goes well but she isn't interested, etc. Why? Because they spent way too much time and energy on this one woman and now they are invested in the outcome trying to get a "return" on their investment. This is why you invest very little between first message and first date and it should happen quickly. It also frees up the pipeline by giving a definitive status to a woman.

Essentially the bottom line is, most men are bad at OLD because they don't treat it like an assembly line where there are a constant flow of new items coming in at the beginning and then people at all stages of the converyor belt getting rid of the bad ones before they reach the end. They are essentially trying to go thr "handmade" route and when it drops on the floor and shattered after they spent a month working on it, they are devastated.

Meanwhile the man operating the conveyor belt doesn't have time to worry because he has to be ready for the next item coming in.

 

[Barrister]

The main problem is a great looking dude with high SMV is going to bat at 1-2 levels below his SMV on it to get good results. And even average women have literally endless options - with men who would never consider them dateable IRL. It creates not only a horribly unbalanced experience but also breeds horrible expectations and entitlement in the women on these apps.

 

[viking22]

Yeah my experience with the dating apps is good for quantity bad for quality.

 

[Gamisch]

Dating apps could and should be a perfect way to meet people ,but like anything, they rather squeeze us for every penny we got.

Its still unclear how the algorithms operate, and whether you do or dont get shadow banned for "power swiping".

At this point the only function is has is to somewhat sprinkle in a occasional date here and there. Crazy how the internet is the most important thing in our life and yet dating via internet is impossible due to corporate greed.

 

[Sega Genesis]

I think @viking22 made excellent points and he seems to have a good understanding of women's attraction and the dating scene in general.

I can only speak for myself but the reason I dislike dating apps and not on them anymore is because the entire dynamic and purpose of being on the apps - to "connect" and "click" - adds a certain pressure and that pressure in and of itself detracts from doing just that - connecting!

It's a mental thing (the brain) as much as a physical thing (look/appearance).

There is a popular saying:

>>The brain is the largest/most powerful sex organ.<<

Meet that same person you met on the app (but didn't click with) spontaneously at a party, an event, out and about on a Saturday afternoon where there was NO pressure to connect and click, and you may have actually clicked!

With the apps, you both know why you're there, as such there is NO wondering, no mystery, no uncertainty, all of which are part of attraction and seduction IME.

YAWN.

It's unnatural, too forced, too pressured.

Leave the house and interact with people. Women. NOT to pick up or make a connection necessarily again too pressured, too forced and women can sense that and it's a turn off.

Learn to be comfortable in your own skin and how to be natural . Forget canned pickup lines, and learn how to communicate naturally and spontaneously.

Simply let things happen as they're meant to, again naturally and spontaneously.

For me, those are the best connections and in turn make for the best relationships.

$.02

 

[RangerMIke]

Anytime you put a 'middle man' between an interaction you create a new set of problems because the purpose of the 'middle man' is different than the two parties in a transaction. Put in commercial terms:

The Seller: They want to sell their product at a profit.
The Buyer: Has a need that needs to be filled.
The Middle Man: They want to make money in the transaction.

The middle man doesn't care about the quality of the product, they don't care about the margins the seller operates under, the don't care about the needs of the buyer, their margins... ALL the middleman cares about is making money in the transaction.

To put this in context with dating apps.... the dating app doesn't care if people make meaningful connections. So what makes anyone think they will get what they want through a dating app?

 

[Rainman4707]

I got back from Rome and over there social circle is still the predominant way people meet and there were a lot more couples and a lot more were looks-matched. People seemed happier as well.

Thats why the greatest seducer who ever lived hated the English -

1. He found them cold and reserved
Casanova thrived on charm, flirting, and quick emotional connections. In England, he felt people were more distant and less expressive—especially compared to Italians and French. To him, that came off as dull or even rude.
2. Attitudes toward sex and romance were different
He was used to a more open, playful culture of seduction. In England, he found relationships more transactional or restrained. He even complained that English women were less passionate (his words, not necessarily reality

 

[Manure Spherian]

The key is to lock socializing down at 14 to 22 years old.

Though I didn’t use apps, I used AOL chatrooms, MySpace, and dating sites, like a conveyor belt.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

Why most men are bad on dating apps come down to the following IMO:

1. They focus on one woman and spend way too much time only messaging her
2. They wait way to long to ask her on a date. This creates a much greater window of "worthless" activity between initially messaging and meeting that gives her a ton of time to meet/talk with guys she may be more interested in.
3. Most men on OLD are some combination of desperate/needy/lame/boring/not in shape/not financially stable/not ambitious/weirdos/socially inept. That's your competition. I've often said that simply being "normal" these days on OLD will get you laid at a rate you wouldn't believe.
4. Most men don't realize it's a numbers game and you have to cast your line in the water a lot of times and keep casting it over and over again, even as you start meeting women off there and sleeping with them. The goal is to build a pipeline that has women at all different stages of it so as they move from stage to stage, your pipeline is like an assembly line moving from first message to date/fvck.
5. Most men get discouraged if they get ghosted/flaked on/date doesn't go well/date goes well but she isn't interested, etc. Why? Because they spent way too much time and energy on this one woman and now they are invested in the outcome trying to get a "return" on their investment. This is why you invest very little between first message and first date and it should happen quickly. It also frees up the pipeline by giving a definitive status to a woman.

Essentially the bottom line is, most men are bad at OLD because they don't treat it like an assembly line where there are a constant flow of new items coming in at the beginning and then people at all stages of the converyor belt getting rid of the bad ones before they reach the end. They are essentially trying to go thr "handmade" route and when it drops on the floor and shattered after they spent a month working on it, they are devastated.

Meanwhile the man operating the conveyor belt doesn't have time to worry because he has to be ready for the next item coming in.

the other problem i think is bad photos. men act like they're too cool to take good photos but it's absolutely essential to stand out. selfies and photos holding a fish ain't gonna cut it.

 

[viking22]

Yeah agree with that. Women massively catfish on the apps because as well as make up/flattering clothing they are very adept with filters, lighting, camera angles, etc. They also spend a huge percentage of their time when they go out taking photos/getting their friends to take photos and so they can easily get themselves looking at least 2-3 points hotter on the apps.

Men will just post bad selfies or holiday photos that are honest and likely unflattering. Being photogenic or learning to be photogenic is a must.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Yeah agree with that. Women massively catfish on the apps because as well as make up/flattering clothing they are very adept with filters, lighting, camera angles, etc. They also spend a huge percentage of their time when they go out taking photos/getting their friends to take photos and so they can easily get themselves looking at least 2-3 points hotter on the apps.

Men will just post bad selfies or holiday photos that are honest and likely unflattering. Being photogenic or learning to be photogenic is a must.

Usually very easy to tell. Anytime you see a pic at an overhead looking down angle, should auto swipe left. They are going to be a big 'un.

 

[Cheeky_James]

Dating apps are a sh1t show.
I think why most guys fail is that they try to “connect” . period.

idk. Sounds crazy but …maybe the whole bio/profile thing is just a giant ‘sh1t test’?

Ime, it seems if i chat about her bio stuff = i fail the test.
Why? Cos it’s boring/ I’m pandering/ DLVing / it’s the same strategy as all the other guys/ it comes off as fake and ***** begging = I fail

What if … the ch1ck on the other side just wants to be …taken?

They just want …action. to be led..
To be ..bossed around a bit, told where to go and to dress hot. Or else be turned on with sexting.

I like Brent Smiths maxim
“the more you tell them the more you repel them”.
It seems to be true tbh.

it’s either very bold assertive moves (including sexting), or totally messing with them/ stringing them along is what works on apps.

Not connecting on their interests etc.

the whole thing is a fantasy.
my 2c these days after mucho use.

 

[viking22]

That is the other problem with the apps these days. Any sexual language can be flagged by their AI tools and get you banned for life. If you tease a girl and she's overly sensitive she can report you and get you banned for life. Hell there are stories of people getting banned for taking too long to reply or ghosting girls after a date. You can also get banned for reports alleging inappropriate off-platform behaviour and women can be malicious and report you just because you pissed her off or rejected her. So you need to be very careful. And of course being very careful not to risk causing any kind of offence or tension makes it an awful lot harder to build attraction.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Dating apps are a sh1t show.
I think why most guys fail is that they try to “connect” . period.

idk. Sounds crazy but …maybe the whole bio/profile thing is just a giant ‘sh1t test’?

Ime, it seems if i chat about her bio stuff = i fail the test.
Why? Cos it’s boring/ I’m pandering/ DLVing / it’s the same strategy as all the other guys/ it comes off as fake and ***** begging = I fail

What if … the ch1ck on the other side just wants to be …taken?

They just want …action. to be led..
To be ..bossed around a bit, told where to go and to dress hot. Or else be turned on with sexting.

I like Brent Smiths maxim
“the more you tell them the more you repel them”.
It seems to be true tbh.

it’s either very bold assertive moves (including sexting), or totally messing with them/ stringing them along is what works on apps.

Not connecting on their interests etc.

the whole thing is a fantasy.
my 2c these days after mucho use.

I find there's a sweet spot if you connect with them (their intertests, background stuff etc) just enough they are more likely to let down their defenses.

 

[Cheeky_James]

I find there's a sweet spot if you connect with them (their intertests, background stuff etc) just enough they are more likely to let down their defenses.

hmmm. That sounds good.. in theory.
But if chicks are hypergamous as they say… and they want to date ‘up’.
Then using logic and rationale it would be best to come off as…’superior ‘ in the chat then no?
Make that impression off the bat.

Above them, looking down.
Bold statements. strong lead , put em under pressure, make em sweat, be challenging, make big demands , be grandiose ,.. be a selfish, demanding b@stard basically… something like that. Idk.

there’s something in the above that translates as challenge = compliance. But I can’t articulate it properly tbh.

??? Kinda makes sense to me tho.
then after that, connect sure , but do that in person.

chicks know guys will fake a connection to get into their pants is the problem with the connection route. And they all report they are sick of the same old chats and same old questions to do so… idk.

Trying to connect via chats .. is boring to them it seems. Ties in to what SG said above.. it’s a yawn fest their side.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

hmmm. That sounds good.. in theory.
But if chicks are hypergamous as they say… and they want to date ‘up’.
Then using logic and rationale it would be best to come off as…’superior ‘ in the chat then no?
Make that impression off the bat.

Above them, looking down.
Bold statements. strong lead , put em under pressure, make em sweat, be challenging, make big demands , be grandiose ,.. be a selfish, demanding b@stard basically… something like that. Idk.

there’s something in the above that translates as challenge = compliance. But I can’t articulate it properly tbh.

??? Kinda makes sense to me tho.
then after that, connect sure , but do that in person.

chicks know guys will fake a connection to get into their pants is the problem with the connection route. And they all report they are sick of the same old chats and same old questions to do so… idk.

Trying to connect via chats .. is boring to them it seems. Ties in to what SG said above.. it’s a yawn fest their side.

Be unique and interesting in the pre-meet chat and connect with them more in-person.

Chicks who are "sick of the same old chats" tend to be women who have buyer's remorse for putting out for non-Chads and/or not getting commitment from the Chads they do put out for. Thus, everyone else owes them free drinks and attention, and any kind of connection makes it harder for them to dip and ghost if you're not the non-existent "Mr. Perfect", so they will be having none of that.

You want to avoid the chicks who want to talk endlessly without meeting, but on the other end of the spectrum you want to avoid the women who want to meet right away without much chatting as well, as they don't allow themselves to be high-interest. Why go on a date where they require an A+ performance to avoid them ghosting you when you can find a high-interest, non-jaded chick who only requires a B?

SG is on permanent ignore. I only endure sophistry and solipsism from chicks I want to bang lol.

 

[Sega Genesis]

Trying to connect via chats .. is boring to them it seems. Ties in to what SG said above.. it’s a yawn fest their side.

^^That's not actually what I wrote CJ. I've actually made some great connections online (chatting). When it's spontaneous and natural. NOT on dating apps.

I wrote that with dating apps specifically, you both know why you're there right off the bat; there is no mystery, no wondering, no uncertainty. It adds a certain pressure which detracts from connecting. For me.

It feels unnatural, like I'm advertising myself or something. I have friends who feel the same.

Unlike when you meet spontaneously in real life, you don't know a damn thing about each other. There is no profile to read, no IG to peruse, no carefully choreographed photos to sort through etc.

When you meet spontaneously in real life, totally unplanned, there is a lot of filling in the blanks at least at first, which can be exciting and fun! Assuming I find him attractive.

Again that wondering. The tension. The vibe, the energy. And slowly discovering.. That's what seduction and connection are about or a big part of it. For me..

If there was a way to take away the pressure from online dating apps and make the process more spontaneous and natural like in real life, I'd feel more positive about them.

Hope that explains. Again just me. I know they work for many people.