Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

The Final Word on Looks

Atom Smasher

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
8,075
Reaction score
4,787
Age
63
Location
The 7th Dimension
“Do looks matter?”

Ahh... the age-old question that every man wonders about.

I believe I have developed an understanding of why this debate rages on, and why the two sides are poles apart.

I have come to realize that women can immediately tell if any given man has maxed out his looks, and if he has, he is considered attractive enough so that looks are no longer a concern.

As an example, take a man we would consider a “6”. If a woman sees that he has maxed out what God has given him, he’s just as acceptable looks-wise to her as a non maxed-out “8” is. While we men rate looks using a pretty much universal 1-10 scale, women rate men not on a universal scale, but rather on an individual scale.

While our scale is objective, women’s scales are subjective. If you are a man who has made himself look as good as he can with what God gave him, then you have that area covered and women will give you every chance to see if you can make them FEEL attraction. Looks are no longer a barrier.

If you are a “5” and a woman sees that you are dumpy and don’t respect yourself by presenting yourself well, you will be repulsive to her. If, on the other hand, you are naturally a “5” but you present yourself well (clothing, body language, fitness, SHOES), the barrier of entry vanished and she will be open to you. At that point it’s all about whether or not you can make her feel that attraction through your verbal skills.

If you think of yourself as a lowly 3, 4, 5, or 6, and consider yourself out of the running because of your looks, you can reverse that by presenting the best “you” to the world. Never forget that a woman will give such men a chance if they see that he pays attention to how he presents himself. They judge not so much on innate, objective looks, as much as they do on what a man does with what he has.

Of course there are plenty of women who will judge on an objective, Hollywood-inspired scale, but there are plenty more who judge based on an individual’s presentation of his natural self.
 

BackInTheGame78

Moderator
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
2,978
Reaction score
2,966
Research has constantly shown the same thing over and over.

The less a woman has spent time interacting with you and getting to know you, the more looks matter since that is really all she knows about you at that point.

This is why guys who are not great looking can end up with hot chicks...because they might be in the same social circle and they have gotten to know them and become comfortable with them and they find other things attractive about them.
 

Medina

Master Don Juan
Joined
Mar 23, 2019
Messages
837
Reaction score
1,458
Tall, dark & handsome

Women have been saying it for 100 years bro

Or perhaps men have just chosen not to listen.. which is also a good move. However, a good looking man is still accepted by default, by women. The rest of society has to offer more
 

Bigpapa

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Nov 17, 2020
Messages
496
Reaction score
404
Age
121
“Do looks matter?”

Ahh... the age-old question that every man wonders about.

I believe I have developed an understanding of why this debate rages on, and why the two sides are poles apart.

I have come to realize that women can immediately tell if any given man has maxed out his looks, and if he has, he is considered attractive enough so that looks are no longer a concern.

As an example, take a man we would consider a “6”. If a woman sees that he has maxed out what God has given him, he’s just as acceptable looks-wise to her as a non maxed-out “8” is. While we men rate looks using a pretty much universal 1-10 scale, women rate men not on a universal scale, but rather on an individual scale.

While our scale is objective, women’s scales are subjective. If you are a man who has made himself look as good as he can with what God gave him, then you have that area covered and women will give you every chance to see if you can make them FEEL attraction. Looks are no longer a barrier.

If you are a “5” and a woman sees that you are dumpy and don’t respect yourself by presenting yourself well, you will be repulsive to her. If, on the other hand, you are naturally a “5” but you present yourself well (clothing, body language, fitness, SHOES), the barrier of entry vanished and she will be open to you. At that point it’s all about whether or not you can make her feel that attraction through your verbal skills.

If you think of yourself as a lowly 3, 4, 5, or 6, and consider yourself out of the running because of your looks, you can reverse that by presenting the best “you” to the world. Never forget that a woman will give such men a chance if they see that he pays attention to how he presents himself. They judge not so much on innate, objective looks, as much as they do on what a man does with what he has.

Of course there are plenty of women who will judge on an objective, Hollywood-inspired scale, but there are plenty more who judge based on an individual’s presentation of his natural self.
the better looking you are , the more women will close their eyes to the mistakes you make in the courtship period :)

if you are not an attractive guy by default , you either have really good game , else you masturbate

it is as simple as that
 

image

"If you love women, you must read the SoSuave Guide to Women. It's fantastic!"

DEEZEDBRAH

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 24, 2017
Messages
4,273
Reaction score
3,203
Age
30
If rsd Tyler is any indication of anything, get the bag, put in your work, and stay on the grind. Obv looks matter but not taking action is low T. Take your shot. Always.

Finally, become so high value, you can approach but you don't need to anymore unless you choose to do so.
 

zekko

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 6, 2009
Messages
14,105
Reaction score
6,341
I have come to realize that women can immediately tell if any given man has maxed out his looks, and if he has, he is considered attractive enough so that looks are no longer a concern.
I'm not sure I agree with this theory, but I suppose it's a variation on the "be clean, be well groomed" concept. If a guy is walking around with B.O. because he can't bother to shower obviously that's going to cost him some points. If you are clean and groomed, she may not be attracted to you, but will likely accept you as a decent person to be around.

There's also the question as to what looks maxing is, how far do you take it? For instance, I have gray hair. I suppose some would argue that I should dye my hair to looks max. But oddly, if you do this some women will hold it against you, because they don't think guys should dye their hair. Those women see it as a feminine thing, and that men should not be so wound up in how they look. Some might even think it implies insecurity. So what a woman considers looks maxing is probably a very individual thing.
 
Last edited:

Poonani Maker

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
4,431
Reaction score
906
Currently have one tonight 16 years my younger in pursuit of me since a month after COVID started, give me a meaningful gift. It was really sweet and I told her that since day one she's been there for me, which is 'odd.' I told her that I've given her no reason to be the way she is to me (and she subtly agreed). Some women just Know you are their Type. She's the same kinda woman who wanted me back in grade/junior high/high school. She's just that 'type' that's always Pursued me (like summon other people and your own 'guy' peers to call her or what do you think about her? etc).

Sure, it's 'looks,' but also she see a ticket out of her mom's home and out of financial 'stress.'

But she's not the Only one. There's another this morning (and yesterday so 2 consecutive days) getting close to me and today introducing herself to me. I do not like tattoo writing across women's chests (around the collar bone). She's probably only 10-12 years my younger, and she 'could' have a kid. So she's targeting me as well...for a ticket, but with the bonus of being 'looking good,' what they may deem a falling-through-the-cracks diamond-in-the-ruff, like 'how?' they may say is he not 'taken?'

This COVID and financial stress in these here holidays is giving me witness to a drastic behavioral change than from the past several boomin' all-is-well years. I'm noticing a difference as of Tonight (today). Of course, I'm feelin' good or feelin' loved or in higher spirits, an uplift. It could be the Christmas spirit or just goodwill or female attention (because They are hurtin'). A lot of uncertainty 'cvming in the air tonight' - Phil Collins

It's sad, these times. These are revolutionary or civil war-like fall-of-Rome-like times. Suffering is being felt. Worry on faces, sadness.
 

Hamurabimbi

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
308
Reaction score
201
Location
California
“Do looks matter?”

Ahh... the age-old question that every man wonders about.

I believe I have developed an understanding of why this debate rages on, and why the two sides are poles apart.

I have come to realize that women can immediately tell if any given man has maxed out his looks, and if he has, he is considered attractive enough so that looks are no longer a concern.

As an example, take a man we would consider a “6”. If a woman sees that he has maxed out what God has given him, he’s just as acceptable looks-wise to her as a non maxed-out “8” is. While we men rate looks using a pretty much universal 1-10 scale, women rate men not on a universal scale, but rather on an individual scale.

While our scale is objective, women’s scales are subjective. If you are a man who has made himself look as good as he can with what God gave him, then you have that area covered and women will give you every chance to see if you can make them FEEL attraction. Looks are no longer a barrier.

If you are a “5” and a woman sees that you are dumpy and don’t respect yourself by presenting yourself well, you will be repulsive to her. If, on the other hand, you are naturally a “5” but you present yourself well (clothing, body language, fitness, SHOES), the barrier of entry vanished and she will be open to you. At that point it’s all about whether or not you can make her feel that attraction through your verbal skills.

If you think of yourself as a lowly 3, 4, 5, or 6, and consider yourself out of the running because of your looks, you can reverse that by presenting the best “you” to the world. Never forget that a woman will give such men a chance if they see that he pays attention to how he presents himself. They judge not so much on innate, objective looks, as much as they do on what a man does with what he has.

Of course there are plenty of women who will judge on an objective, Hollywood-inspired scale, but there are plenty more who judge based on an individual’s presentation of his natural self.
“Do looks matter?”

Ahh... the age-old question that every man wonders about.

I believe I have developed an understanding of why this debate rages on, and why the two sides are poles apart.

I have come to realize that women can immediately tell if any given man has maxed out his looks, and if he has, he is considered attractive enough so that looks are no longer a concern.

As an example, take a man we would consider a “6”. If a woman sees that he has maxed out what God has given him, he’s just as acceptable looks-wise to her as a non maxed-out “8” is. While we men rate looks using a pretty much universal 1-10 scale, women rate men not on a universal scale, but rather on an individual scale.

While our scale is objective, women’s scales are subjective. If you are a man who has made himself look as good as he can with what God gave him, then you have that area covered and women will give you every chance to see if you can make them FEEL attraction. Looks are no longer a barrier.

If you are a “5” and a woman sees that you are dumpy and don’t respect yourself by presenting yourself well, you will be repulsive to her. If, on the other hand, you are naturally a “5” but you present yourself well (clothing, body language, fitness, SHOES), the barrier of entry vanished and she will be open to you. At that point it’s all about whether or not you can make her feel that attraction through your verbal skills.

If you think of yourself as a lowly 3, 4, 5, or 6, and consider yourself out of the running because of your looks, you can reverse that by presenting the best “you” to the world. Never forget that a woman will give such men a chance if they see that he pays attention to how he presents himself. They judge not so much on innate, objective looks, as much as they do on what a man does with what he has.

Of course there are plenty of women who will judge on an objective, Hollywood-inspired scale, but there are plenty more who judge based on an individual’s presentation of his natural self.
I’m not sure about ‘Final Word’. But I think we all know looks matter. Those ‘with looks’ play a different game than those ‘without looks’. I honestly wonder if ‘looks’ guys can really give advice to ‘lookless’ guys and vice versa. Looks are a lot. But not everything.
 

Robert28

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
3,024
Reaction score
2,463
Here’s what I’ve learned about looks. They matter. However, the average looking girl might not consider you attractive or “her type” at all and friendzone you, whereas the girl who’s a 8 or 9 thinks you are CUTE and exactly her type. I’ve had that exact thing happen to me. Friendzoned hard and made a fool of by a girl who’s a 6 on her best day, made me feel like I was the ugliest dude on earth. Then I met 3 girls consecutively that were WAY above her looks wise and I was their type all the way.
 

Serenity

Moderator
Joined
Aug 19, 2013
Messages
3,594
Reaction score
2,918
Age
29
Location
Eye of the storm
It's men who care the most about how the opposite sex looks. It's common for men to assume women think the same way, most of them don't. As you say Atom, if a man tries to look the best he can with what he has then it's usually good enough.

The reason this question is debated endlessly is because the answer is not a clear yes or no. The answer is more like yes, but it's not what will make or break her attraction. You just have to look good enough, most of the time it will just get you from repulsive to neutral, you'll have to talk good to get from neutral to attractive.

Men are different. While women may overlook physical flaws for a good personality, men may overlook personality flaws for good looks. There's an abundance of stories on this forum illustrating that, all the guys who let massive red flags slide because "she's hot". Women on the other hand may very well have a blast fvcking a short chubby bald dude if he has an awesome personality that radiates confidence and IDGAF (not the insecure low self-esteem personality that usually goes along with that look).
 

Atom Smasher

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
8,075
Reaction score
4,787
Age
63
Location
The 7th Dimension
For men, a woman’s looks is 80% of his evaluation of her. Women, however, are wired to evaluate men on a much broader spectrum. Therefore, looks carries less weight.

The answer to the question, “Do looks matter?” is “Yes, to a degree”. That’s good news for men. As I said in my OP, women tend to tick off the “looks” box if they see that the man presents himself up to his potential.

Some guys here obsess about “How much is enough”, which is an unnecessary complication. Dres well, groom well, and be reasonably fit and you will have no further problem with the looks issue. To be attractive to most women, you most certainly don’t need to be ripped. Just being reasonably fit gets you in the game with decent-looking women.

Once you’ve learned to present yourself to your potential, any hang ups about looks is in your own head.

I’m convinced that very often, men receive IOIs from women that go completely over their heads. Women think they are sending obvious signals, when in fact these signals are far from obvious to us men.

We will only appeal to a small subset of women because women tend to fall for types. We each fit into a few types, but men can never be universally attractive like women can. No matter how fit and attractive we think we are, women judge us by a multitude of metrics.

Since attraction boils down to how you make a woman feel, the thing to do is to get the initial barrier to entry taken care of, and that’s pretty easily handled.

Because women’s looks are so vitally important to us, we imagine that women assign the same weight to looks that we do. It’s entirely possible to get one’s foot in the door with average looks. A man of average looks who maxes his potential is far ahead of the average dumpy guy.

When you present yourself as someone who respects himself, and have decent conversational skills, women will tend to rate you WAY higher In looks than you might objectively be.

I advise every man to consider the fact that while we assign 90% of attraction to looks, women assign only maybe 60%.

I’ve leveraged that principle. I suppose I’m objectively a “7” on a good day. Maybe I’m even being overly optimistic with that number. I’m only guessing. However, the projection of my character makes me appear as an 8.5 to 9 to a good number of women because I leverage their emotion and imagination.
 

image

Put away your credit card.

You can now read our detailed guide to women and dating for free - Right Here!

Bigpapa

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Nov 17, 2020
Messages
496
Reaction score
404
Age
121
I’m not sure about ‘Final Word’. But I think we all know looks matter. Those ‘with looks’ play a different game than those ‘without looks’. I honestly wonder if ‘looks’ guys can really give advice to ‘lookless’ guys and vice versa. Looks are a lot. But not everything.
the easiest way to gain points if you are not naturally a good looking guy is to have a really hot body and take care of yourself more than on average and have a really good fashion sense
 

King Lion

Don Juan
Joined
Nov 18, 2020
Messages
104
Reaction score
91
Age
50
'Every hoe ha dem stick a bush' - Jamaican Proverb

Looks don't matter - There is someone for everyone.
 

Mauser96

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 28, 2012
Messages
5,371
Reaction score
2,850
Put 10 men in a room.

Let one woman walk in. She will prefer one of the 10 based solely on looks.

There is no denying looks matter. It is hardwired into all of us. If you are grossly overweight, you lose 90% of your options.

Having said that, I always felt you maximize the things you have control over.

For example, I lost alot of hair so started shaving my head at age 40. I don't believe it has hurt my success with women at all......but who is to say? In any event, I don't worry about it, because it is beyond my control.

What is in my control? My body, fitness level, body fat, clothes, personality, degree of skill in the bedroom.

Those are the things I focus on.
 
Top