the bonus effect of looks

[The Sperminator]

The original poster is a genius. How long did it take you to discover this?

 

[bigjohnson]

I maintained the original idea while simplifying.

In other words you constructed a strawman. Precisely.

 

[NickBe]

I agree with Deus looks matter but you should not walk around thinking that they are the only thing that matters.

 

[Nighthawk]

Deus, scenario 1 will be a failure if you are too worried about her opinion. Can't you approach knowing there's a chance you might not be her type?

Reverse-engineering the opinion that looks aren't a factor to fit your personal fears and insecurities does not a logical argument make.

 

[Alphamale1821]

More to the point, almost nothing is black-and-white all-or-nothing. For all practical purposes no real guy has zero game, no real person is absolutely hideous, no real person is so handsome chicks swoon (except maybe me, lol) and so forth. Good looks is an edge, more is better. Money is an edge, more is better. Game is an edge, more is better.

Be all you can, improve what you can, deal with the rest.

Excatly finally someone else who speaks some sense. To bad half of the idiots are just beating this topic with a dead horse and just talking out of thier ass with no logic or sense.

 

[ricorico]

Let's say for the sake of argument that looks DO matter, ok? Great.

Scenario 1
So here I am, walking around the bookstore, looking for a target. I see a really good-looking girl...let's say an HB 8.5. Do I approach? Well, looks matter...so am I good-looking enough for her?

**** 10 seconds later ****

Oh, man. She's walking out of the store, now. Oh well, I probably wasn't good-looking enough for her anyway.
(Quote)

Rico:
Deus are you kidding me???? What the hell do you think a girl in this situation is? A mind reader? Girls rarely approach and if a gu is really good looking think he has lots of girls already.

So why don't you approach the 8.5 babe? Because looks don't matter? Of course they do, but you did the same thing she did.NOTHING!!!! So should she walk away and conclude because you "the guy" did'nt approach her,she is #1. Not pretty enough, or #2. Looks don't matter to you or #3. You are intimidated by her and therefore did not approach #4. You are expecting her to approach because you are such a hunk.
Most likely she will be right in 1 of those 4 choices. But you have made yourself the mind reader for why she didn't approach.


Does a guy with a great resume say education does'nt matter because he never applies for a job, therefore looks at guys who apply with less credentials and succeed as proof of his theory? Or does a guy with a great resume but lousy personality go on to say "personality" is all that matters in getting a job?

Without a great resume it's still possible to get in the door, but you have to try MUCH harder to do it. You also have to try much harder to impress without the great resume. But having great resume gets you in the door a lot easier and a great personality and intelligence keeps you there. The more positives you have in life, the easier it is for you all around.

Even a drop dead gorgeous girl with a lousy personality will have issues as many guys will use her to build up clout and their self esteem. But few will put up with her forever. And guys are much more likely to be looks oriented but most of us aren't that desperate.

 

[bigjohnson]

Thus, we can safely assume that the poster is equating ....

No, you can't, and if you do and then write up a summary of your assumption that's the definition of a strawman argument. If you require something more precise you need to ask the opposition to clarify their position, then argue against or agree with their clearly defined position.

Excatly finally someone else who speaks some sense. To bad half of the idiots are just beating this topic with a dead horse and just talking out of thier ass with no logic or sense.

Well, sometimes it seems worth fighting the good fight, other times I want to let them all just wander off and be miserable. Thanks though.

Does a guy with a great resume say education does'nt matter because he never applies for a job, therefore looks at guys who apply with less credentials and succeed as proof of his theory? Or does a guy with a great resume but lousy personality go on to say "personality" is all that matters in getting a job?

As much as it pains me, that's a really good analogy.

 

[Nighthawk]

False dichotomy! Just don't worry about it!

 

[bigjohnson]

No offense to the original poster, but the argument was not written very clearly. I simply restated it to trim the fat.

Any way you want to phrase it, what you're doing is taking what they said, changing it from the original and arguing your version. If you don't change the original you can just use a quote. If you can't use a quote, you are not arguing their statement anymore.

It's dead easy to understand.

 

[bigjohnson]

You are saying that I changed his statement when I did not.

If it's not a quote then you changed it. Was it or was it not a direct word for word quote?

 

[Nighthawk]

Why can't you just let it go, bro? So what if somebody makes a "strawman argument" over the Internet? So what if that somebody disagrees with you? Let it go.

Irony... too much, can't take it...

 

[bigjohnson]

I maintained the original idea while restating his post in a concise fashion.

That's the point - I read his post as meaning something completely different than you restated. Neither you nor I can say for sure that you did or did not represent his argument fairly, so the ONLY person who can make a certain statement that you are not arguing a strawman is wu himself, but until he confirms that what you argued against was his point you're out in the cold.

I'm pretty sure "loser" doesn't mean "unattractive guy whom we know nothing else about" in the context he used it. Rather I read it as being some poor bastard who has little to nothing going for him including but not limited to looks. That is pretty much the typical definition for "loser", isn't it?

But then that doesn't fit with what you like to argue about, nor is it an easy position to refute. Is it? :woo:

The only case I'm aware of where this sort of tactic is part of a logical argument is where you are systematically tearing down the other side and this is part of the deconstruction, but you didn't go anywhere near doing the rest of the work for that sort of proof.

So what if somebody makes a "strawman argument" over the Internet?

Well that's a little progress.

So what if that somebody disagrees with you? Let it go.

Physician, heal thyself.

 

[bigjohnson]

Loser is irrelevant to the point he was making.

It looked pretty central to the statement you quoted and then altered. Excluding discussions with you, I've not used the phrase "strawman argument" more than a few times in the last 12 months. Congrats.

 

[bigjohnson]

.... the main idea lies ....

How can you be so sure? It wasn't YOUR idea that you quoted after all, unless you have 2 accounts and were in fact already arguing with yourself.

 

[bigjohnson]

So you're equating "seduction techniques" with a "pickup line"?

If you're so sure, why the "?" then? Because you were setting up a strawman.

I do agree w/Deus that you shouldn't limit by only going after girls uglier than yourself. Don't reject yourself a head of time .... look your best. It makes everything easier. .... accept what you cannot change and have the courage to change what you can. Don't delude yourself into thinking looks don't matter.

Here is his stance in his own words (what a concept) and I don't see him saying ANYTHING like what your reading comprehension converted his position into.

 

[Nighthawk]

Deus, you can't get him for over-use of the phrase 'straw man' because you caused him to reiterate the phrase to prove your argument skills were misleading. So suck it up.

 

[bigjohnson]

Do you count straw men jumping over fences when you go to sleep?

Look! Over there! Shiny!

 

[bigjohnson]

It's too consistent to not nail him .....

Pot. Kettle. Black.

 

[Nighthawk]

Deus, do you use your tenacious argumentative skills on women, or just us e-folk? Because they would dig it, I promise. It really doesn't matter whether you're right or wrong.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

WTF is wrong with this damn "call" button? I keep pressing it and not one MOD shows up!!! :cuss: